The Big Gamble: Hydroxychloroquine

[Scraps]

6 minutes ago, GG said:

It's the equivalent of throwing a gun at a tank.

I'm confused.  What does throwing a gun into a tank do?  Were you maybe talking about a hand grenade?

[GG]

Just now, Scraps said:

I'm confused.  What does throwing a gun into a tank do?  Were you maybe talking about a hand grenade?

No most definitely a gun.   Without bullets. 

[Scraps]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

I thought you were accusing people In Michigan?  Now it’s Trump? 

Yeah both.  I know this is really difficult for you to comprehend but there isn't a glut of this drug in the country.  When Doctors are prescribing it for people who don't need it at all (Michigan) or it is being bought up by the government to fool Trumps base into believing he is addressing this issue, it causes shortages for those who have actual needs for this drug. 

[Scraps]

10 minutes ago, GG said:

No most definitely a gun.   Without bullets. 

Well I still don't get it but given the fact that you don't even know what Hydroxychloroquine is used for in this country...

[Chef Jim]

7 minutes ago, Scraps said:

Yeah both.  I know this is really difficult for you to comprehend but there isn't a glut of this drug in the country.  When Doctors are prescribing it for people who don't need it at all (Michigan) or it is being bought up by the government to fool Trumps base into believing he is addressing this issue, it causes shortages for those who have actual needs for this drug. 

So now they are prescribing it in Michigan? I thought they were hoarding it. This is very confusing. Now I know why YOU are so confused.

 

And now Trump is hoarding it to please his base. I wonder if that stuff is good for TDS. ***** the LETHAL side effects. Double up the dosage.  

[GG]

9 minutes ago, Scraps said:

Yeah both.  I know this is really difficult for you to comprehend but there isn't a glut of this drug in the country.  When Doctors are prescribing it for people who don't need it at all (Michigan) or it is being bought up by the government to fool Trumps base into believing he is addressing this issue, it causes shortages for those who have actual needs for this drug. 

 

Like this Trump supporter?

 

Funny how doctors in the field in NY are showing positive results in live cases and saving lives, but everything should stop because Trump endorsed it.  

[Scraps]

2 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

So now they are prescribing it in Michigan? I thought they were hoarding it. This is very confusing. Now I know why YOU are so confused.

 

And now Trump is hoarding it to please his base. I wonder if that stuff is good for TDS. ***** the LETHAL side effects. Double up the dosage.  

I'm sorry that your intellect is to limited to understand supply and demand.

[GG]

3 minutes ago, Scraps said:

Well I still don't get it but given the fact that you don't even know what Hydroxychloroquine is used for in this country...

Quick, how many lupus and arthritis patients died because of lack of available medications in the last month?

[Scraps]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

Like this Trump supporter?

 

Funny how doctors in the field in NY are showing positive results in live cases and saving lives, but everything should stop because Trump endorsed it.  

Great.  Hopefully clinical trials will support these anecdotal results.

[FireChans]

Hi, sort of an expert here. I know several instances personally where HCQ was used with good effect on COVID patients. What is your complaint?

1 minute ago, Scraps said:

I'm sorry that your intellect is to limited to understand supply and demand.

 

[GG]

Just now, Scraps said:

Great.  Hopefully clinical trials will support these anecdotal results.

So let's hold off on giving medicine to critically ill patients until the politicians and media tell us it is safe.

 

BTW, what exactly did Trump say to trigger you?

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Hi, sort of an expert here. I know several instances personally where HCQ was used with good effect on COVID patients. What is your complaint?

 

Trump recommended it, basically.  

[Chef Jim]

5 minutes ago, Scraps said:

I'm sorry that your intellect is to limited to understand supply and demand.

No no no I understand supply and demand. I really do. Unfortunately this isn’t what we’re talking about. See I asked who was hoarding and you posted some letter from STATE OF MICHIGAN
 DEPARTMENT OF LICENSING AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS (sorry about the all caps. I just cut and pasted that from the letter) that didn’t talk about hoarding. 
 

