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1 minute ago, NewEra said:

You have no idea.  This is a fact. Stop pretending please

 

It is a fact that he had the injury. It is to me an open question whether it significantly impaired his ability to perform. Did you see any visible evidence that the injury compromised his play? I didn’t is all I’m saying. When asked about it following the game he said it was the sort of thing players have to deal with and play through, especially late in the year. 

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5 hours ago, eball said:

 

Dude, relax.  I’m tired of all of the superlatives that get thrown around after the latest performance by all of these guys.  Now Tampa is the greatest team ever and will dominate for years.  Bottom line is Mahomes looked like crap last night, so everyone can take their foot off the “greatest to play the game” talk for a little while.  Allen did more with less, that’s a fact.

Yeah agree. However, as much as I don't like Brady, due to much of the same reasons as many of us here, I definitely respect him. He is truly the greatest QB of all time. I don't think PM will accomplish what Brady has. Maybe not even half, as far as championships are concerned anyway.

 

The ppl that do want to say PM is the greatest to play are really jumping the gun by a long shot imo. I really don't see anyone that dethrones Brady, ever most likely. And with the game always changing which is in favor for the QB's for the most part.

 

Brady was winning back in 2001 on up. Back then the game was still what it used to be, for the most part anyway. So yeah, imo he is hands down the true GOAT and has surpassed those in that conversation like Montana, etc. Personally I don't see how it can even be argued anymore.

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Just now, starrymessenger said:

 

It is a fact that he had the injury. It is to me an open question whether it significantly impaired his ability to perform. Did you see any visible evidence that the injury compromised his play? I didn’t is all I’m saying. When asked about it following the game he said it was the sort of thing players have to deal with and play through, especially late in the year. 

You rewatching the game and not being able to tell how much the injury affected him means nothing.  It’s not even worth discussing.  Sorry, no offense.  

 

I can’t pretend to know how the injury affected him.  I know that people were talking about Josh Allens shoulder injury and using it as an excuse as to why he played poorly.  I wasn’t able to look at him and tell whether or not it was affecting him.  The thing I know:  i wouldn’t be able to tell if an injury isn’t having a negative affect on a player by watching a game.  Players fight through pain and don’t always show it when it hurts 

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2 hours ago, Logic said:


Nah.

We're poking fun at one particular message board poster who joined this board specifically to talk about how great Mahomes is and how great the Chiefs are. 

All we've heard for three+ years now is how great #15 is and how silly the Bills were for passing on him. Pointing it out and trolling us about it were literally Zero's entire reasons for joining this forum, which he has admitted multiple times. He eventually pivoted to talking about how great Allen has become, but only in a condescending, pat-on-the-head,  "I'm glad your team at least got a good QB out of the trade so I don't have to pity you so much" type of way.

So yeah, we're damn sure gonna talk a little smack back to him on the ONE occasion that his savior QB actually looked mortal. If a Mahomes fanboy troll can't be teased a bit when his QB gets stomped in the Super Bowl, then why does the internet even exist?

I agree. No one is by any means  "making fun" of the Chiefs. They were pretty dirty in a few situations against the Bills and that also is a reason this is like karma. Also would like to add about the "poking fun" part as some call it, is for those ones on that board that are so rude and don't know how to act.

 

Yeah it's great they were bought back down to earth.

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29 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Regarding PM’s turf toe I tried to focus on his footwork both running and in his throwing mechanics. I saw nothing to suggest that he was in any way significantly impaired by his injury. Mahomes was pretty much the same guy we are used to seeing. What yesterday’s game shows, and what we already know, is that no QB, not Mahomes or Allen or Brady can survive continuous jailbreaks (especially not Brady).

 

This is very true. Brady turns to steaming hot garbage if his pocket is pushed back into him and he starts to get dirty. That is why NE's offensive line coach for years was one of the absolute best at taking middling talent and turning them into a virtually impenetrable wall - that and the invisible holding-infraction begone zone that surrounded them.

