Mikie2times Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 31 minutes ago, TwistofFate said: I want to be much more than one and done. We've been in that position twice in 3 years. Sorry, not that team yet. Your fault if you made them become that in your mind. Torch the front office because we aren't that team after 3-4 years? Please....Only 1-2 of those teams a year, teams that dominate and consistently win by a TD or more with style point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) Gotta accept we aren't as good as first thought. Mostly on defense. But we are also in great shape to win the division. So just keep grinding out wins. Edited November 2, 2020 by PromoTheRobot 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DabillsDaBillsDaBills Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Should we ask Chiefs fans if their 35-9 win over the Jets was "ugly" ? That's what a championship caliber team does to a bottom feeder. They don't let a team like that hang around and only beat them by 1 score. I'm not overly concerned about this last game against the Patriots. What I'm concerned with is the season long trend that our Defense is bad. I'm also concerned with the 4 consecutive weeks of average/below average play from our offense. With our franchise QB on a rookie contract we should absolutely be serious SB contenders. The fact that we're halfway through season #3 for Josh and we're looking like a one and done playoff team should be concerning to everyone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 So much of what happens at the end of the season in the current NFL is how much you can improve throughout the season. The race is on now, instead of being 4-4 we are 6-2 and in command of the Division. Games have shown our strengths and weaknesses, how much we can improve the weaknesses is the key to winning in the playoffs. We have shown that we can hang with anyone and win more than we lose. Getting all our guys back and healthy going down the stretch is huge. The way things look now and how they look in early January will be much different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistofFate Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 18 minutes ago, KzooMike said: Sorry, not that team yet. Your fault if you made them become that in your mind. Torch the front office because we aren't that team after 3-4 years? Please....Only 1-2 of those teams a year, teams that dominate and consistently win by a TD or more with style point. I never said "torch the front office." In fact I've said the opposite of that many times. If your expectations aren't Super Bowl every year, what's the point? If they aren't that team now, when? We won't win playoff games playing like this and playoff wins are what it's all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 11 hours ago, KzooMike said: We are seeing very negative threads following Bills wins. I'm sure most on here can recall a hell of a lot of games the past 20 years we lost by not executing in small areas, by a small margins of defeat, failing on the last drive, etc.... MOST the games in the last 20 years went that way. If you paid close attention to the league the past 20 years you would notice most NFL games go that way and a higher % of divisional games. It is VERY unusual to have an NFL game with a line greater than a margin of 7. All of them are supposed to be close. We were excellent at not winning close games for 20 years and now we are becoming excellent at winning them. For all but a couple of teams each year that is the definition of success and we are getting consistent in that definition. We aren't the Chiefs, who this year really are the only world beaters. Nobody here would ever try and claim we are the Chiefs. If, when, until, we become a team of that caliber, for the most part, they all will all be ugly. As a good team, we will win most. We will get in the playoffs and once you do that you can keep advancing and you hope to get positioned to play a world beater and be at your best. On a positive note...... We made the playoffs 2 of the the last 3 seasons, certainly looks like it will be 3 of 4. Currently a heavy favorite to host the first Bills playoff game in 25 years even though nobody will be able to attend it (sad face emoji). From all appearances, we have our Franchise QB. Beane is not as good as you think he is. He is very good, but some of you act as if he's not going to miss on FA's or draft picks. More a result of our own fan base turning him into a deity but that's not exactl fair. He's accomplished more than any GM since Bill Polian. We have no reason to not give him the benefit of the doubt along with McDermott. We can also criticize as we would anybody else. Just do yourself a favor, don't expect either to be perfect and don't expect us to roll teams. Even bad ones. That's just not where we are at nor how the NFL works. HUGE win today, another example of one we would have lost 100 out of 100 times the last 20 years, not anymore. GO BILLS! Kzoo - This