The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[shoshin]

33 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

It reminds me about the hospital bedA and ventilator debate.  Remember?   The same people who were booting and hollering about not having enough are the same ones sounding the alarm bells on the testing.   Dr Birx and for that matter Trump pretty much always pushed back on that notion and they ended up being right.  Not only were they right but those that were complaining weren’t even close to being right.  Thankfully

 

Also, Im not sure what makes you believe you understand the situation better than they do when it comes to testing?  
 

 

 

 

Fauci and Birx have not said enough testing has been done. “Enough tests for phase 1“ is definitely not adequate for what we need, as we know. 
 

If you agree that we are undercounting cases by 1/10 or less, as I do, then I’m not sure how you might think we are doing enough testing. And if we are not doing enough testing by a lot, then Pence et al are definitely engaging in double speak (truth but clearly not the entire story) by saying we have adequate testing. I don’t say that because of his politics, it’s because it’s a fact. 

Edited April 18, 2020 by shoshin

[Scraps]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Again, the Repubs didn't control Congress under Obama.

The Republicans controlled the House from 2011 - 2019.  Facts suck.

[3rdnlng]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

He does. A good tip is that when someone is so emotionally compromised on a position as you are on this (Orange Man Bad always!”), you’re going to filter comments through your own warped cognitive dissonance. 
 

Take a step back and breathe. 

He sounds like that lifetime conservative, Baskin.

[Doc]

Just now, Scraps said:

The Republicans controlled the House from 2011 - 2019.  Facts suck.

 

Ah so now you're moving on from "Repubs controlled congress" to "my bad, they controlled the House but were solely responsible for not restocking N95 masks."  Yes, facts do suck.

[Magox]

Just now, shoshin said:

Fauci and Birx have not enough testing has been done. “Enough tests for phase 1“ is definitely not adequate.
 

If you agree that we are undercounting cases by 1/10 or less, as I do, then I’m not sure how you might think we are doing enough testing. And if we are not doing enough testing by a lot, then Pence et al are definitely engaging in double speak (truth but clearly not the entire story) by saying we have adequate testing. I don’t say that because of his politics, it’s because it’s a fact. 

 

I have no idea what you are responding to but it wasn’t anything that I said.   You are responding to some sort of fabricated argument that is playing in your own mind.
 

I would suggest you reread the original post that you responded to and then get back to me.

[Doc]

And then there's all the medicines, supplies and devices that were pushed to China thanks to Obamacare.  Gonna blame that on the Repubs as well?

[Scraps]

5 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

He does. A good tip is that when someone is so emotionally compromised on a position as you are on this (Orange Man Bad always!”), you’re going to filter comments through your own warped cognitive dissonance. 
 

Take a step back and breathe. 

Here is Magox's quote 

 

Quote

Here you go, listen for yourself

 

Dr. Anthony Fauci, the government's leading infectious diseases expect, said testing for infection would need to be essentially instant, and frequent, to guarantee with certainty that someone isn't currently infected, which is why antibody testing and tracing will be important. But while testing for coronavirus is a key piece of tackling the virus, Fauci warned it's just one piece of it. 

"The emphasis we've been hearing is that testing is everything and it isn't," Fauci said. However, he also suggested there would be "enough tests to allow us to take this country safely to Phase 1."

 

Where exactly did Fauci say we were ready for phase 1?  Magox couldn't answer it and I'm sure your can't either.

[Magox]

3 hours ago, Magox said:

 

The point of the post went right over your head.   The lede shouldn’t be about these things it should be that Dr Fauci, Dr Birx, the CDC director and head of FEMA all said that we have enough tests for phase 1 and that solely looking at tests as Dr. Fauci put is not the way to go about it.   That is the lede.  Not this other BS

  @shoshin let me help you out.  
 

This was the post.  In regards to the testing,  What part of this do you dispute?

[Scraps]

2 minutes ago, Magox said:

  @shoshin let me help you out.  
 

