cage Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Happy said: I have an idea, how about the military pull its funding for the NFL to play the NA at the beginning of the games? If the NFL cancels "Salute to Service" and playing the NA, then so be it. Also, politicians, including the President, should refrain from tweeting/making public comments on the NFL. Get politics completely out of the games. I've said before, and will say again, keep social justice issues and politics out of sports; they don't mix and most spectators don't want to see these displays. What you're saying just isn't practical. Beyond sports, most business are also embracing these protests and re-examining their policies. I'm not going to exalt their past righteousness and they may not get it right this time either. However, everyone has to recognize that every company, sports league or the entertainment industry is made up of people who have thoughts about this. To expect that everyone just shuts up and do their jobs when they are surrounded by the affect of these problems is unrealistic. I work for a Fortune 50 company and my son graduate last year and is working for a much smaller company. Both companies have given their employees room to express their thoughts, feelings and even encouragement to protest. My son's company even gave time off to people to attend protests. The sports industry given their predominant players are African-American is even more affected. Also beyond the physical component, sports has an enormous mental aspect to it around motivation and intestinal fortitude. To think that could be just turned off because you don't want to hear it is both selfish and unrealistic. These protests have a deep multi-generational cause to them and have deep pain for those who have been offended. Nobody can be a robot and so insular as you suggest. Edited June 6, 2020 by cage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderingsquid Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 37 minutes ago, eball said: Oh really? Why do I have a hard time believing that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bferra13 Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, thunderingsquid said: That article doesnt make mention of number of violent crimes and or arrests proportionate to race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 10 minutes ago, Bferra13 said: That article doesnt make mention of number of violent crimes and or arrests proportionate to race. ...which is the whole “systemic” part of the conversation. That’s, in a lot of ways, what this entire conversation is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderingsquid Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, Bferra13 said: That article doesnt make mention of number of violent crimes and or arrests proportionate to race. I very respectfully disagree with the premise, my brother. Severely empathy challenged white people need to take a deep breath, pause for a minute and look at the whole picture. It's not about arrest numbers or which minority had the highest rates of excessive force or who's been pulled over the most. It's the WHOLE THING TOGETHER. EVERYTHING in the CJ system from everyone that's pulled over or approached on the street on down the line to who's in the joint and who gets let out and who doesn't. BIG PICTURE There is a strong case to be made that there are TWO DIFFERENT SYSTEMS. And folks that try to equivocate are a lot of the same OTHERWISE GOOD FOLKS that don't want a kneeler in their town or on their football team. It is distracting from the big picture IMHO. Just now, Kirby Jackson said: ...which is the whole “systemic” part of the conversation. That’s, in a lot of ways, what this entire conversation is about. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 18 minutes ago, cage said: What you're saying just isn't practical. Beyond sports, most business are also embracing these protests and re-examining their policies. I'm not going to exalt their past righteousness and they may not get it right this time either. However, everyone has to recognize that every company, sports league or the entertainment industry is made up of people who have thoughts about this. To expect that everyone just shuts up and do their jobs when they are surrounded by the affect of these problems is unrealistic. I work for a Fortune 50 company and my son graduate last year and is working for a much smaller company. Both companies have given their employees room to express their thoughts, feelings and even encouragement to protest. My son's company even gave time off to people to attend protests. The sports industry given their predominant players are African-American is even more affected. Also beyond the physical component, sports has an enormous mental aspect to it around motivation and intestinal fortitude. To think that could be just turned off because you don't want to hear it is both selfish and unrealistic. These protests have a deep multi-generational cause to them and have deep pain for those who have been offended. Nobody can be a robot and so insular as you suggest. You took it several layers deeper than what I suggested. All I suggested is that the military pull its funding for the NFL, and let the NFL determine if they still want to do Salute to Service as well as play the NA. I would guess that the NFL would at least not play the NA before games; if so, then so be it. I think it would be better if the NFL did not play the NA before the games. Asking politicians to not tweet or make comments on the NFL might be asking too much, though it would be nice. I never said the players should turn off any thoughts or opinions of police, protests, racism, etc. That would be impossible as people are not machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share Posted June 6, 2020 Is that what this has become? A contest between how many whites vs. how many blacks have been subject to police brutality over the years? WTF!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 1 hour ago, BigBillsFan said: He was as wrong now as he was then. If the argument is cops don't kill unarmed whites then look up some stats, they die at a higher rate. Some cops are just bullies and I've been shaken down once badly, and bullied many times for no reason. We should never listen to the mob, they are always wrong. Correction - they die in higher numbers, but not higher rates (per the information I've found, if you have to the contrary feel free to share). My information says that black people are ~2.7x more likely to die at the hands of police, meaning the per-capita rate must be higher. But you're absolutely correct that people with an inner bully will let it out whenever they think they can. And because there is a lack of oversight in many police departments (the fox watches the other foxes) and a culture of silence, there is a lack of accountability. 