 

Interesting that more Bills fans are seeing that the rare talented offensive weapons are good to have, but most teams that go the distance have good-to-exceptional  players in their trenches and have been built from the inside-out. Tampa Bay does not have a Hill - no teams really do. Beane called those kind of players "unicorns" that you just have to stop with good schemes and bracketing.

 

Now that we face the offseason more Bills fans and the brass at OBD are echoing that sentiment about improving our trenches. Shore up with size and talent our o-line from guard to guard, and we need to shore up the interior front 4. I am still not sure if we need to overhaul our defensive ends quite yet... if we get good push up the middle, my bet is that we get a lot more production out of the crop we have.

 

Also, a well-rounded TE who can block and can run the seam and catch the ball seems to be an ingredient common to championship-caliber teams. Interesting how many scoff at the importance of the position when the proof seems to play out every post season.

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Success said:

Mahomes was actually spectacular in one of the worst SB performances a QB has had in recent years.  Some of those throws while he was falling down were just jaw dropping.  His receivers weren't helping him.

 

He did hit his receivers literally in the face on two rediculous diving / falling throws. 

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7 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Yeah agree. However, as much as I don't like Brady, due to much of the same reasons as many of us here, I definitely respect him. He is truly the greatest QB of all time. I don't think PM will accomplish what Brady has. Maybe not even half, as far as championships are concerned anyway.

 

The ppl that do want to say PM is the greatest to play are really jumping the gun by a long shot imo. I really don't see anyone that dethrones Brady, ever most likely. And with the game always changing which is in favor for the QB's for the most part.

 

Brady was winning back in 2001 on up. Back then the game was still what it used to be, for the most part anyway. So yeah, imo he is hands down the true GOAT and has surpassed those in that conversation like Montana, etc. Personally I don't see how it can even be argued anymore.

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Brady is the goat.  He is for sure.  Mahomes has been to 2 Super Bowls and 1 AFCCG in his only 3 years as a starter.  If there is ever going to be a player that will rival him, Mahomes has a good a chance as anyone.

 

People were talking about Lebron as a possible successor to jordan early in his career....before he even won ONE title.  It was premature, but the talent was evident and if someone were to take the mantle for MJ, lebron was a great option.  Almost 20 years later and lebron has played himself into a legit conversation and he’s not done yet.  I still think MJ is the best, but the conversation is becoming more and more realistic.  
 

Hard to say what the future holds, but I agree with you that Brady will be nearly impossible to take down considering the sport they play.  Brady’s win last night may have made it impossible for Mahomes to overtake him.  He may have to beat him in the next 1-2 SBs (and win a few more) to even have a chance

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2 hours ago, Logic said:


Nah.

We're poking fun at one particular message board poster who joined this board specifically to talk about how great Mahomes is and how great the Chiefs are. 

All we've heard for three+ years now is how great #15 is and how silly the Bills were for passing on him. Pointing it out and trolling us about it were literally Zero's entire reasons for joining this forum, which he has admitted multiple times. He eventually pivoted to talking about how great Allen has become, but only in a condescending, pat-on-the-head,  "I'm glad your team at least got a good QB out of the trade so I don't have to pity you so much" type of way.

So yeah, we're damn sure gonna talk a little smack back to him on the ONE occasion that his savior QB actually looked mortal. If a Mahomes fanboy troll can't be teased a bit when his QB gets stomped in the Super Bowl, then why does the internet even exist?

This 100%! 

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6 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

 

It is a fact that he had the injury. It is to me an open question whether it significantly impaired his ability to perform. Did you see any visible evidence that the injury compromised his play? I didn’t is all I’m saying. When asked about it following the game he said it was the sort of thing players have to deal with and play through, especially late in the year. 

 

FWIW Florio and Simms were talking about it and felt that it had influenced the play choice and the speed with which Mahomes was playing.

 

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2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You rewatching the game and not being able to tell how much the injury affected him means nothing.  It’s not even worth discussing.  Sorry, no offense.  