This was the post.  In regards to the testing,  What part of this do you dispute?

Fauci didn't say we are ready for Phase 1.  He listed what was necessary for Phase 1.

[dubs]

13 minutes ago, Scraps said:

The Republicans controlled the House from 2011 - 2019.  Facts suck.

congress has two houses, just an fyi

[Scraps]

1 minute ago, dubs said:

congress has two houses, just an fyi

Read previous posts FYI.

[Doc]

13 minutes ago, Doc said:

Ah so now you're moving on from "Repubs controlled congress" to "my bad, they controlled the House but were solely responsible for not restocking N95 masks."  Yes, facts do suck.

 

Never mind the logical fallacy that Dems knew right after the H1N1 pandemic ended that there wouldn't be a pandemic within the 5 years.

[/dev/null]

4 minutes ago, Scraps said:

Fauci didn't say we are ready for Phase 1.  He listed what was necessary for Phase 1.

 

So we're not ready to start collecting underpants?

[Scraps]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Never mind the logical fallacy that Dems knew right after the H1N1 pandemic ended that there wouldn't be a pandemic within the 5 years.

Sheesh, your talking to yourself.

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Scraps said:

Sheesh, your talking to yourself.

 

Am I?

[Scraps]

Just now, Doc said:

 

Am I?

Well you quoted yourself, so it would seem.

 

[B-Man]

 

The Ventilator Shortage That Wasn’t

by Kyle Smith

Original Article

 

 

 

YEAH, WHAT TRUMP WAS DOING SEEMED EVEN MORE OBVIOUS THAN USUAL:

 

“In a classic Trump move, he picked a fight with Democrat governors beforehand over who had the authority to dictate the openings. With his usual bluster, Trump insisted that he did. Suddenly discovering federalism, the governors insisted that they did. In the end, Trump gave the governors the authority they demanded, though the Feds will still supply the data and the non-binding guidelines. That was the outcome Trump desired all along, I suspect, and his fight with the governors was only to bait them into the position he wanted.”

 

 

 

 

 

Governments incur fury by banning safe activities during coronavirus lockdown.

 

If my sons were to sit on the banks of my local creek in Maryland and cast in a hooked worm, trying to catch a trout or a bass, it would be illegal, even though it has about a 0% chance of spreading the coronavirus. Fishing always requires distancing to avoid lines crossing, and on the average day my sons go fishing there, they see about zero other people.

 

I cleared a copse of bamboo from my backyard this week, and when I tried to drop it off at the county dump, I was told I wasn’t allowed to thanks to Maryland’s stay-at-home rules. I have much more bamboo than I can fit in all my bins/baskets/buckets, so I wanted to do a dump run today and use curbside pickup for the rest tomorrow. Not allowed.

 

Here’s the thing: Driving bamboo stalks from my house to Rockville and dumping it at a very, very spaced transfer station poses no possible risk of spreading the coronavirus. When I pressed the governor’s spokesman on this yesterday, he pointed to Gov. Larry Hogan’s stay-at-home order and its exemptions for “essential” activities.

 

 

 

The problem is that the people running things aren’t very bright, and often have hidden agendas. The more you make those things clear, the less authority you have.

 

 

 

 

 

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Scraps said:

Well you quoted yourself, so it would seem.

I did.  Because I didn't want it to be missed by adding-it-on to that post.  Looks like it worked.

[Scraps]

Just now, Doc said:

I did.  Because I didn't want it to be missed by adding-it-on to that post.  Looks like it worked.

Looks like you don't understand who controlled which houses when, what they proposed for funding versus what the Executive Branch requested

[Doc]

Just now, Scraps said:

Looks like you don't understand who controlled which houses when, what they proposed for funding versus what the Executive Branch requested

 

Again, in one post, the Dems, who controlled Congress in 2010, could have done that, when the H1N1 pandemic was fresh in their minds.  They didn't.  And they had no idea when the next pandemic would occur so saying "N95 masks are only good for 5 years" isn't a valid excuse.