is a really good perspective. In my head, KC stands out alone, just as you describe. McDermott is all about having players and teams who are tough, resilient, determined and focused. Zimmer's play wasn't an accident. It was the result of McDermott having a team that plays that way. Someone in this forum said last night or this morning that the way the Bills won yesterday was exactly how the Pats beat the Bills time and again over those past 20 years. As you say, not anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, TwistofFate said: I never said "torch the front office." In fact I've said the opposite of that many times. If your expectations aren't Super Bowl every year, what's the point? If they aren't that team now, when? We won't win playoff games playing like this and playoff wins are what it's all about. We do not have the roster to win a Super Bowl this year. If you look back the last decade, elite QB or elite defense. Then maybe a Philly special once in a blue moon <= Which we do have the potential of having because we can, despite what your eyes tell you, beat anybody, any given Sunday. So is your point just to complain as we keep winning? Which even if lacking true Super Bowl talent, is sort of what you need to do to have any shot at the SB. What would you do with yourself if we weren't winning? So we complain when we win and lose....Just for context I hope you understand the Bills have never won a Super Bowl. So if we complain when we win and lose, might not be very fun existence. FYI, the Bills were a 4 point favorite against the Patriots. We won by 3, shocking outcome. If a subgroup of fans got overzealous from our fast start not having the last 20+ years to warn them never to get overzealous too early, shame on them. 5 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said: Should we ask Chiefs fans if their 35-9 win over the Jets was "ugly" ? That's what a championship caliber team does to a bottom feeder. They don't let a team like that hang around and only beat them by 1 score. I'm not overly concerned about this last game against the Patriots. What I'm concerned with is the season long trend that our Defense is bad. I'm also concerned with the 4 consecutive weeks of average/below average play from our offense. With our franchise QB on a rookie contract we should absolutely be serious SB contenders. The fact that we're halfway through season #3 for Josh and we're looking like a one and done playoff team should be concerning to everyone. Yes, that is what a championship team does. Which we aren't right now, but the Chiefs are, which I said. We just sort of found out this year that we have a Franchise QB. The fact that we are in Josh's 3rd year and are looking like we will likely win the division, which then opens up all sorts of possibilities should be very exciting. It's hard for me to be concerned about something that has never occurred once in our franchises history but your timer for concern is the third year of our QB's lifespan and the first year we can say with a decent amount of confidence he is a franchise QB. Yeesh. Edited November 2, 2020 by KzooMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistofFate Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 1 hour ago, KzooMike said: We do not have the roster to win a Super Bowl this year. If you look back the last decade, elite QB or elite defense. Then maybe a Philly special once in a blue moon <= Which we do have the potential of having because we can, despite what your eyes tell you, beat anybody, any given Sunday. So is your point just to complain as we keep winning? Which even if lacking true Super Bowl talent, is sort of what you need to do to have any shot at the SB. What would you do with yourself if we weren't winning? So we complain when we win and lose....Just for context I hope you understand the Bills have never won a Super Bowl. So if we complain when we win and lose, might not be very fun existence. FYI, the Bills were a 4 point favorite against the Patriots. We won by 3, shocking outcome. If a subgroup of fans got overzealous from our fast start not having the last 20+ years to warn them never to get overzealous too early, shame on them. Yes, that is what a championship team does. Which we aren't right now, but the Chiefs are, which I said. We just sort of found out this year that we have a Franchise QB. The fact that we are in Josh's 3rd year and are looking like we will likely win the division, which then opens up all sorts of possibilities should be very exciting. It's hard for me to be concerned about something that has never occurred once in our franchises history but your timer for concern is the third year of our QB's lifespan and the first year we can say with a decent amount of confidence he is a franchise QB. Yeesh. My complaint is we are no where close to knowing if we have a franchise Qb, as you stated in your opening statement. Allen has not shown anything on a consistent basis that he is a long term solution. He started magnificent this season only to fade away in the second quarter. Winning the division is a goal for sure, something we haven't done in 25 years. But when I look at this division I'm far from impressed. 