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Chef Jim

[FireChans]

Just now, GG said:

So let's hold off on giving medicine to critically ill patients until the politicians and media tell us it is safe.

 

BTW, what exactly did Trump say to trigger you?

There are 9 million other ways to treat lupus regardless.

[Scraps]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Hi, sort of an expert here. I know several instances personally where HCQ was used with good effect on COVID patients. What is your complaint?

 

Really?  What are your credentials?

[GG]

Just now, FireChans said:

There are 9 million other ways to treat lupus regardless.

Not according to Scraps apparently. 

[Chef Jim]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Hi, sort of an expert here. I know several instances personally where HCQ was used with good effect on COVID patients. What is your complaint?

 

Simple. Trump promoted it. 

[FireChans]

Just now, GG said:

Not according to Scraps apparently. 

Oh, and HCQ is used as a controller medication. Lupus flares of the life threatening variety don’t wait 2-4 weeks to respond to that medication. That’s why God invented prednisone.

2 minutes ago, Scraps said:

Really?  What are your credentials?

MD big boy.

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, Scraps said:

Really?  What are your credentials?

Not sure but I bet he ain’t an engineer like you are.  

[GG]

Just now, FireChans said:

Oh, and HCQ is used as a controller medication. Lupus flares of the life threatening variety don’t wait 2-4 weeks to respond to that medication. That’s why God invented prednisone.

Oh, don't get him started on Prednisone.  He probably also doesn't know how it's used for acute asthma.  

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

 

MD big boy.

Well thanks for playing but you lose. He’s an ENGINEER!!  

[Scraps]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

There are 9 million other ways to treat lupus regardless.

Really?  Can you list the first million?

1 minute ago, GG said:

Oh, don't get him started on Prednisone.  He probably also doesn't know how it's used for acute asthma.  

Dude, you didn't even know what HCQ was used for in this country.

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, Scraps said:

Really?  Can you list the first million?

Dude, you didn't even know what HCQ was used for in this country.

Still waiting on the hoarders dude. Who’s hoarding?

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Scraps said:

Really?  Can you list the first million?

Dude, you didn't even know what HCQ was used for in this country.

Methotrexate for starters. Costs about 15 bucks for a months worth or so without insurance.

 

What was your complaint, again?

[GG]

2 minutes ago, Scraps said:

Really?  Can you list the first million?

Dude, you didn't even know what HCQ was used for in this country.

Are you saying that HCQ isn't primarily a malaria drug?  As for lupus and arthritis, is it the mainstay medication for those maladies?  Are there alternative treatments?

 

You know, unlike Albuterol.

[FireChans]

Just now, GG said:

Are you saying that HCQ isn't primarily a malaria drug?  As for lupus and arthritis, is it the mainstay medication for those maladies?  Are there alternative treatments?

 

You know, unlike Albuterol.

Plaquenil is first line for Lupus, but it is not the only medication used to treat lupus.

[GG]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Methotrexate for starters. Costs about 15 bucks for a months worth or so without insurance.

 

What was your complaint, again?

These threads would be much shorter if he just admitted "Trump said it" 

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, GG said:

These threads would be much shorter if he just admitted "Trump said it" 

Right now he is googling methotrexate so he can list out all of the potential side effects and then say Trump is killing lupus patients.

11 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Well thanks for playing but you lose. He’s an ENGINEER!!  

If I need to kill someone in a bridge collapse, now I know who to call.

Edited April 12, 2020 by FireChans

[Scraps]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Methotrexate for starters. Costs about 15 bucks for a months worth or so without insurance.

 

What was your complaint, again?

Well you said there were 9 million treatments for Lupus.  I asked you to list the first million.  You gave me 2.

 

Regardless, many here have said the Hydroxychloroquine is the only treatment for Covid-19.  Is that true?

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Scraps said:

Well you said there were 9 million treatments for Lupus.  I asked you to list the first million.  You gave me 2.

