The future for both parties and realignment

[Big Blitz]

Realignment has happened and it culminated in the s..t show that is 2020.  

 

The GOP needs to embrace the following in a "rebrand."

 

Classical liberals. in the truist sense of the meaning.  Think Thomas Jefferson.  Not Josef Stalin.  We forward think.  Enough of the Big Lie of the last 20 years that the Dems are the forward thinkers.  A New Center Right coalition must reach out to everyone turned off by what they're seeing on that ....other team.  

 

The realignment that has happened which the "left" doesn't understand or realize has happened to them, "Liberals" that came of age from 1970 to 2000 have not been liberals working for the working man.  They have morphed into big government statists seeking power and control that want you to think they represent you.  By you know, making you dependent on them.  That isn't forward thinking.  That isn't thinking at all.  And it might be the biggest lie believed by far too many in America.  Why would you want people happy and successful when your base relies on poverty and misery? 

 

The Democrats today are supporting suppression of free thought by simply remaining complicit as Silicon Valley decides the thought.  All working for Democrats of course so great deal for them.  But they have deliberately gone silent on the culture wars in which one side (their base) works night and day to cancel someone.  Anyone right of center.  

 

But that spectrum has "realigned" and doesn't exist because there is no left.  If there are any true liberals, they would call this out.  But they don't.  See fascists don't see themselves as being on the ideological spectrum.  They thought they were above it and their ideas were superior to everyone else.  Whatever got them to achieve their ends.  And you remained loyal to the State.  Does that sound anything like the people the Ds are calling fascists?   

 

The Democrats in America are so quick to want to call Trump and Republicans the fascists but why?  Who has been oppressed and silenced by the right?  Who has lost a job because they support Biden?  Which side feels like it can't even say anything?   Who is out there calling for lists of Trump voters to be scorned and not get a lick of media coverage not named Breitbart to call it out?  One of them with a blue check mark and has an actual job as a jOuRnAliSt actually asked if Trump voters need re education camps.  Obama sucked as president.  By I never once thought of his voters the way the left does Trump voters.  All 74 million of us and however many more are on flash drives somewhere.  

 

 

The New Right, that's what we are, its a hybrid of populism and classical liberalism.  Yes it can be both.  A big tent center right coalition.  And it needs proper spokesmen.  Their side would say spokesperson.  Yea we're done with 1984.  So the right can do this because its sound, and because the left has gone off the reservation.  In their 1984 universe that word is probably offensive and triggering.    

 

DC has a role.  But it needs to be limited.  The playing field in America is an equal one so long as you adhere to a few simple principles.  The most important being a respect for individual and minority rights.  That the country and all it's people are generally good and want to get along but the impediment to that is the Establishment media, and this new fascist new left.  

 

The Statists (big government control) vs the New Center Right (classical liberals).  That's the realignment.  Its official.  GOP needs to find a way to make that work.  Conservative values are obviously still a hallmark.  But it's not how you run in 2020 and beyond by saying "I'm a true conservative."  Appeal to the working man.  Have ideas that resonate.  And yes, you are going to have to do a few things that will absolutely get the sane moderate on board.  You're going to have to increase taxes on the wealthy.  And you are going to have to support renewables.  AND fossil fuels.  I'm sorry but I'm failing to see why unwavering support for fossil fuels is conservative.  Who cares?   Explain that transitions that won't devastate our economy are taking place where we can.  The Energy industry is doing a lot of this on it's own.  When they ask you if you believe in global warming you have to say yes, but that doesn't mean we just drop fossil fuels and end CO2 emissions because we can't.  As part of all infrastructure projects going green should not be a controversial decision so long as the costs to the working man aren't costs but savings.  The ship has sailed.  Just embrace it with small government principles.  Not crony capitalism.  

 

We are still a party that supports life but if you arent all aboard we won't not vote for you.  We've done it all the time.  The other side?  Yea there are zero pro life Democrats.  Let that sink in.  And we absolutely need to be a legit border hawk party.  Asylum does not include "I want to come to America bc my life is hard in Mexico."  That doesn't meet the criteria by law of asylum the media wont tell you about.  Come in. Legally.  Speak and learn English and assimilate.  That doesn't mean abandon your heritage.  It means embrace Western Civilization while you're at it or no, you aren't welcome here.  You came here to be an American not to live in America.  And the reason you need years before citizenship and the right to vote is because you may not be familiar with the West and what we are heirs to.  Assimilate.  