1 hour ago, Happy said: I have an idea, how about the military pull its funding for the NFL to play the NA at the beginning of the games? If the NFL cancels "Salute to Service" and playing the NA, then so be it. Also, politicians, including the President, should refrain from tweeting/making public comments on the NFL. Get politics completely out of the games. I've said before, and will say again, keep social justice issues and politics out of sports; they don't mix and most spectators don't want to see these displays. Fact. When Kaep initially did his kneeling bit, the SF 49ers were not going to make it a big issue: The 49ers issued a statement about Kaepernick's decision: "The national anthem is and always will be a special part of the pre-game ceremony. It is an opportunity to honor our country and reflect on the great liberties we are afforded as its citizens. In respecting such American principles as freedom of religion and freedom of expression, we recognize the right of an individual to choose and participate, or not, in our celebration of the national anthem." Niners coach Chip Kelly told reporters Saturday that Kaepernick's decision not to stand during the national anthem is "his right as a citizen" and said "it's not my right to tell him not to do something." The NFL also released a statement, obtained by NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport: "Players are encouraged but not required to stand during the playing of the national anthem." It wasn't until politicans, including the President, tweeted and made public comments that frothed people up and it became a big "my country right or wrong" test of patriotism. I agree that politics should ideally be kept out of the games, but the players are human and have human opinions on current events that hit very close to home for many of them. What I'd really like to see is a national consensus on clear measures to at least TRY to address the problem of police accountability for civilian injuries or deaths. Because then the point would become moot. 29 minutes ago, K-9 said: Is that what this has become? A contest between how many whites vs. how many blacks have been subject to police brutality over the years? WTF!!! Steady on, mate. Misinformation is out there. Correct it and go on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 17 hours ago, Happy said: Are they going to allow and/or encourage more players to kneel during the Anthem? If so, will the league (or NFLPA) mandate that Kapernick be brought back? If my questions are affirmative, oil and water are being mixed by playing the Anthem; I would pull the plug on playing the NA at the beginning of the games if I were Goodell. The owners have to also keep in mind that they have a going concern with the NFL, and while business is good at this point (revenue wise), it can go downhill. A balance needs to be reached because nothing is too big to fail. Social issues and pro sports are not a good combination; people watch and follow sports to get away from the rest of the world for a while. I could agree more !! And I’ve said it few times on here about pulling the plug on playing the NA ( IMO ) would be a good idea .. can we just get one day a week where we can forget about politics and just relax and enjoy a game of football with a good burger/wings ( no ranch ) and a cold beer ? I hope I’m not being selfish Go Bills !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: So in other words, “shut up and dribble” Yeah, pretty much. I don't give twoshiits about there political beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig1Hunter Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 17 hours ago, K-9 said: I think that misses the point. It’s not about players kneeling, it’s about the NFL admitting that they were wrong about there being a systemic problem with police brutality in the black community. But... they weren’t. It’s a boogeyman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share Posted June 6, 2020 14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Steady on, mate. Misinformation is out there. Correct it and go on. I’m perfectly steady, thank you. But it’s hard to sit here and read, in the midst of what’s occurred over the last dozen days or so, some of the stuff posted to justify certain takes on the matter. Imo, that qualifies as a WTF moment if anything does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 7 minutes ago, westside2 said: Yeah, pretty much. I don't give twoshiits about there political beliefs. You might be interested in the work of Laura Ingraham. I think you’ll find yourself nodding along to her musings. If you’re looking for someone to help you silence the voices of an oppressed population she’s the one for you!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share Posted June 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, Sig1Hunter said: But... they weren’t. It’s a boogeyman. The NFL officially thinks otherwise as evidenced by their statement yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: It wasn't until politicans, including the President, tweeted and made public comments that frothed people up and it became a big "my country right or wrong" test of patriotism. I agree that politics should ideally be kept out of the games, but the players are human and have human opinions on current events that hit very close to home for many of them. What I'd really like to see is a national consensus on clear measures to at least TRY to address the problem of police accountability for civilian injuries or deaths. Because then the point would become moot. I mentioned that it would be good if politicians stopped making public statements (incl tweets) about the NFL. But like players, politicians are human too, though it is actually their job to comment on social issues. Again, I would like to see them not comment on pro sports like I would like to see players not display their social issue opinions on game day. A national consensus and police accountability would be good. Not all police are good guys; I went to college in a small mid Atlantic, mid southern town. The local police force was highly regarded and never questioned. That leads to abuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 12 minutes ago, westside2 said: Yeah, pretty much. I don't give twoshiits about there political beliefs. + 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig1Hunter Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, K-9 said: The NFL officially thinks otherwise as evidenced by their statement yesterday. Yeah, but I don’t care what the NFL thinks. Just like I don’t care what the mob thinks. The NFL apparently does. I suspect they, along with every other business pandering to the mob, will feel the impact of said pandering when Americans with more than a pile of mashed potatoes between their ears start talking with their wallets. I care what objective facts say. Objective facts say: boogeyman. BOO! Edited June 6, 2020 by Sig1Hunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: You might be interested in the work of Laura Ingraham. I think you’ll find yourself nodding along to her musings. If you’re looking for someone to help you silence the voices of an oppressed population she’s the one for you!! How about having an honest conversation. It's not police killing blacks, it's blacks killing blacks that's the problem Blaming it on white people is such a cowardly response. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 1 minute ago, westside2 said: How about having an honest conversation. It's not police killing blacks, it's blacks killing blacks that's the problem Blaming it on white people is such a cowardly response. Oh, I didn’t know. ??♂️ 3 minutes ago, Putin said: + 1 1 minute ago, westside2 said: How about having an honest conversation. It's not police killing blacks, it's blacks killing blacks that's the problem Blaming it on white people is such a cowardly response. Do you guys get pissed off when the NFL players wear pink to fight cancer? I mean, they should just shut and play right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share Posted June 6, 2020 Just now, Sig1Hunter said: Yeah, but I don’t care what the NFL thinks. Just like I don’t care what the mob thinks. The NFL apparently does. I suspect they, along with every other business pandering to the mob, will feel the impact of said pandering when Americans with more than a pile of mashed potatoes between their ears starts talking with their wallets. I care what objective facts say. Objective facts say: boogeyman. BOO! Seems to be more your boogeyman more than anyone else’s. BOO!? Really? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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