 

I can’t pretend to know how the injury affected him.  I know that people were talking about Josh Allens shoulder injury and using it as an excuse as to why he played poorly.  I wasn’t able to look at him and tell whether or not it was affecting him.  The thing I know:  i wouldn’t be able to tell if an injury isn’t having a negative affect on a player by watching a game.  Players fight through pain and don’t always show it when it hurts 

Sometimes it is abundantly, visibly and plainly evident that a player’s ability to perform has been compromised by injury - Beasely, Brown, Davis. All I’m saying is that IMO that was not the case with PM yesterday. He ran for 475 yards (albeit not north-south). Playing with pain does not always result in a significant deterioration of the level of play. I suspect that his problems yesterday had more to do with the absence of his LT and a very talented D implementing and equipped to execute a good gameplan.

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Just now, starrymessenger said:

Sometimes it is abundantly, visibly and plainly evident that a player’s ability to perform has been compromised by injury - Beasely, Brown, Davis. All I’m saying is that IMO that was not the case with PM yesterday. He ran for 475 yards (albeit not north-south). Playing with pain does not always result in a significant deterioration of the level of play. I suspect that his problems yesterday had more to do with the absence of his LT and a very talented D implementing and equipped to execute a good gameplan.

Yes.....but it is never abundantly, visibly and plainly evident that an injury is having no negative affect on a players performance......even if he’s having an amazing game.  

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6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Brady is the goat.  He is for sure.  Mahomes has been to 2 Super Bowls and 1 AFCCG in his only 3 years as a starter.  If there is ever going to be a player that will rival him, Mahomes has a good a chance as anyone.

 

People were talking about Lebron as a possible successor to jordan early in his career....before he even won ONE title.  It was premature, but the talent was evident and if someone were to take the mantle for MJ, lebron was a great option.  Almost 20 years later and lebron has played himself into a legit conversation and he’s not done yet.  I still think MJ is the best, but the conversation is becoming more and more realistic.  
 

Hard to say what the future holds, but I agree with you that Brady will be nearly impossible to take down considering the sport they play.  Brady’s win last night may have made it impossible for Mahomes to overtake him.  He may have to beat him in the next 1-2 SBs (and win a few more) to even have a chance

Oh yeah, now at this point and after last night for sure not many are. Was referring to before when it was talked about. Not long ago at all actually, have seen conversations about it as recent as a few months ago.  Just saying it definitely can't be argued now.

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2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

FWIW Florio and Simms were talking about it and felt that it had influenced the play choice and the speed with which Mahomes was playing.

 

Could well be. They are certainly more qualified than me to comment on that (especially Simms, who played the position). But some folks are of the view that they should not even be speculating/pretending to opine on that question. With that I disagree.

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5 hours ago, 2ForMacAdoo said:

It certainly wasn't all Brady. TB's front 7 is just dominating. But TB had virtually the same defense the previous year and got nowhere with Jameis Winston. As much as I hate to admit it, Brady had plenty to do with getting them to the big game and winning it all.

They also didn't have Gronk, AB or Fournette

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1 minute ago, Motorin' said:

He did hit his receivers literally in the face on two rediculous diving / falling throws. 

 

I won't deny that sideline toss was ridiculous, but folks look at the end of the play and discount the kind of effort and talent KC has at receiver too. Reminded me of that sideline toss Murray made when falling away when we played them that was nearly caught in the corner of their end zone. 

 

It was amazing that Mahomes put that much on it and in a spot that only his receiver could make a play on, but it had to be a diving awesome play by the receiver on that scramble drill as well. Would have been a toss and catch that would have had a place in NFL films annals forever.

 

I think Beane and his staff have drastically improved their approach towards receivers, mirroring successful teams like KC. You have to have receivers that are productive pass catchers with sticky hands first and foremost. Their other measurables and times in the "underwear Olympics" are the second thing you evaluate.  Successful receivers have to find ways to get open and adjust to throws and make ridiculous catches because most QBs these days have to throw off-platform on the move.