 

Appeal to the people that feel the Democrat Party has abandoned the Constitution in exchange for power to be just like China.  That resonates.  And yep, run as many minorities and women that understand this message and can articulate it all.  The voter likes to see diversity but our people will actually be intelligent forward thinkers, not just there to find ways to use government to screw up everything it touches and certainly not ignore the concerns of and writing off of half the country.

 

 

Thanks for reading.  Either flame away.  Ignore.  Run with it.  I don't care.  What I do care about is this country and my kids and yours futures.  And the dynamic of half the country spending all day trying to figure out how to dunk on the other half.  That a nasty anti American sentiment has permeated I'd say at least 30% of Democrats.  Its absolutely fascist.  That has to end by being beaten locally and statewide coast to coast.  

[shoshin]

This fantasy is nice but if you’re think picking an amoral man with no belief system is step one in convincing me that this is the new right, good luck. The right in the last four years lowered taxes and increased spending so color me skeptical that you are painting a dream already realized. 
 

The path forward to anything like the one you describe is to dump the extremes (Qanons and AOCs) and find reasonable people who can cut deals to move to anything like what you describe. 
 

Joining, not division, is needed. 

[oldmanfan]

I’m all for some of the stuff listed towards the end of the OP.  But what the Republican Party needs to embrace is actual Republican principals instead of bowing down to the man-child sitting in the White House for a few more weeks.  When Republicans stand for things like fiscal conservatism again they’ll have a functional party.

 

It’s also time to just ignore the lunatics on the fringes of both parties.  The vast majority of people in this country are in the center; time for them to take charge.

[TBBills]

If you cared about your kids you wouldn't be a nutbag.

The OP is the same idiot that posted the danish mask bull#### and never read the article just trusted some crazy guy on Twitter that retweeted it.... Same person that didn't think wearing masks mattered

[Coach Tuesday]

If the GOP embraces classical liberalism they’ll get my vote again.  Unfortunately I think libertarianism is becoming less and less mainstream and I don’t see any way Republicans can cement a majority by promising to cut social security, open the borders and abolish trade restrictions.  That would be a 180-degree flip from the Trump populist platform.  
 

And I’ll add - libertarianism and “states rights” don’t really coexist.  Most of the GOP base believe strongly that states should have the power to enact their own broad restrictions on liberty (drug laws, abortion laws, voter qualification requirements etc.).  That is directly at odds with true libertarianism.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Coach Tuesday

[SoTier]

3 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

Realignment has happened and it culminated in the s..t show that is 2020.  

 

The GOP needs to embrace the following in a "rebrand."

 

Classical liberals. in the truist sense of the meaning.  Think Thomas Jefferson.  Not Josef Stalin.  We forward think.  Enough of the Big Lie of the last 20 years that the Dems are the forward thinkers.  A New Center Right coalition must reach out to everyone turned off by what they're seeing on that ....other team.  

 

The realignment that has happened which the "left" doesn't understand or realize has happened to them, "Liberals" that came of age from 1970 to 2000 have not been liberals working for the working man.  They have morphed into big government statists seeking power and control that want you to think they represent you.  By you know, making you dependent on them.  That isn't forward thinking.  That isn't thinking at all.  And it might be the biggest lie believed by far too many in America.  Why would you want people happy and successful when your base relies on poverty and misery? 

 

The Democrats today are supporting suppression of free thought by simply remaining complicit as Silicon Valley decides the thought.  All working for Democrats of course so great deal for them.  But they have deliberately gone silent on the culture wars in which one side (their base) works night and day to cancel someone.  Anyone right of center.  

 

But that spectrum has "realigned" and doesn't exist because there is no left.  If there are any true liberals, they would call this out.  But they don't.  See fascists don't see themselves as being on the ideological spectrum.  They thought they were above it and their ideas were superior to everyone else.  Whatever got them to achieve their ends.  And you remained loyal to the State.  Does that sound anything like the people the Ds are calling fascists?   

 

The Democrats in America are so quick to want to call Trump and Republicans the fascists but why?  Who has been oppressed and silenced by the right?  Who has lost a job because they support Biden?  Which side feels like it can't even say anything?   Who is out there calling for lists of Trump voters to be scorned and not get a lick of media coverage not named Breitbart to call it out?  One of them with a blue check mark and has an actual job as a jOuRnAliSt actually asked if Trump voters need re education camps.  Obama sucked as president.  By I never once thought of his voters the way the left does Trump voters.  All 74 million of us and however many more are on flash drives somewhere.  

 

 

The New Right, that's what we are, its a hybrid of populism and classical liberalism.  Yes it can be both.  A big tent center right coalition.  And it needs proper spokesmen.  Their side would say spokesperson.  Yea we're done with 1984.  So the right can do this because its sound, and because the left has gone off the reservation.  In their 1984 universe that word is probably offensive and triggering.    

 

DC has a role.  But it needs to be limited.  The playing field in America is an equal one so long as you adhere to a few simple principles.  The most important being a respect for individual and minority rights.  That the country and all it's people are generally good and want to get along but the impediment to that is the Establishment media, and this new fascist new left.  

 

The Statists (big government control) vs the New Center Right (classical liberals).  That's the realignment.  Its official.  GOP needs to find a way to make that work.  Conservative values are obviously still a hallmark.  But it's not how you run in 2020 and beyond by saying "I'm a true conservative."  Appeal to the working man.  Have ideas that resonate.  And yes, you are going to have to do a few things that will absolutely get the sane moderate on board.  You're going to have to increase taxes on the wealthy.  And you are going to have to support renewables.  AND fossil fuels.  I'm sorry but I'm failing to see why unwavering support for fossil fuels is conservative.  Who cares?   Explain that transitions that won't devastate our economy are taking place where we can.  The Energy industry is doing a lot of this on it's own.  When they ask you if you believe in global warming you have to say yes, but that doesn't mean we just drop fossil fuels and end CO2 emissions because we can't.  As part of all infrastructure projects going green should not be a controversial decision so long as the costs to the working man aren't costs but savings.  The ship has sailed.  Just embrace it with small government principles.  Not crony capitalism.  

 

We are still a party that supports life but if you arent all aboard we won't not vote for you.  We've done it all the time.  The other side?  Yea there are zero pro life Democrats.  Let that sink in.  And we absolutely need to be a legit border hawk party.  Asylum does not include "I want to come to America bc my life is hard in Mexico."  That doesn't meet the criteria by law of asylum the media wont tell you about.  Come in. Legally.  Speak and learn English and assimilate.  That doesn't mean abandon your heritage.  It means embrace Western Civilization while you're at it or no, you aren't welcome here.  You came here to be an American not to live in America.  And the reason you need years before citizenship and the right to vote is because you may not be familiar with the West and what we are heirs to.  Assimilate.  

 

Appeal to the people that feel the Democrat Party has abandoned the Constitution in exchange for power to be just like China.  That resonates.  And yep, run as many minorities and women that understand this message and can articulate it all.  The voter likes to see diversity but our people will actually be intelligent forward thinkers, not just there to find ways to use government to screw up everything it touches and certainly not ignore the concerns of and writing off of half the country.

 

 

Thanks for reading.  Either flame away.  Ignore.  Run with it.  I don't care.  What I do care about is this country and my kids and yours futures.  And the dynamic of half the country spending all day trying to figure out how to dunk on the other half.  That a nasty anti American sentiment has permeated I'd say at least 30% of Democrats.  Its absolutely fascist.  That has to end by being beaten locally and statewide coast to coast.  

 

This post is nothing more than a litany of popular RW social media "political theory" labels and memes that bear no resemblance to reality.   The fact is that the Republican Party has spent the last 40 years pretending to support limited government and fiscal responsibility when, in fact, Republican POTUS have repeatedly expanded federal power while exploding the deficit with reckless tax cuts that have disproportionately benefited the wealthiest Americans by shifting the tax burden from the wealthy to the middle and lower classes, creating an ever increasing chasm between the wealthiest 5% of the population and the rest of Americans.  

[Coach Tuesday]

2 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

This post is nothing more than a litany of popular RW social media "political theory" labels and memes that bear no resemblance to reality.   The fact is that the Republican Party has spent the last 40 years pretending to support limited government and fiscal responsibility when, in fact, Republican POTUS have repeatedly expanded federal power while exploding the deficit with reckless tax cuts that have disproportionately benefited the wealthiest Americans by shifting the tax burden from the wealthy to the middle and lower classes, creating an ever increasing chasm between the wealthiest 5% of the population and the rest of Americans.  

And you could say the exact same thing about Democrats, for years they’ve pretended to push progressive policies to favor the lower class but instead have enriched corporations, elites, and the bureaucratic lifers.  
 

Libertarianism produces harsh results but it might be the Least Worse Option.  And it’s a coherent set of principles - to quote Walter Sobchak, “At least it’s an ethos.”

[SoTier]

5 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

If the GOP embraces classical liberalism they’ll get my vote again.  Unfortunately I think libertarianism is becoming less and less mainstream and I don’t see any way Republicans can cement a majority by promising to cut social security, open the borders and abolish trade restrictions.  That would be a 180-degree flip from the Trump populist platform.  
 

