billsfan89 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 I am very glad that the NFL has all turnovers and TD's automatically reviewed. Having coaches challenge those types of plays was a stupid system. Granted I still think it would be better to have all reviews in the booth like they do in college but at least there is a system in place to make the two plays that are usually challenged an automatic review. As for McD he should have a replay specialist, seems like something every team would have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 16 hours ago, r00tabaga said: I don’t know if a challenge is worth it there it’s first and goal from the one. I don’t understand why they don’t just call them all TDs then let the review pull it back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigotz Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 16 hours ago, Chaos said: We need a change then Agreed on this big time. The Head Coach gets all the credit/blame for challenges, but he has a team in his ear telling him whether to challenge or not. Whomever our person is, he/she is not good enough. This is less a reflection on McDermott and more on the challenge specialist. Time for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 7 hours ago, thenorthremembers said: They have to figure something out because statistically he is the worst coach in the league when it comes to challenges and its not close. Last time I checked he was somewhere around an 11% success rate. McDermott is always preaching improving all aspects of the game. This is one that should be looked into. Their entire "challenge" system should be looked at for improvements. 24 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said: They do have this. Every professional sports team that operates in a league where replay challenges exist, has someone who fills this role. It may not be in the job title, but there is someone with the responsibilities included in their job description. The issue is the consistency of the league IMO. Look at the other thread today about the Marcus Peters interception. It doesn’t even make sense anymore. I 100% KNOW they have a system for challenges. That's not my point. Whatever system they have in place can and should be improved. Bills are at the bottom of the league in challenges and it's not all on the refs. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 I think the Davis reception was a touchdown, but I doubt it would have been reversed based on the camera angles I saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 16 hours ago, Doc said: After they refused to say Brown scored a TD against the Raiders, I doubt he would have won this challenge. This. How over the line does a possessed football need to be? They started talking about making "football moves". He caught the ball, the ball broke the plane, he maintained possession throughout. And they ruled not enough evidence to overturn call on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Rigotz said: Agreed on this big time. The Head Coach gets all the credit/blame for challenges, but he has a team in his ear telling him whether to challenge or not. Whomever our person is, he/she is not good enough. This is less a reflection on McDermott and more on the challenge specialist. Time for a change. Or a reflection of New York City. They’ve blown some pretty easy calls including the interception versus Los Angeles. There are many others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Kevi Posted November 9, 2020 Author Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said: McDermott is always preaching improving all aspects of the game. This is one that should be looked into. Their entire "challenge" system should be looked at for improvements. I 100% KNOW they have a system for challenges. That's not my point. Whatever system they have in place can and should be improved. Bills are at the bottom of the league in challenges and it's not all on the refs. IMO Bolded is basically what I started the thread for. If you don't obcess about the things you do poorly, you never improve them. I don't think McD has a problem with that, and that's why it's so odd he hasn't been flipping over rocks looking for ways to improve his challenge win rate. Or maybe he has been and it's not working. Either way he would probably benefit from a position like this (or an upgrade at that position). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Heavy Kevi said: Bolded is basically what I started the thread for. If you don't obcess about the things you do poorly, you never improve them. I don't think McD has a problem with that, and that's why it's so odd he hasn't been flipping over rocks looking for ways to improve his challenge win rate. Or maybe he has been and it's not working. Either way he would probably benefit from a position like this (or an upgrade at that position). The Bills have a system. Evidence shows it needed to be improved. That's not saying the Bills have not addressed it this year and being that challenges are so few none of us know for sure. It is a good topic and it would benefit from having a reporter ask again about it. Not is a critical way but in an informative way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 2 hours ago, ColoradoBills said: Which is why having a better person/team watching and advising McDermott is needed IMO. The challenge should not have been about the TD it should of been about the "spot". That would have not resulted in a loss Timeout even if they did not rule it a TD. McDermott has done a fantastic job coaching this team BUT this "challenge" problem should be addressed. They need someone who is training to be an "expert" on red flag challenges in the booth and a better system getting that info to Sean. They do - it is part of the analytics team that from previous discussion earlier this year has a direct line to head coach. I believe they only allow you to challenge the spot if it is a first down/TD. You do not get a challenge to just move the spot a few inches. He would of had to challenge that it was a TD and then even if they move it - he still loses the challenge. The same thing happens if challenge a spot near the first down - typically if you do not get it - even if they move the ball forward a yard - you lose the challenge. It was done specifically to keep teams from making these types of challenges. He might of been able to challenge that he did not go out of bounds, but I still think that would have related to TD or no TD. The fact that the crew calling the game did not mention it until after the commercial break means that they probably did not have a great shot and you notice even the rules expert hedged and said he might have gotten a TD because those calls have been more consistently going with the call on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: I don’t understand why they don’t just call them all TDs then let the review pull it back Because of the definition needed - if they call it a score - they need definitive proof to overturn it and