Gary M Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, ALF said: Why do doctors and nurses wear masks while performing surgery ? I'm not trying to be a wiseguy Habit I guess, they pump you so full of antibiotics, they could likely use dirty instruments. Just now, SoCal Deek said: Why do bank robbers? 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Your last paragraph is somewhat correct. A vaccine will be the best way to get herd immunity within a given population. Your other premise, inferring that we should just let the virus spread, is both immoral and not effective. Estimates are that at least 60% of the population would have to get Covid for the herd immunity you suggest. Right now it’s I think about 10% and you have over 200k fatalities. In such a scenario you would have millions die. Do you believe that is acceptable public health care policy, that we should allow millions to die? Here is what would likely happen if we just let the virus spread. Hospitals would get over run, health care workers would dwindle, public panic would ensue as death rates go way up, people would shut themselves away in their homes, and we would have a true collapse of the economy and social structure. Viruses don’t hang out and propagate on their own. They require a host and the host’s cells to replicate. Until effective vaccines are available, our best bet is to limit the access of the virus to new hosts, by using mitigating strategies. They aren’t perfect and you are correct that people need to be more cognizant of proper mask usage. But that does not mean they aren’t effective. We know they are. We all have to pull together ....agree my friend but there will forever be a segment that does not......no masks, no precautions or anything remotely like safe practice protocols.....are they perpetrators and spreaders?....who knows with all of the inaccurate info out there and the entire pandemic being politicized for capital gain......very sad......"pulling together" USED TO HAPPEN.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 9 minutes ago, ALF said: Why do doctors and nurses wear masks while performing surgery ? I'm not trying to be a wiseguy I run IVF labs so I wear a mask when we’re doing egg retrievals and such. Masks are worn to protect the patient and the provider. My wearing one makes sure I don’t send droplets into a sterile space. My mask also prevents me from getting a face full of blood if spray occurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Your other premise, inferring that we should just let the virus spread, is both immoral and not effective. Never said that. I said " the more people that get it and survive, the lower the mortality rate goes. " here is the data, as more people are know to have covid the death rate drops, getting covid is not a death sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 minute ago, oldmanfan said: I run IVF labs so I wear a mask when we’re doing egg retrievals and such. Masks are worn to protect the patient and the provider. My wearing one makes sure I don’t send droplets into a sterile space. My mask also prevents me from getting a face full of blood if spray occurs. Speaking as a practicing Architect, let me say that first time I get a ‘face full of blood’ on me , I’m out of there! 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....agree my friend but there will forever be a segment that does not......no masks, no precautions or anything remotely like safe practice protocols.....are they perpetrators and spreaders?....who knows with all of the inaccurate info out there and the entire pandemic being politicized for capital gain......very sad......"pulling together" USED TO HAPPEN.... My friend, as tragic as the deaths and the economic impact have been, the most damaging long term consequence of this pandemic is the refusal to accept science and medicine by a sizable segment of society. That may inflict damage that cannot be fixed. 1 minute ago, Gary M said: Never said that. I said " the more people that get it and survive, the lower the mortality rate goes. " here is the data, as more people are know to have covid the death rate drops, getting covid is not a death sentence. That could hopefully be due to viral mutations. 1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said: Speaking as a practicing Architect, let me say that first time I get a ‘face full of blood’ on me , I’m out of there! 😂 Yep, our surgeries are minimal. You should see what the thoracic surgeons and orthopedic guys get into! My biggest exposure risk is processing sperm samples. My retirement plan is to go to comedy clubs and tell sperm stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: My friend, as tragic as the deaths and the economic impact have been, the most damaging long term consequence of this pandemic is the refusal to accept science and medicine by a sizable segment of society. That may inflict damage that cannot be fixed. The science says I have a 96% (or higher) chance of surviving covid. Why should I wear a mask and live in fear of going to dinner or the movies with those odds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: My biggest exposure risk is processing sperm samples. My retirement plan is to go to comedy clubs and tell sperm stories. Again, speaking as a practicing Architect, the first time I have to process a sperm sample....I’m out of there! 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 minute ago, BeerLeagueHockey said: Good luck with that. This vaccine won't hit the streets for years. Vaccines for the other coronaviruses have not successfully been developed, and trust me, there was money to be made there. Eradicate the common cold - you'd be Bezos rich. I predict this will either take 5 years to develop a proper safe vaccine, or the half-assed ones will get distributed and the general population will just trade covaids for something else (G-B for instance). I’m afraid you are likely correct. My guess is Covid may wind up like HIV. Antivirals will be developed and those will make the disease more of a chronic but liveable condition. That and behavioral changes; condom usage for HIV, masks and such for Covid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...thanks bud...perhaps I need to add that to my regimen.....I take 16 different vitamins & supplements daily.....still working every day and just trying to stay healthy at 67.....of course WD-40 on the rocks for "Happy Hour" doesn't hurt either..... I think zinc tends to help for many viruses. I take it when I get a cold. Seems to help but it may just be more psychosomatic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Again, speaking as a practicing Architect, the first time I have to process a sperm sample....I’m out of there! 😉 Puts food on the table! 