And I’ll add - libertarianism and “states rights” don’t really coexist.  Most of the GOP base believe strongly that states should have the power to enact their own broad restrictions on liberty (drug laws, abortion laws, voter qualification requirements etc.).  That is directly at odds with true libertarianism.

 

Libertarianism is not a viable political blueprint for governing a diverse country of 330+ million people in the modern world -- any more than any other "isms" of the right or left.  Actually, "isms" have never been anything more than intellectual exercises which, when attempted to put into practice in the real world, have always morphed into authoritarian regimes of one type or another.

 

You are dead right on  "states rights".

[shoshin]

32 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

Libertarianism is not a viable political blueprint for governing a diverse country of 330+ million people in the modern world -- any more than any other "isms" of the right or left.  Actually, "isms" have never been anything more than intellectual exercises which, when attempted to put into practice in the real world, have always morphed into authoritarian regimes of one type or another.

 

You are dead right on  "states rights".

The Libertarian Party is a joke. 
 

Libertarian principles are not. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

I don't see either political party representing the interests of the majority of Americans.  They seem to cater to the extremists on the left and right. 

I think both parties are corrupt beyond repair both morally and ethically. 

I think corporations have too much power in our current system. 

I think the wealthy and powerful exert control no matter which party is in power. 

I think both parties have a penchant for getting into wars and conflicts that don't serve our interests but rather some special interest.

I think both parties are bankrupting the country through the accumulation of huge un-serviceable debts in order to buy votes and funnel government money to special interests while saddling future generations with the bill.  And the future is here now.

I think both presidential candidates are lifetime grifters and con artists. One feeding at the trough of the public treasury and selling influence for cash and the other a BS artist bilking and shaking down investors through the use of bankruptcy laws and shady side deals.

I think the people in the middle, whatever their race, or gender, or ethnicity, or religion, or other attributes and beliefs, that earn a paycheck or run a business, stay out of trouble, pay their bills, do the right thing, and keep the economy and society going get the shaft.  If they all went on strike for a week they could flush out the rats on both sides. 

 

I'd hope that moderates in both parties seeing common ground would break from both major parties and form a third party that would represent the middle ground where most people reside.  A true populist movement.  But this would take courage and vision.  Something in short supply at the moment. 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by All_Pro_Bills

[shoshin]

All_Pro, it’s hard to find the passionate middle by definition. It’s one of the challenges of the two party system our government is geared for that it can amplify the extremes. 

[Tiberius]

Love how "Libertarianism" makes a big come back as soon as a Democrat is elected president. 

 

Which country in the world is the premier Libertarian country to model off of? 

[oldmanfan]

8 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I don't see either political party representing the interests of the majority of Americans.  They seem to cater to the extremists on the left and right. 

I think both parties are corrupt beyond repair both morally and ethically. 

I think corporations have too much power in our current system. 

I think the wealthy and powerful exert control no matter which party is in power. 

I think both parties have a penchant for getting into wars and conflicts that don't serve our interests but rather some special interest.

I think both parties are bankrupting the country through the accumulation of huge un-serviceable debts in order to buy votes and funnel government money to special interests while saddling future generations with the bill.  And the future is here now.

I think both presidential candidates are lifetime grifters and con artists. One feeding at the trough of the public treasury and selling influence for cash and the other a BS artist bilking and shaking down investors through the use of bankruptcy laws and shady side deals.

I think the people in the middle, whatever their race, or gender, or ethnicity, or religion, or other attributes and beliefs, that earn a paycheck or run a business, stay out of trouble, pay their bills, do the right thing, and keep the economy and society going get the shaft.  If they all went on strike for a week they could flush out the rats on both sides. 

 

I'd hope that moderates in both parties seeing common ground would break from both major parties and form a third party that would represent the middle ground where most people reside.  A true populist movement.  But this would take courage and vision.  Something in short supply at the moment. 

 

 

I have advocated for the 537 party.  What this country desperately needs is 537 individuals, one for each Congressional district, one for each Senate seat, one each for President and Vic President to step up and say enough.  Those 537 would represent the center right and left, where most of the people are.  They might differ on specific policies, might be more liberal in social issues and more conservative on fiscal policy for example, but they would understand that they need to come together, debate, and then come to compromise and consensus to move the country forward.  They'd understand the value of term limits, and would work to actually get things done.

[Coach Tuesday]

7 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Love how "Libertarianism" makes a big come back as soon as a Democrat is elected president. 

 

Which country in the world is the premier Libertarian country to model off of? 