0-8 Jets, 2-5 Patriots, 4-3 Dolphins. We have as many wins as the whole division. This division is bad, very bad. Not our fault, but we should be dominating lesser opponents,and we aren't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DabillsDaBillsDaBills Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 1 hour ago, KzooMike said: We do not have the roster to win a Super Bowl this year. If you look back the last decade, elite QB or elite defense. Then maybe a Philly special once in a blue moon <= Which we do have the potential of having because we can, despite what your eyes tell you, beat anybody, any given Sunday. So is your point just to complain as we keep winning? Which even if lacking true Super Bowl talent, is sort of what you need to do to have any shot at the SB. What would you do with yourself if we weren't winning? So we complain when we win and lose....Just for context I hope you understand the Bills have never won a Super Bowl. So if we complain when we win and lose, might not be very fun existence. FYI, the Bills were a 4 point favorite against the Patriots. We won by 3, shocking outcome. If a subgroup of fans got overzealous from our fast start not having the last 20+ years to warn them never to get overzealous too early, shame on them. Yes, that is what a championship team does. Which we aren't right now, but the Chiefs are, which I said. We just sort of found out this year that we have a Franchise QB. The fact that we are in Josh's 3rd year and are looking like we will likely win the division, which then opens up all sorts of possibilities should be very exciting. It's hard for me to be concerned about something that has never occurred once in our franchises history but your timer for concern is the third year of our QB's lifespan and the first year we can say with a decent amount of confidence he is a franchise QB. Yeesh. Good QB's will be successful by their 3rd season in today's NFL, and should have their teams competing for a championship. Take a look at what these guys have done on their rookie contracts Mahomes - regular season MVP, Superbowl MVP Jackson - regular season MVP Watson - 2 pro bowls and 2 playoff appearances Goff - 2 pro bowls and 2 playoff appearances. SuperBowl loss Wentz - 1 Pro Bowl and 2 playoff appearances (injured for the first one) good chance he would've won MVP in 2017 without the injury. Eagles still went on to win the SB that year Paying your 1st round draft pick QB $30mm+ under "fair value" gives teams a tremendous competitive advantage, and good teams will use that advantage to become Superbowl contenders. All 5 of the teams above were legit Superbowl contenders while their rookie QBs were on rookie deals. After giving out mega contracts the Rams and Eagles went from "elite" to "borderline playoff contender". It remains to be seen what will happen to the Chiefs, Ravens, and Texans (the Texans have already imploded - they may not be a great example). If the Bills are a borderline playoff contender while paying Josh $30mm+ under fair value, what the heck are we going to look like in 2022 and on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 28 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said: Good QB's will be successful by their 3rd season in today's NFL, and should have their teams competing for a championship. Take a look at what these guys have done on their rookie contracts Mahomes - regular season MVP, Superbowl MVP Jackson - regular season MVP Watson - 2 pro bowls and 2 playoff appearances Goff - 2 pro bowls and 2 playoff appearances. SuperBowl loss Wentz - 1 Pro Bowl and 2 playoff appearances (injured for the first one) good chance he would've won MVP in 2017 without the injury. Eagles still went on to win the SB that year Paying your 1st round draft pick QB $30mm+ under "fair value" gives teams a tremendous competitive advantage, and good teams will use that advantage to become Superbowl contenders. All 5 of the teams above were legit Superbowl contenders while their rookie QBs were on rookie deals. After giving out mega contracts the Rams and Eagles went from "elite" to "borderline playoff contender". It remains to be seen what will happen to the Chiefs, Ravens, and Texans (the Texans have already imploded - they may not be a great example). If the Bills are a borderline playoff contender while paying Josh $30mm+ under fair value, what the heck are we going to look like in 2022 and on? I wouldn't trade Josh for any of those guys except Mahomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, KzooMike said: We are seeing very negative threads following Bills wins. I'm sure most on here can recall a hell of a lot of games the past 20 years we lost by not executing in small areas, by a small margins of defeat, failing on the last drive, etc.... MOST the games in the last 20 years went that way. If you paid