 

That is why ol' Kelvin Benjamin did not make it in KC, on some critical plays he either short-armed them thinking he was going to take a hit (he was), or Mahomes hit him in the face mask on a slightly imperfect pass where he did not adjust his route at all.

 

Bad receivers make even great QB's look pedestrian. 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Oh yeah, now at this point and after last night for sure not many are. Was referring to before when it was talked about. Not long ago at all actually, have seen conversations about it as recent as a few months ago.  Just saying it definitely can't be argued now.

Who were people saying is the goat in their rebuttals?  It’s been a moot point for awhile now I thought.  Even the most defiant Brady haters came around when he got #6 imo.  

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25 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I don’t think anyone is arguing that Brady is the goat.  He is for sure.  Mahomes has been to 2 Super Bowls and 1 AFCCG in his only 3 years as a starter.  If there is ever going to be a player that will rival him, Mahomes has a good a chance as anyone.

 

People were talking about Lebron as a possible successor to jordan early in his career....before he even won ONE title.  It was premature, but the talent was evident and if someone were to take the mantle for MJ, lebron was a great option.  Almost 20 years later and lebron has played himself into a legit conversation and he’s not done yet.  I still think MJ is the best, but the conversation is becoming more and more realistic.  
 

Hard to say what the future holds, but I agree with you that Brady will be nearly impossible to take down considering the sport they play.  Brady’s win last night may have made it impossible for Mahomes to overtake him.  He may have to beat him in the next 1-2 SBs (and win a few more) to even have a chance

Also just want to add, I recall many people ( not necessarily here, although I'd bet some have here) saying, "I bet he can't do it and win another ring on a different team". Things similar  to that.

 

Well he did, and at 43 years old for that matter. I've despised the guy for 20 years like many and have called him a cheater and all that good stuff many times. Also I'm well aware the Bucs have pretty damn good players on offense that was a huge help, but still impressive.

11 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Who were people saying is the goat in their rebuttals?  It’s been a moot point for awhile now I thought.  Even the most defiant Brady haters came around when he got #6 imo.  

Oh dude, I've heard many people in person in my area, and seen quite a few conversations here about that subject in the past. Fairly recent past. I mean I can't tell you exactly who those posters were at this point, but it was argued by some.

 

Also you're probably correct that it was very likely the Brady haters saying this. Now even those can't really dispute it now though.

Edited by Patrick_Duffy
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47 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Regarding PM’s turf toe I tried to focus on his footwork both running and in his throwing mechanics. I saw nothing to suggest that he was in any way significantly impaired by his injury. Mahomes was pretty much the same guy we are used to seeing. What yesterday’s game shows, and what we already know, is that no QB, not Mahomes or Allen or Brady can survive continuous jailbreaks (especially not Brady).

 

8 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Could well be. They are certainly more qualified than me to comment on that (especially Simms, who played the position). But some folks are of the view that they should not even be speculating/pretending to opine on that question. With that I disagree.

 

I’m of the view that you have no clue whether or not Mahomes injury had an affect on his play and speculating that he was the same qb we always see is just that, speculation.  
 

Your post was insinuating that his injury had no affect on his play, when the truth is, you have no idea.

7 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Also just want to add, I recall many people ( not necessarily here, although I'd bet some have here) saying, "I bet he can't do it and win another ring on a different team". Things similar  to that.

 

Well he did, and at 43 years old for that matter. I've despised the guy for 20 years like many and have called him a cheater and all that good stuff many times. Also I'm well aware the Bucs have pretty damn good players on offense that was a huge help, but still impressive.

Absolutely.  Tommy boy did a great job in picking the right spot.  Great o and a great d.  The Bucs front 7 makes me jealous 

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Probably won't see zerovolts to get his perspective til maybe a couple more days. Speaking for myself, after the frustrating Bills loss I didn't want to be bothered for a day or 2. Was the way Bills lost though that I was most frustrated with.

 

Anyways, Chiefs lost in a rough way also, worse than Bills. So he may be letting it sink in for a bit.

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