Estonia may be the closest.  And before you chuckle, they are way ahead of the game in terms of incorporating technology to enhance individual freedoms.  Want to see major demographic shifts in voting?  Let people vote from their iPhones.  They also have become a real hub for startups - a Silicon Valley of Eastern Europe.

[Iron Maiden]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

I’m all for some of the stuff listed towards the end of the OP.  But what the Republican Party needs to embrace is actual Republican principals instead of bowing down to the man-child sitting in the White House for a few more weeks.  When Republicans stand for things like fiscal conservatism again they’ll have a functional party.

 

It’s also time to just ignore the lunatics on the fringes of both parties.  The vast majority of people in this country are in the center; time for them to take charge.

 

This..X100.......I'm baffled that we, as a country, tend to cater to the extremist of both parties....

I'm a proud Republican who despises Trump....I consider myself a moderate....the current GOP does not represent me at all....

[SoTier]

28 minutes ago, shoshin said:

The Libertarian Party is a joke. 
 

Libertarian principles are not. 

 

There will always be tension in a democratic society between individual rights and the social good.  It's not an easy balance to achieve.  The US, even today, is a whole lot closer to striking that balance than are most countries.  It could do a lot better, and it would do better, if ideologues -- ie "wingnuts" -- on both sides of the political spectrum didn't have the loudest voices. 

[shoshin]

8 minutes ago, Iron Maiden said:

 

This..X100.......I'm baffled that we, as a country, tend to cater to the extremist of both parties....

I'm a proud Republican who despises Trump....I consider myself a moderate....the current GOP does not represent me at all....

 

Social media has amplified the extremes. Who gets excited about a moderate? 

[oldmanfan]

9 minutes ago, Iron Maiden said:

 

This..X100.......I'm baffled that we, as a country, tend to cater to the extremist of both parties....

I'm a proud Republican who despises Trump....I consider myself a moderate....the current GOP does not represent me at all....

Right there with you.  I am Independent, conservative on fiscal and law and order, more liberal on social issues.  In my lifetime I've voted for more Republicans than Democrats, although I always vote for the individual.  The current republican party is not Republican, it is a cult devoted to one man.  Nor is the Democratic party the party of Truman, although at least they had the sense to put a more moderate guy in the White House than, say, Bernie.

[shoshin]

9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Right there with you.  I am Independent, conservative on fiscal and law and order, more liberal on social issues.  In my lifetime I've voted for more Republicans than Democrats, although I always vote for the individual.  The current republican party is not Republican, it is a cult devoted to one man.  Nor is the Democratic party the party of Truman, although at least they had the sense to put a more moderate guy in the White House than, say, Bernie.

 

I have voted for 2 Democrats in my 7 presidential elections, including Biden in the last one. I'm right there with you on Trump. 

[Tiberius]

42 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Estonia may be the closest.  And before you chuckle, they are way ahead of the game in terms of incorporating technology to enhance individual freedoms.  Want to see major demographic shifts in voting?  Let people vote from their iPhones.  They also have become a real hub for startups - a Silicon Valley of Eastern Europe.

My Russian history professor at UB was an Estonian 

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Right there with you.  I am Independent, conservative on fiscal and law and order, more liberal on social issues.  In my lifetime I've voted for more Republicans than Democrats, although I always vote for the individual.  The current republican party is not Republican, it is a cult devoted to one man.  Nor is the Democratic party the party of Truman, although at least they had the sense to put a more moderate guy in the White House than, say, Bernie.

 

Contrary to the Republicans, Democrats have not ceded control of the party to it's radical wing nor to a cult of personality.   They learned some bitter lessons back in the 1970s and 1980s about swinging too far away from the center.   There is far greater diversity of opinion among Democrats than among Republicans, from elected officials to rank-and-file.

I'm pretty far to the left both fiscally and socially, but I'm a pragmatist at heart (have nothing good to say about ideologues at either end of the spectrum), so I understand and respect that not everybody shares my views even on a single topic much less on a range of topics, and I'm good with compromising.   I'm a half a loaf is better than none person.   Biden wouldn't be my first choice for a presidential candidate but his positions on most issues are acceptable to me.

 

 

[Big Blitz]

3 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Love how "Libertarianism" makes a big come back as soon as a Democrat is elected president. 

 

Which country in the world is the premier Libertarian country to model off of? 

 

 

Never said go full blown libertarian.  Didn't say that at all.  Even tho me personally I'm finding myself more and more in their corner but it's like half a foot in.  

 

Definitely like Ron Paul.  Agree with him on maybe 50% of his positions.  