close attention to the league the past 20 years you would notice most NFL games go that way and a higher % of divisional games. It is VERY unusual to have an NFL game with a line greater than a margin of 7. All of them are supposed to be close. We were excellent at not winning close games for 20 years and now we are becoming excellent at winning them. For all but a couple of teams each year that is the definition of success and we are getting consistent in that definition. We aren't the Chiefs, who this year really are the only world beaters. Nobody here would ever try and claim we are the Chiefs. If, when, until, we become a team of that caliber, for the most part, they all will all be ugly. As a good team, we will win most. We will get in the playoffs and once you do that you can keep advancing and you hope to get positioned to play a world beater and be at your best. On a positive note...... We made the playoffs 2 of the the last 3 seasons, certainly looks like it will be 3 of 4. Currently a heavy favorite to host the first Bills playoff game in 25 years even though nobody will be able to attend it (sad face emoji). From all appearances, we have our Franchise QB. Beane is not as good as you think he is. He is very good, but some of you act as if he's not going to miss on FA's or draft picks. More a result of our own fan base turning him into a deity but that's not exactl fair. He's accomplished more than any GM since Bill Polian. We have no reason to not give him the benefit of the doubt along with McDermott. We can also criticize as we would anybody else. Just do yourself a favor, don't expect either to be perfect and don't expect us to roll teams. Even bad ones. That's just not where we are at nor how the NFL works. HUGE win today, another example of one we would have lost 100 out of 100 times the last 20 years, not anymore. GO BILLS! I’m probably more positive than the average fan as some are well aware. (It even annoys some people, but I can live with that.) BUT, we have some very concerning issues. Real problems. That is painfully clear. Having said that, I’d adjust the title to “All Wins Are BEAUTIFUL in This League”. If we get a “W” I’m happy. I may ALSO be concerned, but I am happy. . Edited November 2, 2020 by Augie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaw66 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 1 hour ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said: Good QB's will be successful by their 3rd season in today's NFL, and should have their teams competing for a championship. Take a look at what these guys have done on their rookie contracts Mahomes - regular season MVP, Superbowl MVP Jackson - regular season MVP Watson - 2 pro bowls and 2 playoff appearances Goff - 2 pro bowls and 2 playoff appearances. SuperBowl loss Wentz - 1 Pro Bowl and 2 playoff appearances (injured for the first one) good chance he would've won MVP in 2017 without the injury. Eagles still went on to win the SB that year Paying your 1st round draft pick QB $30mm+ under "fair value" gives teams a tremendous competitive advantage, and good teams will use that advantage to become Superbowl contenders. All 5 of the teams above were legit Superbowl contenders while their rookie QBs were on rookie deals. After giving out mega contracts the Rams and Eagles went from "elite" to "borderline playoff contender". It remains to be seen what will happen to the Chiefs, Ravens, and Texans (the Texans have already imploded - they may not be a great example). If the Bills are a borderline playoff contender while paying Josh $30mm+ under fair value, what the heck are we going to look like in 2022 and on? The Bills' objective is not to race to the top with a good QB and then implode. The objective is to be good for a long time. The objective is to have a Brady, a Manning, a Brees, a Rodgers, and then to build around him. The objective is to be a threat to win every year, not just to have a good QB and throw a bunch of talent together really fast to win, then let the good QB go because you don't want to pay him. The model you describe is nice, but McBeane have been very clear that they are not building that way. They are expecting their team to get better, year after year, and then to be on top for many years. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Some wins are pretty. But the Bills don’t usually win pretty. And I’m ok with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 4 hours ago, TwistofFate said: My complaint is we are no where close to knowing if we have a franchise Qb, as you stated in your opening statement. Allen has not shown anything on a consistent basis that he is a long term solution. He started magnificent this season only to fade away in the second quarter. Winning the division is a goal for sure, something we haven't done in 25 years. But when I look at this division I'm far from impressed. 