 

Regardless, many here have said the Hydroxychloroquine is the only treatment for Covid-19.  Is that true?

There is no FDA approved treatment for COVID-19. HCQ is currently under investigation due to some small evidence suggesting it may be helpful. Outside of HCQ, there is nothing else besides symptomatic and supportive care.

Edited April 12, 2020 by FireChans

[Chef Jim]

5 minutes ago, Scraps said:

Regardless, many here have said the Hydroxychloroquine is the only treatment for Covid-19.  Is that true?

Who has said this?  I’d seriously like to know 

[Scraps]

Just now, FireChans said:

There is no FDA approved treatment for COVID-19. HCQ is currently under investigation due to some small evidence suggesting it may be helpful. Outside of HCQ, there is nothing else outside of symptomatic and supportive care.

Okay.  I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are a MD, even though the 9 million treatment for lupus sound like BS.

 

My problem is that HCQ has not been proven in clinical trials.  Do you disagree?  My problem is that people seem to be throwing caution to the wind.  Do you disagree?  I don't remember the drug names but I've heard of a couple of drugs that compete with HCQ that have shown some promise against Covid-19.  Trump even mentioned one of them by Pfizer in his Friday news conference.  Isn't it possible that if HCQ is effective against Covid-19, competitive medicines might be effective as well?

 

What is your problem with asking for clinical trials to prove the efficacy of any potential treatment?

7 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

Who has said this?  I’d seriously like to know 

Doc

[Chef Jim]

6 minutes ago, Scraps said:

Doc

Ok fair enough. I went back and found where he said that. But one doesn’t make many. You’ll need more to back up your many remark. 
 

Oh and before I forget.....who’s hoarding?

8 minutes ago, Scraps said:

What is your problem with asking for clinical trials to prove the efficacy of any potential treatment?

 

I can’t answer for him but my problem is......time.  

[FireChans]

13 minutes ago, Scraps said:

Okay.  I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are a MD, even though the 9 million treatment for lupus sound like BS.

 

My problem is that HCQ has not been proven in clinical trials.  Do you disagree?  My problem is that people seem to be throwing caution to the wind.  Do you disagree?  I don't remember the drug names but I've heard of a couple of drugs that compete with HCQ that have shown some promise against Covid-19.  Trump even mentioned one of them by Pfizer in his Friday news conference.  Isn't it possible that if HCQ is effective against Covid-19, competitive medicines might be effective as well?

 

What is your problem with asking for clinical trials to prove the efficacy of any potential treatment?

Doc

When someone is in full on respiratory failure, on a ventilator, do you think they want to wait for a clinical trial?

Edited April 12, 2020 by FireChans

[Scraps]

Just now, FireChans said:

When someone is in full on respiratory failure, on a ventilator, do you think they want to wait for a clinical trial?

I'm doubting your claims of being an MD.  Should they be put on a drug that could lead to heart failure?

[FireChans]

Just now, Scraps said:

I'm doubting your claims of being an MD.  Should they be put on a drug that could lead to heart failure?

How many people in the US have died from COVID-19 in the last month? How many have died from the side effects of HCQ?

 

Do you really want to put lupus patients on a drug that “could lead to heart failure?”

[Scraps]

Just now, FireChans said:

How many people in the US have died from COVID-19 in the last month? How many have died from the side effects of HCQ?

 

Do you really want to put lupus patients on a drug that “could lead to heart failure?”

Well, people with lupus have been prescribed this drug for a long time under a doctors supervision.

 

I see you have avoided all my questions

 

My problem is that HCQ has not been proven in clinical trials.  Do you disagree?  My problem is that people seem to be throwing caution to the wind.  Do you disagree?  I don't remember the drug names but I've heard of a couple of drugs that compete with HCQ that have shown some promise against Covid-19.  Trump even mentioned one of them by Pfizer in his Friday news conference.  Isn't it possible that if HCQ is effective against Covid-19, competitive medicines might be effective as well?ll my questions

 

I'll keep asking these Dr FireChans.  This shouldn't be difficult for a real MD, though I doubt at real MD would claim that there are 9 million treatments for lupus.