[shoshin]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

Contrary to the Republicans, Democrats have not ceded control of the party to it's radical wing nor to a cult of personality.   They learned some bitter lessons back in the 1970s and 1980s about swinging too far away from the center.   There is far greater diversity of opinion among Democrats than among Republicans, from elected officials to rank-and-file.

I'm pretty far to the left both fiscally and socially, but I'm a pragmatist at heart (have nothing good to say about ideologues at either end of the spectrum), so I understand and respect that not everybody shares my views even on a single topic much less on a range of topics, and I'm good with compromising.   I'm a half a loaf is better than none person.   Biden wouldn't be my first choice for a presidential candidate but his positions on most issues are acceptable to me.

 

 

 

Ceded control, no not yet. But the rise of the far left should be as concerning to Americans as the rise of the amoral Trumpists.  

[SoTier]

21 minutes ago, shoshin said:

 

Ceded control, no not yet. But the rise of the far left should be as concerning to Americans as the rise of the amoral Trumpists.  

 

The "far left" of the Democratic Party sounds far further left than it really is because the center of the Republican Party has shifted so far to the right.  There used to be Republicans who were fiscal moderates and social liberals.   There used to be many Republicans who were fiscal conservatives and social moderates, but they're in seriously endangered in Trump's GOP.   Hell, there used to be Republicans who were fiscal conservatives and social conservatives, but those too are endangered.  

 

The current GOP is run by social reactionaries and fiscally self-serving individuals who put their own personal interests ahead of the welfare of the country, starting with the lame duck President.  They are not amoral.  They are immoral.

[Big Blitz]

6 hours ago, TBBills said:

If you cared about your kids you wouldn't be a nutbag.

The OP is the same idiot that posted the danish mask bull#### and never read the article just trusted some crazy guy on Twitter that retweeted it.... Same person that didn't think wearing masks mattered

 

 

Ok....idiot.  I'm assuming it's all good to personally insult people here.  Which is fine by me.  I just thought generalizations of a political group were fine.  

 

Individual posters no.  Just checking.  

 

 

But anyway.....idiot.....show me the evidence they do work.  Peer reviewed work on Covid and masks that show they "work."

 

Thank you.

[oldmanfan]

6 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Ok....idiot.  I'm assuming it's all good to personally insult people here.  Which is fine by me.  I just thought generalizations of a political group were fine.  

 

Individual posters no.  Just checking.  

 

 

But anyway.....idiot.....show me the evidence they do work.  Peer reviewed work on Covid and masks that show they "work."

 

Thank you.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/masking-science-sars-cov2.html

 

Article here shows 45 references, most if not all peer reviewed, showing benefits of masks.

 

Happy reading.

[Big Blitz]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/masking-science-sars-cov2.html

 

Article here shows 45 references, most if not all peer reviewed, showing benefits of masks.

 

Happy reading.

 

Yep.  Read it.  And there isn't any.  

 

These are the same people at CDC that concluded mask wearing also offers protection to the wearer.  

 

It doesn't.

[oldmanfan]

8 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Yep.  Read it.  And there isn't any.  

 

These are the same people at CDC that concluded mask wearing also offers protection to the wearer.  

 

It doesn't.

The above is what is scary about this pandemic and the political situation surrounding it.  The absolute refusal to accept things like data and science and facts.  

 

You have completely gone off the reservation if you are going to try and say that 45 articles showing benefits of masks are all wrong.  First, I guarantee you did not read all, if any, of the 45 articles.  Second, I have a 40 year career in basic and clinical research and review dozens of articles a year for different journals.  While I have not reviewed all of these 45 articles, I have looked at several and they are valid.

 

I will predict you read none of them, and can you comment on your background that allows you to interpret the now mountain of data backing mask usage as being meaningless?  I’d like to know what your qualifications are that make you more of an authority than hundreds of trained epidemiologists, virologists, etc.

 

[TBBills]

36 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Ok....idiot.  I'm assuming it's all good to personally insult people here.  Which is fine by me.  I just thought generalizations of a political group were fine.  

 

Individual posters no.  Just checking.  

 

 

But anyway.....idiot.....show me the evidence they do work.  Peer reviewed work on Covid and masks that show they "work."

 

Thank you.

Go read the danish bull#### you posted has nothing to do with it. I understand you are an idiot and trying to post something pro no leaks but in reality science is smarter than you.  

 

Anyone that posts the bolded are just plain stupid. Please show me any evidence that shows the opposite. You won't b.c EVERYONE with half a brain knows that masks help.

 

28 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Yep.  Read it.  And there isn't any.  

 

These are the same people at CDC that concluded mask wearing also offers protection to the wearer.  

 

It doesn't.

So when someone posts facts you ignore it.... Yea you are an idiot.

[Big Blitz]

52 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

The above is what is scary about this pandemic and the political situation surrounding it.  The absolute refusal to accept things like data and science and facts.  

 

You have completely gone off the reservation if you are going to try and say that 45 articles showing benefits of masks are all wrong.  First, I guarantee you did not read all, if any, of the 45 articles.  Second, I have a 40 year career in basic and clinical research and review dozens of articles a year for different journals.  While I have not reviewed all of these 45 articles, I have looked at several and they are valid.

 

I will predict you read none of them, and can you comment on your background that allows you to interpret the now mountain of data backing mask usage as being meaningless?  I’d like to know what your qualifications are that make you more of an authority than hundreds of trained epidemiologists, virologists, etc.

 

 

I'm just an ordinary guy.  

 

 

I'm taking his advice 

 

I'll assume you're going to tell me "they didn't know" or he "didn't want a run on ppe."

 

The same people that are telling us Trump knew it was airborne back in January.  Yet here is Fauci, who has watched Asian countries wear masks for years for a variety of reasons, the world's top epidemiologist literally mocking the idea of masking up on March 9th.  

Edited November 20, 2020 by Big Blitz

[Big Blitz]

*constantly told masks work*

 

*100 million people nationwide infected*

 

Ok.  Mask up I guess.  They're doing a bang up job.

 

Swiss cheese approach!!!!!!

 

 

 

For our next government mandate we will require no one to get within 6 feet of each other for the next 15 days....or forever really that works to.  

 

[oldmanfan]

8 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

I'm just an ordinary guy.  

 

 

I'm taking his advice 

 

I'll assume you're going to tell me "they didn't know" or he "didn't want a run on ppe."

 

The same people that are telling us Trump knew it was airborne back in January.  Yet here is Fauci, who has watched Asian countries wear masks for years for a variety of reasons, the world's top epidemiologist literally mocking the idea of masking up on March 9th.  

OMG.  This has been gone over time and time and time again.  In March there was great concern that there was not enough PPE including masks for the front line health care workers (which in fact was true; the hospital network I work for had to ration).  Fauci indicated the public should not wear masks to be sure the front line health care workers had what they needed.  As scientists did more studies on how the virus spread they found it was primarily by droplets and aerosols, and that masks including cloth masks could help the wearer from emitting virus.  

 

All if which is covered in CDC publications including the one I referenced with, again, 45 references.

 

So you have no scientific expertise but feel you can discount multiple studies because you saw something o social media site.  This is precisely the problem we have as a society right now.  Refusal to understand and accept facts.  

[Doc Brown]

30 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

*constantly told masks work*

 

*100 million people nationwide infected*

 

Ok.  Mask up I guess.  They're doing a bang up job.

 

Swiss cheese approach!!!!!!

 

 

 

For our next government mandate we will require no one to get within 6 feet of each other for the next 15 days....or forever really that works to.  

 

Your whining about a minor inconvenience is getting annoying.  To quote McDermott, "back up or mask up."

[Big Blitz]

26 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

OMG.  This has been gone over time and time and time again.  In March there was great concern that there was not enough PPE including masks for the front line health care workers (which in fact was true; the hospital network I work for had to ration).  Fauci indicated the public should not wear masks to be sure the front line health care workers had what they needed.  As scientists did more studies on how the virus spread they found it was primarily by droplets and aerosols, and that masks including cloth masks could help the wearer from emitting virus.  

 

All if which is covered in CDC publications including the one I referenced with, again, 45 references.

 

So you have no scientific expertise but feel you can discount multiple studies because you saw something o social media site.  This is precisely the problem we have as a society right now.  Refusal to understand and accept facts.  

 

 

This is why I know this is all a sham

 

 

4 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Your whining about a minor inconvenience is getting annoying.  To quote McDermott, "back up or mask up."

 

 

This minor "inconvenience" (and it is) has ruined businesses and livelihoods going on 9 months and counting.  

 

I said in March wear the freaking masks but we should be full open.

 

I think they do near absolutely nothing, but I'll wear one if it means we can all peacefully protest together.  

[Doc Brown]

5 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

This is why I know this is all a sham

 

 

 

 

This minor "inconvenience" (and it is) has ruined businesses and livelihoods going on 9 months and counting.  

 

I said in March wear the freaking masks but we should be full open.

 

I think they do near absolutely nothing, but I'll wear one if it means we can all peacefully protest together.  

I’m referring to your multiple posts bitching at wearing masks.  Not the merits of lockdowns.

