Kemp Posted October 13, 2020 Author Share Posted October 13, 2020 Funny that Barrett isn't sure whether a President can postpone an election. I thought she's supposed to be an originalist. Maybe some of the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 5 hours ago, Kemp said: Funny that Barrett isn't sure whether a President can postpone an election. I thought she's supposed to be an originalist. Maybe some of the time? Judges don't render judgments on things such as this without consulting the text of laws and related case law (if any) not to mention deliberation with other SCOTUS judges if she were one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 14 hours ago, keepthefaith said: Judges don't render judgments on things such as this without consulting the text of laws and related case law (if any) not to mention deliberation with other SCOTUS judges if she were one. There is nothing in the Constitution about postponing an election. She's supposedly an Originalist. If she goes on to say that a President can delay an election, she will be an activist judge, something Republicans supposedly are 100% against. Who's shocked? Absolutely no one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 14 hours ago, keepthefaith said: Judges don't render judgments on things such as this without consulting the text of laws and related case law (if any) not to mention deliberation with other SCOTUS judges if she were one. The date for the election and the date for inauguration are in the Constitution 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 On 10/12/2020 at 6:38 PM, keepthefaith said: Rest assured, there will be legal battles that commence right after the election regardless of who it seems won. Trump's crew will probably have cause due to the volume and lack of custody of mailed ballots. Biden's side will likely challenge counting deadlines. That and it doesn't seem like a stretch that recounts in close states and precincts will happen. Both sides have dozens of lawyers hired already. Yup. It’s going to be a ***** show either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Assuming he loses, if he tries to stay in the White House on January 20th he'll be removed by either the Secret Service or FBI. Physically if need be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 30 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Assuming he loses, if he tries to stay in the White House on January 20th he'll be removed by either the Secret Service or FBI. Physically if need be. I hope you're right, but I sincerely doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 7 minutes ago, Kemp said: I hope you're right, but I sincerely doubt it. The Constitution says the duly elected President is inaugurated on January 20th. If that's Biden them Trump will be leaving the White House one way or the other. I suspect all Republicans will support that, or else they'll lose their party for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 36 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Assuming he loses, if he tries to stay in the White House on January 20th he'll be removed by either the Secret Service or FBI. Physically if need be. ...but what if Barr agrees with Trump’s claim that he only lost because of possible voting irregularities ? That is the cover Trump needs to give his claim legitimacy. It appears to many, including me, that Barr has been finding a way to favor Trump’s causes. This is Trump’s number one cause. So asking directly, will he have support of average Republicans if Barr claims we need to look into voting irregularities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said: ...but what if Barr agrees with Trump’s claim that he only lost because of possible voting irregularities ? That is the cover Trump needs to give his claim legitimacy. It appears to many, including me, that Barr has been finding a way to favor Trump’s causes. This is Trump’s number one cause. So asking directly, will he have support of average Republicans if Barr claims we need to look into voting irregularities? I would say no. My guess is that the Senate will turn Democrat after the election, and if lame duck Republicans try to force this then Republicans will destroy their party for the foreseeable future. The legal wrangling will be potentially crazy on both sides, but if Biden wins, say, Florida, on election night then any chance Trump wins is lost, and I think Republicans would go into self-survival mode. I also don't think the Supreme court will look upon this favorably. Roberts is very cognizant of his place in history; he will not want the Roberts Court to be seen as giving an election to one who has not won it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 15 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: The Constitution says the duly elected President is inaugurated on January 20th. If that's Biden them Trump will be leaving the White House one way or the other. I suspect all Republicans will support that, or else they'll lose their party for decades. The Republican Party no longer exists, no matter how this plays out. They will try to resurrect it, but I think it's too late. They will either be forced to be remade as the Trump Party or fail to exist. When faced with that choice, they will become the party of Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Just now, Kemp said: The Republican Party no longer exists, no matter how this plays out. They will try to resurrect it, but I think it's too late. They will either be forced to be remade as the Trump Party or fail to exist. When faced with that choice, they will become the party of Trump. I don't think so. I think you'll see true republicans like Romney take the party