 

 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Scraps said:

Well, people with lupus have been prescribed this drug for a long time under a doctors supervision.

 

I see you have avoided all my questions

 

My problem is that HCQ has not been proven in clinical trials.  Do you disagree?  My problem is that people seem to be throwing caution to the wind.  Do you disagree?  I don't remember the drug names but I've heard of a couple of drugs that compete with HCQ that have shown some promise against Covid-19.  Trump even mentioned one of them by Pfizer in his Friday news conference.  Isn't it possible that if HCQ is effective against Covid-19, competitive medicines might be effective as well?ll my questions

 

I'll keep asking these Dr FireChans.  This shouldn't be difficult for a real MD, though I doubt at real MD would claim that there are 9 million treatments for lupus.

 

 

You can’t accuse me of dodging questions while you yourself are actively dodging my questions.

 

Ideally, we would have the luxury of waiting for clinical trials to investigate efficacy, sure. Did you know that every year, thousands of Americans with treatment resistant cancer take trial medications that haven’t undergone significant study in attempt to save their lives because they don’t have 10 years to wait around?

 

Yes, other medications may be effective. Not sure any of them have as much support as HCQ does at this time.

8 minutes ago, FireChans said:

How many people in the US have died from COVID-19 in the last month? How many have died from the side effects of HCQ?

 

Do you really want to put lupus patients on a drug that “could lead to heart failure?”

Answer these now please.

Edited April 12, 2020 by FireChans

[Scraps]

3 minutes ago, FireChans said:

You can’t accuse me of dodging questions while you yourself are actively dodging my questions.

Seriously?  You dodged my first question.  Name the first million of the 9 million treatments for Lupus;  I gave you the benefit of the doubt.  Your answers havn.t been remotely close to anything any MD has said.  I doubt you are an MD at all.

[Azalin]

4 minutes ago, Scraps said:

Seriously?  You dodged my first question.  Name the first million of the 9 million treatments for Lupus;  I gave you the benefit of the doubt.  Your answers havn.t been remotely close to anything any MD has said.  I doubt you are an MD at all.

 

Seriously? He used the rhetorical number "nine million" and you're trying to sound reasonable in asking him simply to name the first million? You're an ass and a troll.

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Scraps said:

Seriously?  You dodged my first question.  Name the first million of the 9 million treatments for Lupus;  I gave you the benefit of the doubt.  Your answers havn.t been remotely close to anything any MD has said.  I doubt you are an MD at all.

Lol, there’s the white flag. Everybody wants to play doctor but not everyone wants to read no heavy ass books.

 

Listen pal, there’s a lot more to practicing medicine than googling side effects and going, “it’s not safe!!!!!!!!!!!” Every medication has a risk of side effects, including the antibiotics you take for a sinus infection. Everyday in this country, septic patients with chronic kidney disease are started on vancomycin, even though vancomycin has a significant risk of nephrotoxicity. But that risk is assumed, because you may die without that antibiotic. Everyday, cancer patients take novel immuno- and chemo-therapy drugs without proof of efficacy because they have very little hope of survival otherwise. 

 

HCQ as an example, has very low risks associated with it relatively speaking, especially in a short course. One of the most notable side effects, which is related to the eyes, takes MONTHS of therapy to occur. It’s a medication that has been around since the 50s and one that we know very well. When using it in a COVID patient, you would have a discussion about the risks and possible benefits, including the fact that it hasn’t been well studied. But like above, regardless of the lack of clinical trial data, most patient’s on death’s door would take the chance on a mostly benign drug. And ultimately, it’s shared decision making between both the patient and their physician. No one is forcing COVID patients to take HCQ.

 

You don’t know what you’re talking about, which is okay. The easy solution is to shut the ***** up and stop trying to play doctor, because you suck at it.