[snafu]

8 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

And I’ll add - libertarianism and “states rights” don’t really coexist.  Most of the GOP base believe strongly that states should have the power to enact their own broad restrictions on liberty (drug laws, abortion laws, voter qualification requirements etc.).  That is directly at odds with true libertarianism.

 

Why do you presume that States will impose broad restrictions?  Many states don't.  People move from one location to another all the time.  They do this because of more or less social restriction and or tax or healthcare benefits from one jurisdiction to another.  They do it to suit their needs or desires.  Local governments provide this specialization (or don't).  A one-size Federal government can't.

 

And you're forgetting a big reason to support states rights.  It removes the unnecessary duplication of many regulations to slim down the Federal Government. I don't really believe that the Federal Budget, the NYS Budget and the NYC budget (to name one where I live) are efficiently aligned, and there's a lot of excess and wast and frankly, taxes and regulatory fees are heaped upon each other.

 

8 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

If the GOP embraces classical liberalism they’ll get my vote again.

 

So who does get your vote?  Because the other major party isn't about liberalism.  If you aren't going to vote for the only party that could possibly give you a chance at what you're seeking, then do you go to the other party which would never come close to providing it?  

 

[snafu]

3 hours ago, shoshin said:

 

Ceded control, no not yet. But the rise of the far left should be as concerning to Americans as the rise of the amoral Trumpists.  

 

The far left isn't going to gain any traction in Congress at the moment because the margin is too slim and the moderate D's want to keep their jobs and the majority wants to keep its majority.

 

The way-too-powerful executive branch on the other hand...they've got to pay the progressives back for the coalition they made to get into office.  That's going to be ugly..

 

 

[TBBills]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

The above is what is scary about this pandemic and the political situation surrounding it.  The absolute refusal to accept things like data and science and facts.  

 

You have completely gone off the reservation if you are going to try and say that 45 articles showing benefits of masks are all wrong.  First, I guarantee you did not read all, if any, of the 45 articles.  Second, I have a 40 year career in basic and clinical research and review dozens of articles a year for different journals.  While I have not reviewed all of these 45 articles, I have looked at several and they are valid.

 

I will predict you read none of them, and can you comment on your background that allows you to interpret the now mountain of data backing mask usage as being meaningless?  I’d like to know what your qualifications are that make you more of an authority than hundreds of trained epidemiologists, virologists, etc.

 

He didn't even read the study he tried to use to say masks didnt do anything... expect this guy to read anything even after he messed up in this thread and wont admit it.

 

43 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

This is why I know this is all a sham

 

 

 

 

This minor "inconvenience" (and it is) has ruined businesses and livelihoods going on 9 months and counting.  

 

I said in March wear the freaking masks but we should be full open.

 

I think they do near absolutely nothing, but I'll wear one if it means we can all peacefully protest together.  

You are the dumbest human being on this forum.

Edited November 20, 2020 by TBBills

[TBBills]

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

*constantly told masks work*

 

*100 million people nationwide infected*

 

Ok.  Mask up I guess.  They're doing a bang up job.

 

Swiss cheese approach!!!!!!

 

 

 

For our next government mandate we will require no one to get within 6 feet of each other for the next 15 days....or forever really that works to.  

 

100 million nation wide? DO you have links to 100million? 

 

You prove every post how dumb you are.

 

 

Wonder what the number would be if everyone didn't wear masks.

 

 

You call doctors and nurses idiots for wearing masks? You call scientists idiots for wearing masks and telling other people to wear masks? I guess the idiots are the educated people and the uneducated like yourself are the real smart people?

Edited November 20, 2020 by TBBills

[Big Blitz]

24 minutes ago, TBBills said:

100 million nation wide? DO you have links to 100million? 

 

You prove every post how dumb you are.

 

 

 

We know why doctors and nurses wear them and it isnt so you dont catch the flu.

 

The CDC estimates that as many as 10 times the actual number we are counting has or had it.

 

CDC chief says coronavirus cases may be 10 times higher than reported

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/06/25/coronavirus-cases-10-times-larger/

 

Those are the facts.  Also, TDSBills, did you know this is how they estimate IFRs.  You can go on the rigged Google and search that.  After the first headlines come up of "Trump knew IFR rate and lied," and "Its not the flu, bro" and probably "Trump pressures CDC to downplay cases" all of which take you to Daily Beast or Vox, you'll eventually get a little science.  

 

You prove in all your posts you're fairly worthless to respond to. 

 

But I live rent free in your brain and that makes me happy.  

Edited November 20, 2020 by Big Blitz