2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: like some other swimming species, mine have become EXTINCT...I even tried worms and they won't "take the bait"......hopefully, HOPEFULLY this is a wake up call for those who have neglected and/or taken personal health for granted....even minimal changes can have a long term, positive impact......then again, we have the resistance" issue...... Yep. We could all stand to be better with our general health and supporting our native immune systems. I’m as guilty as anyone if not more so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 3 hours ago, ALF said: Why do doctors and nurses wear masks while performing surgery ? I'm not trying to be a wiseguy For the same reason that you sneeze into your elbow when your sick. To me it is utterly ridiculous to think that running around spitting in each others mouths wouldn't increase transmission of viruses. People are gonna be stuck on what they believe even if Jesus himself came down, and told them the truth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakin Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 4 hours ago, oldmanfan said: You are confusing mitigation and absolute prevention. Fauci and all other responsible scientists changed their positions on masks as the understanding of the science and spread of the virus developed and it became clear masks helped prevent droplet transmission. Likely reasons why they have not completely gotten rid of the virus is that not everyone wears them, some do not wear them correctly, and in crowded places with inadequate ventilation the virus spreads more easily. Wait - you just said they changed their positions on masks because they were lying about it to the public the first time. You know - to flatten the curve? As a scientist myself, I find that to be odd. not to mention the good handful of studies that show masks don’t do diddley dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, BeerLeagueHockey said: Be honest, when can we remove our masks in public? Maybe never. I agree with you about the vaccine, too. The first flu vaccine was discovered in 1938, and we've managed to get a 10-60% effectiveness since then. In 1976 they rushed a swine flu vaccine that made a good number of people very sick(GBS). I think Oldman is right that our best bet is to create treatments. The health care industry will love that, and it will surely make insurance premiums rise. The mask is pretty essential though. Think of it this way, if you knew there was Ebola in the area would you wear one?? To a 70-80 year old person they may fear it like Ebola. People and the economy do have to normalize. Maybe if people would choose take-out instead of sit down. Have a few friends over instead of going to the crowded dive bar. Open theaters, events and gyms, but implement safety measures. Have different school shifts. It's just a fact people may have to compromise, but Americans hate that. Maybe think of it like Great Britain during WW2. People had ration cards. They weren't allowed to get gasoline or have lights on, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 Just now, BeerLeagueHockey said: The lefty future is freaking bleak. Just kill me now. The good news is hunting, fishing, and Harley's are on the good to go list. When they come for my beer, that's where I draw the line. Cheers buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakin Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, daz28 said: Maybe never. I agree with you about the vaccine, too. The first flu vaccine was discovered in 1938, and we've managed to get a 10-60% effectiveness since then. In 1976 they rushed a swine flu vaccine that made a good number of people very sick(GBS). I think Oldman is right that our best bet is to create treatments. The health care industry will love that, and it will surely make insurance premiums rise. The mask is pretty essential though. Think of it this way, if you knew there was Ebola in the area would you wear one?? To a 70-80 year old person they may fear it like Ebola. People and the economy do have to normalize. Maybe if people would choose take-out instead of sit down. Have a few friends over instead of going to the crowded dive bar. Open theaters, events and gyms, but implement safety measures. Have different school shifts. It's just a fact people may have to compromise, but Americans hate that. Maybe think of it like Great Britain during WW2. People had ration cards. They weren't allowed to get gasoline or have lights on, etc. but this is not Ebola. Not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoshin Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 5 hours ago, spartacus said: more bullcrap "studies" designed to produce fear porn -that nothing works on the vrius It is accepted "science" that early treatment is critical yet this "study" ignored early treatment as a key variable from the link- "The trial participants were treated at 405 different hospitals around the world, each with their own treatment protocols, so factors beyond remdesivir may have impacted patient survival, he noted. In addition, remdesivir may still offer benefit to patients if given early in the course of their illness, but that wasn't specifically addressed by the new study, Dr. Maricar Malinis, an infectious diseases physician at Yale University, told the Times. when is "science" just marketing pushing an agenda I thought all the pharma companies were in cahoots with the government to lie about their studies because $$$. Now you tel me “the man” is lying and saying drugs are ineffective to keep everyone locked up. I can’t keep your conspiracies straight. Please stick to one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realtruelove Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, shoshin said: I thought all the pharma companies were in cahoots with the government to lie about their studies because $$$. Now you tel me “the man” is lying and saying drugs are ineffective to keep everyone locked up. I can’t keep your conspiracies straight. Please stick to one! I think he's right about this. It's widely known now that early treatment is vital. To ignore that in any study makes the study invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 I haven't had the chance to read Cuomo's book yet. Has anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz28 Posted October 17, 2020 Share Posted October 17, 2020 41 minutes ago, Bakin said: but this is not Ebola. Not even close. If your 75 years old, you're 220x more likely to die than someone ages 18-29, so they may feel it's pretty darn serious. If you read a little more closely, you'll see I never said Coronavirus=Ebola. Not even close 24 minutes ago, realtruelove said: I think he's right about this. It's widely known now that early treatment is vital. To ignore that in any study makes the study invalid. From a scientific standpoint that's difficult, because you have to be able to definitively categorize what "early" means, especially because the virus reacts differently with different people 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts