Scraps Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Just now, Doc said: Oh, my bad. I didn't realize you were (still) one of them. No wonder you haven't seen it. Again, it's not unproven and there is no other treatment. And if the side effects are so bad, let's pull it off the shelves right now. Sound good? There are other potential treatments. Even your man Donald Trump mentioned some of them yesterday. There is a reason this drug is not OTC. Its because of the potentially lethal side effects. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Just now, Scraps said: There are other potential treatments. Even your man Donald Trump mentioned some of them yesterday. There is a reason this drug is not OTC. Its because of the potentially lethal side effects. No one has ever argued there aren't other treatments. No one has ever argued there aren't side effects (to most medications). The truth is, Trump was right. The drug is helping a lot of people. And there is a large contingent in the media and partisan politics (but I repeat myself) who'd rather see Trump be wrong and people die than for Trump to be right and people to live. Don't be one of those fools. Be better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said: No one has ever argued there aren't other treatments. Doc did. He wrote "it's not unproven and there is no other treatment". Are you going to call him out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Scraps said: There are other potential treatments. Even your man Donald Trump mentioned some of them yesterday. There is a reason this drug is not OTC. Its because of the potentially lethal side effects. There were no other treatments when Trump started touting it and at present, convalescent plasma is in very short supply. Good luck getting any if you get Wuhan virus. And it's OTC. Just find some fish tank cleaner... 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, Scraps said: There is a reason this drug is not OTC. Its because of the potentially lethal side effects. Who's saying it needs to be OTC. And what are these LETHAL side effects you talk about?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: Who's saying it needs to be OTC. And what are these LETHAL side effects you talk about?? No one and there aren't. Scraps is just parroting what he's been told to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Just now, Doc said: No one and there aren't. Scraps is just parroting what he's been told to say. And so what if there are lethal side effects. Pretty much every prescribed medication does. Jesus that's the longest part of prescription med commercials is the listing of the side effects. May cause........................................ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: And so what if there are lethal side effects. No point in trying to convince you of anything. You don't care if people die. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: And so what if there are lethal side effects. Pretty much every prescribed medication does. Jesus that's the longest part of prescription med commercials is the listing of the side effects. May cause........................................ Yeah, SIDE EFFECTS is a stupid argument because the drug is used by millions daily and has been for decades without a care about the side effects before, for conditions that won't kill you/as quickly as Wuhan virus can. Whenever someone uses it, I know what they are and dismiss them for it. Just now, Scraps said: No point in trying to convince you of anything. You don't care if people die. Oh, the hypocrisy! Edited April 11, 2020 by Doc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Doc said: Yeah, SIDE EFFECTS is a stupid argument because the drug is used by millions daily and has been for decades without a care about the side effects before, for conditions that won't kill you/as quickly as Wuhan virus can. Whenever someone uses it, I know what they are and dismiss them for it. No. It has been used under a doctors care because of the side effects. People have been taken off of it because of the side effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Just now, Scraps said: No point in trying to convince you of anything. You don't care if people die. So what are you trying to convince me of? I just joined this conversation. And yeah ***** it. Let them all die. Where did you get that opinion of me from. Please point out which post of mine exactly helped you to come to the conclusion that I don't care if people died. Holy hell dude. Wanting people to have access to the drug is just the opposite. I will wait patiently for your answers to my questions. This should be fun. Just now, Scraps said: No. It has been used under a doctors care because of the side effects. People have been taken off of it because of the side effects. People have been taken off of every prescribed medicine under the sun due to the side effects. Hysterical much? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Scraps said: No. It has been used under a doctors care because of the side effects. People have been taken off of it because of the side effects. And that's different from every other drug...how? And again, if it's SO dangerous, why hasn't it been pulled? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, Doc said: Yeah, SIDE EFFECTS is a stupid argument because the drug is used by millions daily and has been for decades without a care about the side effects before, for conditions that won't kill you/as quickly as Wuhan virus can. Whenever someone uses it, I know what they are and dismiss them for it. Oh, the hypocrisy! What hyypocrisy? I've said numerous times that it should go through clinical trials and I have no problem with it being used for compassionate purposes. You just want to set any fears aside and go full bore with an unproven, potentially lethal drug. 1 minute ago, Doc said: And that's different from every other drug...how? And again, if it's SO dangerous, why hasn't it been pulled? Dude, not everything is either black or white. There are shades of gray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Just now, Scraps said: What hyypocrisy? I've said numerous times that it should go through clinical trials and I have no problem with it being used for compassionate purposes. You just want to set any fears aside and go full bore with an unproven, potentially lethal drug. The hypocrisy in saying you don't care if people die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Just now, Doc said: The hypocrisy in saying you don't care if people die. I said that? Where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Scraps said: I said that? Where? You said that to Chef Jim. Because he (we) want to see people being treated with a drug that is safe, considering it's being used by hundreds of millions daily, and which can prevent people from dying from Wuhan virus. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, Doc said: You said that to Chef Jim. Because he (we) want to see people being treated with a drug that is safe, considering it's being used by hundreds of millions daily, and which can prevent people from dying from Wuhan virus. What he said was "And so what if there are lethal side effects". This is a casual disregard for life. Show me where I've said I don't care if people die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Scraps said: What he said was "And so what if there are lethal side effects". This is a casual disregard for life. Show me where I've said I don't care if people die. You don't care because you want to deny them HCQ. And he was saying that while it has lethal side effects (like the vast majority of drugs), they are extremely rare. Otherwise the drug would not be in use today. Edited April 11, 2020 by Doc 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 39 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: See: Nevada and Michigan to start. They BANNED its use for a short time -- to "get Trump", then realized, "oops, it's working for a lot of people" and changed course. Why Michigan issued a reminder regarding HCQ. "The Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs has received multiple allegations of Michigan physicians inappropriately prescribing hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine to themselves, family, friends, and/or coworkers without a legitimate medical purpose." This takes the drug away from people who need it for other purposes or ever Covid-19, which is why some are so critical of Trump touting this drug so much. I hope this drug proves useful, but I'd like to see the people who need this drug for proven purposes, clinical trials and a ramping up of production first. 4 minutes ago, Doc said: You don't care because you want to deny them HCQ. And he was saying that while it has lethal side effects (like the vast majority of drugs), they are extremely rare. Otherwise the drug would not be in use today. Where have I ever denied HCQ to anyone. I;ve repeatedly said, including less than 1/2 hour ago to you "I've said numerous times that it should go through clinical trials and I have no problem with it being used for compassionate purposes. You just want to set any fears aside and go full bore with an unproven, potentially lethal drug." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Scraps said: Why Michigan issued a reminder regarding HCQ. "The Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs has received multiple allegations of Michigan physicians inappropriately prescribing hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine to themselves, family, friends, and/or coworkers without a legitimate medical purpose." This takes the drug away from people who need it for other purposes or ever Covid-19, which is why some are so critical of Trump touting this drug so much. I hope this drug proves useful, but I'd like to see the people who need this drug for proven purposes, clinical trials and a ramping up of production first. No, people were critical because they claimed the drug was dangerous and was giving false hope. The other stuff is peripheral to that and while you are correct that the drug may be taken away from those who use it for other reasons, we're in a pandemic here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Just now, Doc said: No, people were critical because they claimed the drug was dangerous and was giving false hope. The other stuff is peripheral to that and while you are correct that the drug may be taken away from those who use it for other reasons, we're in a pandemic here. I'll take the stated reason in the link I provided over your political re-write, given your propensity to not understand basic english. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 19 minutes ago, Scraps said: What he said was "And so what if there are lethal side effects". This is a casual disregard for life. Show me where I've said I don't care if people die. And my point was that pretty much every drug on the planet has lethal side effects. Do me a favor and I'd like to know. How many people have died from these lethal side effects. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, Scraps said: I'll take the stated reason in the link I provided over your political re-write, given your propensity to not understand basic english. Of course you will. Because you can't think for yourself. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, Doc said: Of course you will. Because you can't think for yourself. No I'm just not so blindly arrogant. I'll leave that to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Just now, Scraps said: No I'm just not so blindly arrogant. I'll leave that to you. You're just blindly ignorant. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 8 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: you’re an idiot if you don’t have q baby and Tibs blocked then i'm an idiot. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 15 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: And my point was that pretty much every drug on the planet has lethal side effects. Do me a favor and I'd like to know. How many people have died from these lethal side effects. I'm not going to answer your obviously unfair question. You asked about side effects earlier so here is one cardiologists point of view. "He added: "This particular medicine is probably the only medication I know of that has become a Republican or a Democrat medication. That's just crazy." Prescribing physicians must assess individual patient risk by establishing the so-called QTc interval — an indicator of the health of the heart's electrical recharging system, Ackerman said. A patient with a significantly prolonged QTc is at increased risk for severe disturbances of the heart's electrical system that can lead to sudden cardiac death. Ackerman said there are as many as 100 FDA-approved medications that can potentially prolong the QTc interval like hydroxychloroquine, and one of them is azithromycin. This combination, which Ackerman refers to as the “corona cocktail,” could be particularly dangerous in the wrong patient. "It just means that the perfect storm is brewing. It's sort of like walking to the edge of the cliff. You are getting closer and closer to that proverbial edge," Ackerman said. Hydroxychloroquine's fate as an FDA-approved drug to treat the coronavirus remains uncertain, Ackerman added. "Yes, these medications overall are really, really safe, so in that sense the president is right. But really safe in a population sense doesn't mean that drug is going to be safe enough for the particular patient I'm about to treat," he said." Why is this a Republican vs Deomocrat medication? Like Dr Ackerman, I don't get that. I'm not really either but it seem like the right wing media is making this a cultural divide issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Here's another drug with promising anecdotal findings that it could help worth looking in to. More clinical trials are obviously needed. Compassionate Use of Remdesivir for Patients with Severe Covid-19 To date, no therapy has demonstrated efficacy for patients with Covid-19. This preliminary report describes the clinical outcomes in a small cohort of patients who were severely ill with Covid-19 and were treated with remdesivir. Although data from several ongoing randomized, controlled trials will soon provide more informative evidence regarding the safety and efficacy of remdesivir for Covid-19, the outcomes observed in this compassionate-use program are the best currently available data. Specifically, improvement in oxygen-support status was observed in 68% of patients, and overall mortality was 13% over a median follow-up of 18 days. In a recent randomized, controlled trial of lopinavir–ritonavir in patients hospitalized for Covid-19, the 28-day mortality was 22%. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, Scraps said: I'm not going to answer your obviously unfair question. You asked about side effects earlier so here is one cardiologists point of view. "He added: "This particular medicine is probably the only medication I know of that has become a Republican or a Democrat medication. That's just crazy." Prescribing physicians must assess individual patient risk by establishing the so-called QTc interval — an indicator of the health of the heart's electrical recharging system, Ackerman said. A patient with a significantly prolonged QTc is at increased risk for severe disturbances of the heart's electrical system that can lead to sudden cardiac death. Ackerman said there are as many as 100 FDA-approved medications that can potentially prolong the QTc interval like hydroxychloroquine, and one of them is azithromycin. This combination, which Ackerman refers to as the “corona cocktail,” could be particularly dangerous in the wrong patient. "It just means that the perfect storm is brewing. It's sort of like walking to the edge of the cliff. You are getting closer and closer to that proverbial edge," Ackerman said. Hydroxychloroquine's fate as an FDA-approved drug to treat the coronavirus remains uncertain, Ackerman added. "Yes, these medications overall are really, really safe, so in that sense the president is right. But really safe in a population sense doesn't mean that drug is going to be safe enough for the particular patient I'm about to treat," he said." Why is this a Republican vs Deomocrat medication? Like Dr Ackerman, I don't get that. I'm not really either but it seem like the right wing media is making this a cultural divide issue. How many people have died from the side effects? Come on man! If you're so damn concerned about the LETHAL side effects it has to be quite a few. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Just now, Chef Jim said: How many people have died from the side effects? Come on man! If you're so damn concerned about the LETHAL side effects it has to be quite a few. I consider that to be unfair question. I gave you a chance to prove yourself somewhat reasonable. Now I know better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: How many people have died from the side effects? Come on man! If you're so damn concerned about the LETHAL side effects it has to be quite a few. He and his ilk should be pushing for a removal of HCQ from pharmacy shelves. No more HCQ for anyone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Scraps said: No. It has been used under a doctors care because of the side effects. People have been taken off of it because of the side effects. Have they been taken off of it when it was being given to them to treat Lupus, malaria or arthritis? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Just now, 3rdnlng said: Have they been taken off of it when it was being given to them to treat Lupus, malaria or arthritis? People who have been given this for Covid-19 have been taken off because of side effects. I'm sure that people suffering from lupus, malaria and arthritis have been taken off this because of side effects as well. That is why is is administered under a doctors supervision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, Scraps said: People who have been given this for Covid-19 have been taken off because of side effects. I'm sure that people suffering from lupus, malaria and arthritis have been taken off this because of side effects as well. That is why is is administered under a doctors supervision. Link? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Just now, 3rdnlng said: Link? Seriously? This drug has a list of side effects and you don't think anyone has ever been taken off of it because of the side effects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 holy *****. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 45 minutes ago, Scraps said: I consider that to be unfair question. I gave you a chance to prove yourself somewhat reasonable. Now I know better. Why is it unfair? Because it blows your argument out to the water? And I'm sorry don't hang on to your every post so I missed your giving me my chance to prove myself. Give it to me again. I'm an open book. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Scraps said: Seriously? This drug has a list of side effects and you don't think anyone has ever been taken off of it because of the side effects? Drugs have all kinds of side effects and you'll see them listed ad nauseum on the bottle. They even invariably say 'don't take_______________if your are allergic to it". All I was doing was asking you to back up your supposition. If you can't do it just say so. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 5 minutes ago, Scraps said: Seriously? This drug has a list of side effects and you don't think anyone has ever been taken off of it because of the side effects? So does Atorvastatin that I'm on. And I still take it with amazing results. What's your point??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Chef Jim said: Why is it unfair? Because it blows your argument out to the water? And I'm sorry don't hang on to your every post so I missed your giving me my chance to prove myself. Give it to me again. I'm an open book. No, its just a stupid question because the average person has no idea how many people have died from Hydroxychloroquine. You want to prove yourself? Answer your own question. You tell me how many people have die of hydroxychloroquine. You tell me how many people suffering from Covid-19 have been pulled of of hydroxychloroquine because they could not tolerate the drug? You tell me how many people who died with Covid-19 could have been saved if only they were given hydroxychloroquine? If you can't answer all of those questions, then it is unfair to expect me to do so. 19 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: So does Atorvastatin that I'm on. And I still take it with amazing results. What's your point??? I'm glad your doing well on that, whatever it is. Does that mean it is safe for everybody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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