that requires proper camera angles. The call on the field is the most important part of the call as that most likely will determine the final outcome. They need to get the call right, but there are just so many plays that are so close because the athletes have so much more body control and talent and the camera angles and players speed are so much better - it is a nearly impossible task. They actually need to slow down the offenses a bit and have a review of each play, but that screws with rhythm and would lead to a decrease in overall plays and the NFL prefers some of these up tempo offenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: They do - it is part of the analytics team that from previous discussion earlier this year has a direct line to head coach. I believe they only allow you to challenge the spot if it is a first down/TD. You do not get a challenge to just move the spot a few inches. He would of had to challenge that it was a TD and then even if they move it - he still loses the challenge. The same thing happens if challenge a spot near the first down - typically if you do not get it - even if they move the ball forward a yard - you lose the challenge. It was done specifically to keep teams from making these types of challenges. He might of been able to challenge that he did not go out of bounds, but I still think that would have related to TD or no TD. The fact that the crew calling the game did not mention it until after the commercial break means that they probably did not have a great shot and you notice even the rules expert hedged and said he might have gotten a TD because those calls have been more consistently going with the call on the field. If that is true I stand corrected. To clarify my comments are more about the Bills history of challenges more than that individual play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said: McDermott is always preaching improving all aspects of the game. This is one that should be looked into. Their entire "challenge" system should be looked at for improvements. I 100% KNOW they have a system for challenges. That's not my point. Whatever system they have in place can and should be improved. Bills are at the bottom of the league in challenges and it's not all on the refs. IMO They have continued to make changes to the team - they brought in a brand new analytics lead to help decide on many aspects such as which plays to challenge, when to challenge and when to let it go, when to go for it on 4th down. They are trying to use a data driven system based upon both the play and the turn over rate. My guess is that play they had a poor view of the play to decide if it was a TD or not and therefore a low % chance to overturn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfball323 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Skipping to the end here to just give my two cents: Gabe needs to sell that he scored there. With a little bit of salesmanship, that ref might have ruled a td with the fall back that its automatically reviewed anyways. He's been a good rookie, but its a coaching point in the meeting room today. As everybody has noted, it cost us 4 points. Did it matter in the end? No, but those are little things that win other games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Rochesterfan said: They have continued to make changes to the team - they brought in a brand new analytics lead to help decide on many aspects such as which plays to challenge, when to challenge and when to let it go, when to go for it on 4th down. They are trying to use a data driven system based upon both the play and the turn over rate. My guess is that play they had a poor view of the play to decide if it was a TD or not and therefore a low % chance to overturn. Thanks for the info. I must of missed the news on bringing in a new system recently. That's good to hear. Like I said in one of my posts about this. There are so few challenges and that success rate is only around 40% is hard to see if things were improved. I'll bow out of this conversation trusting your news about this! I will pass this info to my brothers/nephews too (we texted about this last night) LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: Because of the definition needed - if they call it a score - they need definitive proof to overturn it and that requires proper camera angles. The call on the field is the most important part of the call as that most likely will determine the final outcome. They need to get the call right, but there are just so many plays that are so close because the athletes have so much more body control and talent and the camera angles and players speed are so much better - it is a nearly impossible task. They actually need to slow down the offenses a bit and have a review of each play, but that screws with rhythm and would lead to a decrease in overall plays and the NFL prefers some of these up tempo offenses. calls get overturned all the time. I cant think of a case where the call on the field was right and replay got it wrong, excepting maybe during that PI none sense. even if it happens it way less often than it being called wrong then overturned which happens quite a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: Thanks for the info. I must of missed the news on bringing in a new system recently. That's good to hear. Like I said in one of my posts about this. There are so few challenges and that success rate is only around 40% is hard to see if things were improved. I'll bow out of this conversation trusting your news about this! I will pass this info to my brothers/nephews too (we texted about this last night) LOL. I believe Luis Guilamo and Dennis Lock have been added as Directors of analytics and Research and Strategy to assist in this regards. I am not sure they are responsible or if they have someone else in the booth, but I know when Luis was hired McDermott talked a lot about that - trying to get analytics behind the decision. He also stated that - it would not mean they would get them all right because sometimes you have to challenge a big play - even if the analytics are not favorable and sometimes you let a play go because the reward is less than the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Rochesterfan said: I believe Luis Guilamo and Dennis Lock have been added as Directors of analytics and Research and Strategy to assist in this regards. I am not sure they are responsible or if they have someone else in the booth, but I know when Luis was hired McDermott talked a lot about that - trying to get analytics behind the decision. He also stated that - it would not mean they would get them all right because sometimes you have to challenge a big play - even if the analytics are not favorable and sometimes you let a play go because the reward is less than the risk. I often agree with that. As to the specific result of the play in question, I sure wanted the Bills to run it 3 times for the TD try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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