0-8 Jets, 2-5 Patriots, 4-3 Dolphins. We have as many wins as the whole division. This division is bad, very bad. Not our fault, but we should be dominating lesser opponents,and we aren't. Fair, I'm not 100% riding Josh is a franchise QB. We think he is or might be, certainly the closest thing we have seen to one since Jimbo, but am I willing to say for certain? No. 3 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said: Good QB's will be successful by their 3rd season in today's NFL, and should have their teams competing for a championship. Take a look at what these guys have done on their rookie contracts Mahomes - regular season MVP, Superbowl MVP Jackson - regular season MVP Watson - 2 pro bowls and 2 playoff appearances Goff - 2 pro bowls and 2 playoff appearances. SuperBowl loss Wentz - 1 Pro Bowl and 2 playoff appearances (injured for the first one) good chance he would've won MVP in 2017 without the injury. Eagles still went on to win the SB that year Paying your 1st round draft pick QB $30mm+ under "fair value" gives teams a tremendous competitive advantage, and good teams will use that advantage to become Superbowl contenders. All 5 of the teams above were legit Superbowl contenders while their rookie QBs were on rookie deals. After giving out mega contracts the Rams and Eagles went from "elite" to "borderline playoff contender". It remains to be seen what will happen to the Chiefs, Ravens, and Texans (the Texans have already imploded - they may not be a great example). If the Bills are a borderline playoff contender while paying Josh $30mm+ under fair value, what the heck are we going to look like in 2022 and on? Most of everybody on your list has done nothing more or less than Allen outside of a couple trophies for being good in the regular season. As another pointed out, I wouldn't trade Josh for any of them outside of Mahomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DabillsDaBillsDaBills Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 1 hour ago, Shaw66 said: The Bills' objective is not to race to the top with a good QB and then implode. The objective is to be good for a long time. The objective is to have a Brady, a Manning, a Brees, a Rodgers, and then to build around him. The objective is to be a threat to win every year, not just to have a good QB and throw a bunch of talent together really fast to win, then let the good QB go because you don't want to pay him. The model you describe is nice, but McBeane have been very clear that they are not building that way. They are expecting their team to get better, year after year, and then to be on top for many years. I'd argue that McBeane have been building that way (racing to the top). This team is built more through free agency/trades than the draft. We just traded away our 2020 first round draft pick. Our roster is older than most. Of the top 14 cap hits on the team, only 2 of those players were drafted by the Bills (Tre and Dawkins). Look at all the FAs we brought in this offseason (Addison, Jefferson, Butler, Klein). We went quantity over quality, but we were still big spenders. We don't have a lot of long term contracts out there, but most of the contracts we have coming off the books in the next 2 years are going to go towards re-upping Josh. We might not be "all in" to the extent that the Rams or Eagles were, but we're still in win now mode. Frankly, we should be. I'd gladly trade a year of cap hell for a superbowl victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 10 hours ago, Shaw66 said: Kzoo - This is a really good perspective. In my head, KC stands out alone, just as you describe. . The 7-0 Steelers would like to say hello. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Chaos said: The 7-0 Steelers would like to say hello. Not really, they have one win by more than 10 points all year and have beaten mostly cream puffs until the last two weeks. Nobody blows teams out consistently in this league. That said, right now the 5-2 Bucs would like to say hi. Edited November 3, 2020 by KzooMike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 1 minute ago, KzooMike said: Not really, they have one win by more than 10 points all year and have beaten mostly cream puffs until the last two weeks. Nobody blows teams out consistently in this league. That said, right now the 5-2 Bucs would like to say hi. Ravens. Titans. Power puffs? Ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, Chaos said: Ravens. Titans. Power puffs? Ok. Slowly, so even the impaired can understand. Not really, they have one win by more than 10 points all year and have beaten mostly cream puffs until the last two weeks. Nobody blows teams out consistently in this league. That said, right now the 5-2 Bucs would like to say hi. Prior to the last two weeks the teams the Steelers have played have a combined record of 13-23. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 The Bucs are early SB picks for some and this will be an ugly win, if they can even pull it off. I read some poster yesterday say this team basically has no flaws.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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