back. At least I hope so; having a Republican party that would go back to its roots as a party of true conservatism rather than the charade we see now would be good for the country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I don't think so. I think you'll see true republicans like Romney take the party back. At least I hope so; having a Republican party that would go back to its roots as a party of true conservatism rather than the charade we see now would be good for the country. It would be great for the country, but hardcore Trumpers want no part of that and they now represent the majority of Republican voters. The Republican Party of 4 years ago, is gone. It may come back. It might not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I would say no. My guess is that the Senate will turn Democrat after the election, and if lame duck Republicans try to force this then Republicans will destroy their party for the foreseeable future. The legal wrangling will be potentially crazy on both sides, but if Biden wins, say, Florida, on election night then any chance Trump wins is lost, and I think Republicans would go into self-survival mode. I also don't think the Supreme court will look upon this favorably. Roberts is very cognizant of his place in history; he will not want the Roberts Court to be seen as giving an election to one who has not won it. Appreciate the reply. I don’t think the Senate comes into the discussion, short another impeachment. They have shown no appetite to go against Trump. The Supreme Court May eventually enter into it but for a long time it will be in dispute. I have been surprised by how many Republicans don’t see Bill Barr as doing anything politically slanted up to this point. They claim the Mueller investigation found nothing largely owing to Barr, imo. The Flynn and Stone case interference is rationalized by Republicans, because of Barr’s statements too. I hope you are correct but I think Barr is that AG that Trump always wanted...a protector 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Just now, Kemp said: It would be great for the country, but hardcore Trumpers want no part of that and they now represent the majority of Republican voters. The Republican Party of 4 years ago, is gone. It may come back. It might not. Hardcore Trumpers are maybe 29% of the electorate. They are not taking over the country as the AOC wing will never take over the party. The Trump legacy will hopefully be that the majority of the country that are middle right or left will demand change. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 Just now, oldmanfan said: Hardcore Trumpers are maybe 29% of the electorate. They are not taking over the country as the AOC wing will never take over the party. The Trump legacy will hopefully be that the majority of the country that are middle right or left will demand change. We disagree. I hope I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Bob in Mich said: Appreciate the reply. I don’t think the Senate comes into the discussion, short another impeachment. They have shown no appetite to go against Trump. The Supreme Court May eventually enter into it but for a long time it will be in dispute. I have been surprised by how many Republicans don’t see Bill Barr as doing anything politically slanted up to this point. They claim the Mueller investigation found nothing largely owing to Barr, imo. The Flynn and Stone case interference is rationalized by Republicans, because of Barr’s statements too. I hope you are correct but I think Barr is that AG that Trump always wanted...a protector It will still come down to courts if that happened and I don’t see either state or federal courts acquiescing to an election being stolen. Just now, Kemp said: We disagree. I hope I'm wrong. I hope you are as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: It will still come down to courts if that happened and I don’t see either state or federal courts acquiescing to an election being stolen. All those Trump judges have been put in place for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Kemp said: All those Trump judges have been put in place for a reason. again, I do not see Roberts wanting to destroy the history of the Roberts court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 13 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: again, I do not see Roberts wanting to destroy the history of the Roberts court. Once Barrett's in, it won't matter what Roberts wants. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in Mich Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: again, I do not see Roberts wanting to destroy the history of the Roberts court. Roberts still only has one vote, right? Aside from Roberts, there will be 3 Trump appointees and, what, 2 other Conservative Justices? One thing has always bothered me about Trump ‘hires’. We know from the tell-all books that he demands loyalty in his people. Seems all but certain that anyone he has ‘hired’ has pledged some level of loyalty or at least agreement with Trump on key issues, like favoring him in the election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said: Roberts still only has one vote, right? Aside from Roberts, there will be 3 Trump appointees and, what, 2 other Conservative Justices? One thing has always bothered me about Trump ‘hires’. We know from the tell-all books that he demands loyalty in his people. Seems all but certain that anyone he has ‘hired’ has pledged some level of loyalty or at least agreement with Trump on key issues, like favoring him in the election. I do not believe that all those judges are in Trump's pocket. You saw Gorsuch rule against him on the transgender case, Kavanaugh rule against him on the case about being immune from prosecution. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: The date for the election and the date for inauguration are in the Constitution 28 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: The Constitution says the duly elected President is inaugurated on January 20th. If that's Biden them Trump will be leaving the White House one way or the other. I suspect all Republicans will support that, or else they'll lose their party for decades. Exactly. Originally, the new Congress was seated in December after the election and the President and VP didn't take office until March of the following year. The Twentieth Amendment changed that to Congress taking office on January 3 and the President/Vice President on January 20. 22 minutes ago, Bob in Mich said: ...but what if Barr agrees with Trump’s claim that he only lost because of possible voting irregularities ? That is the cover Trump needs to give his claim legitimacy. It appears to many, including me, that Barr has been finding a way to favor Trump’s causes. This is Trump’s number one cause. So asking directly, will he have support of average Republicans if Barr claims we need to look into voting irregularities? The Attorney General has no standing in this issue. In a disputed election, the new Congress sworn in on January 3 decides. That's also specified in the 20th Amendment. It's likely that the new Congress sworn in on January 3 will be Democratic but even if the Republicans hold on to the Senate, I think that enough Republican Senators -- perhaps even all -- will join the Democrats to give Biden the election because they care about their country and its institutions. They don't want to turn a wannabe dictator into a actual one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 34 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I don't think so. I think you'll see true republicans like Romney take the party back. At least I hope so; having a Republican party that would go back to its roots as a party of true conservatism rather than the charade we see now would be good for the country. LOL. You're kidding, right? 25 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Hardcore Trumpers are maybe 29% of the electorate. They are not taking over the country as the AOC wing will never take over the party. The Trump legacy will hopefully be that the majority of the country that are middle right or left will demand change. Maybe not take over, ,but fracture it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 1 minute ago, SoTier said: Exactly. Originally, the new Congress was seated in December after the election and the President and VP didn't take office until March of the following year. The Twentieth Amendment changed that to Congress taking office on January 3 and the President/Vice President on January 20. The Attorney General has no standing in this issue. In a disputed election, the new Congress sworn in on January 3 decides. That's also specified in the 20th Amendment. It's likely that the new Congress sworn in on January 3 will be Democratic but even if the Republicans hold on to the Senate, I think that enough Republican Senators -- perhaps even all -- will join the Democrats to give Biden the election because they care about their country and its institutions. They don't want to turn a wannabe dictator into a actual one. After everything you've seen, expecting Republican Senators to become honorable sounds far-fetched to me, especially if they lose their seats. They will dispute their losses just like Trump will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Just now, Doc said: LOL. You're kidding, right? Maybe not take over, ,but fracture it. I don't think you have a clue what a true Republican looks like. If you think its's someone who supports Trump you're wrong. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 36 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I don't think so. I think you'll see true republicans like Romney take the party back. At least I hope so; having a Republican party that would go back to its roots as a party of true conservatism rather than the charade we see now would be good for the country. I think that the Republicans will continue to be dominated by the Radical Right for a few more election cycles -- until they get tired of continually losing because their ideas don't resonate with most Americans -- or the party fades away and results in the rise of a new party that's fiscally conservative and socially moderate. A lot of rank-and-file Republicans have become independents already. 27 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Hardcore Trumpers are maybe 29% of the electorate. They are not taking over the country as the AOC wing will never take over the party. The Trump legacy will hopefully be that the majority of the country that are middle right or left will demand change. Trump doesn't really have a political organization; he's got a personal following made up of family and sycophants. Trump's 2016 victory was a reflection with the American electorate's unease with the way the country was going, but he's not only failed to deliver on any of his 2016 promises, his handling of the pandemic has revealed his stupidity, incompetence and self-absorption. Trump's supporters in the GOP have been tarred with that same brush, and as soon as it becomes clear that Covid Donnie is done -- as in Biden accumulates 271 EC votes -- GOP politicians will bail on him. It's already happening. In my Congressional district, Tom Reed, ardent Trumpster in 2016, hasn't mentioned "Trump" in his re-election bid at all. Hell, you wouldn't even know he's a Republican. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 1 hour ago, SoTier said: Exactly. Originally, the new Congress was seated in December after the election and the President and VP didn't take office until March of the following year. The Twentieth Amendment changed that to Congress taking office on January 3 and the President/Vice President on January 20. The Attorney General has no standing in this issue. In a disputed election, the new Congress sworn in on January 3 decides. That's also specified in the 20th Amendment. It's likely that the new Congress sworn in on January 3 will be Democratic but even if the Republicans hold on to the Senate, I think that enough Republican Senators -- perhaps even all -- will join the Democrats to give Biden the election because they care about their country and its institutions. They don't want to turn a wannabe dictator into a actual one. Just hope the election goes smoothly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 So much paranoia dispensed in this last hour or so. What time does Dr. Hartley show up to deal with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 54 minutes ago, SoTier said: I think that the Republicans will continue to be dominated by the Radical Right for a few more election cycles -- until they get tired of continually losing because their ideas don't resonate with most Americans -- or the party fades away and results in the rise of a new party that's fiscally conservative and socially moderate. A lot of rank-and-file Republicans have become independents already. Can you define radical right from a policy perspective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, oldmanfan said: I don't think you have a clue what a true Republican looks like. If you think its's someone who supports Trump you're wrong. And you do and it's Romney? OK. Does any Republican here agree with this? Edited October 14, 2020 by Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 they sought to make fundamental (hence "radical") changes within institutions and remove from political life persons and institutions that threatened their values or economic interests. Yes, I do. If Biden wins 271 EC votes, then he's won the election. Republican Senators, just like Democratic Senators, and voters of whatever party affiliation or not, love their country. Moreover, politicians are always worried about their next election. I can't see them sacrificing both their country and their careers to support an incompetent wannabe dictator whom the electorate has already rejected. 29 minutes ago, keepthefaith said: Can you define radical right from a policy perspective? The Radical Right is made up of the extreme conservatives who want to turn the clock back to the 19th century. Neo-liberals crossed with social Darwinists probably describes them best. I hope that shoe doesn't fit you. Unfortunately, it fits some Republican officeholders/candidates too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reality Check Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 For those people who are concerned about Trump losing and not leaving, you should be. Why? Because there won't be anything you can do about. If your scared of this common cold epidemic, you definitely aren't going to be up for a direct conflict with the US military. You can post your complaints here of course. That will make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted October 15, 2020 Author Share Posted October 15, 2020 A poster I have set to ignore is currently the most recent commenter in 10 different threads. Sounds like a breakdown. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Reality Check said: For those people who are concerned about Trump losing and not leaving, you should be. Why? Because there won't be anything you can do about. If your scared of this common cold epidemic, you definitely aren't going to be up for a direct conflict with the US military. You can post your complaints here of course. That will make a difference. That's why a great big election victory will really be great! We The People! The Military won't help Trump. Nope 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Kemp said: A poster I have set to ignore is currently the most recent commenter in 10 different threads. Sounds like a breakdown. Yeah, it's annoying. I haven't opened any because I don't expect any substance from the posts, but it's never a good look when the top 8+ threads all have the same picture next to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 10 minutes ago, Kemp said: A poster I have set to ignore is currently the most recent commenter in 10 different threads. Sounds like a breakdown. So you are for censorship. I thought so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted October 15, 2020 Author Share Posted October 15, 2020 1 hour ago, RochesterRob said: So you are for censorship. I thought so. Wow! An adult who doesn't understand what censorship even means! Then again, you are a cult member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 31 minutes ago, Kemp said: Wow! An adult who doesn't understand what censorship even means! Then again, you are a cult member. Self created drama is a poor deflection mechanism for avoiding the truth. Have fun in your echo chamber as the rational posters migrate elsewhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted October 15, 2020 Share Posted October 15, 2020 42 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: Self created drama is a poor deflection mechanism for avoiding the truth. Have fun in your echo chamber as the rational posters migrate elsewhere. No, you said something really stupid and he called you on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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