[Scraps]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Again, in one post, the Dems, who controlled Congress in 2010, could have done that, when the H1N1 pandemic was fresh in their minds.  They didn't.  And they had no idea when the next pandemic would occur so saying "N95 masks are only good for 5 years" isn't a valid excuse.

10 years ago! That is laughable.  What about the intervening years under GOP control?

[Hedge]

 

 

[ALF]

Enter your Zip Code for convid 19 update

 

https://www.cnn.com/resources/coronavirus-information/

[B-Man]

 

[Magox]

5 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

The Ventilator Shortage That Wasn’t

by Kyle Smith

Original Article

 

 

 

YEAH, WHAT TRUMP WAS DOING SEEMED EVEN MORE OBVIOUS THAN USUAL:

 

“In a classic Trump move, he picked a fight with Democrat governors beforehand over who had the authority to dictate the openings. With his usual bluster, Trump insisted that he did. Suddenly discovering federalism, the governors insisted that they did. In the end, Trump gave the governors the authority they demanded, though the Feds will still supply the data and the non-binding guidelines. That was the outcome Trump desired all along, I suspect, and his fight with the governors was only to bait them into the position he wanted.”

 

 

 

 

 

Governments incur fury by banning safe activities during coronavirus lockdown.

 

If my sons were to sit on the banks of my local creek in Maryland and cast in a hooked worm, trying to catch a trout or a bass, it would be illegal, even though it has about a 0% chance of spreading the coronavirus. Fishing always requires distancing to avoid lines crossing, and on the average day my sons go fishing there, they see about zero other people.

 

I cleared a copse of bamboo from my backyard this week, and when I tried to drop it off at the county dump, I was told I wasn’t allowed to thanks to Maryland’s stay-at-home rules. I have much more bamboo than I can fit in all my bins/baskets/buckets, so I wanted to do a dump run today and use curbside pickup for the rest tomorrow. Not allowed.

 

Here’s the thing: Driving bamboo stalks from my house to Rockville and dumping it at a very, very spaced transfer station poses no possible risk of spreading the coronavirus. When I pressed the governor’s spokesman on this yesterday, he pointed to Gov. Larry Hogan’s stay-at-home order and its exemptions for “essential” activities.

 

 

 

The problem is that the people running things aren’t very bright, and often have hidden agendas. The more you make those things clear, the less authority you have.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was making a similar point earlier.   Dr Birx and even Trump had been saying for about a week or so that they didn’t believe there would be a ventilator shortage despite the pleas from governors and hysterical reporting from the media.   Not only were the governors and media wrong but they were spectacularly off.    The reason being is that they went strictly off of faulty modeling whereas Dr Birx was looking at this from the experiences and actual data that was coming in from Europe and what they were seeing in the US.

 

Same thing will happen with the testing.   The states that begin phase 1 will be beginning from a much lower baseline of infections.   So the testing required for these states are at much lower levels than the ones who are still in lockdowns.  
 

Secondly, as Dr Fauci has been saying for over a month and even more emphatically so yesterday, that there is too much of an emphasis on testing.  He’s not saying it’s not needed just that the emphasis on it is overblown.  That’s Dr Fauci’s view and this isn’t the first time he has said it.  You could see in his face yesterday there was a look of exasperation on the hysteria revolving the emphasis on testing being the end-all-be-all.

 

He has said all along that people who have mild symptoms should stay home.  Period. Stop.

 

Stay quarantined until you get results on your test. 
 

Dr Fauci, Dr Birx , the CDC and FEMA have all signed off on these guidelines.  The idea that they would make this whole show with PowerPoint presentations without signing off on it is absurd.

 

I will take what they say who are apolitical people over the political governors and press any day of the week.

[shoshin]

35 minutes ago, Magox said:

  @shoshin let me help you out.  
 

This was the post.  In regards to the testing,  What part of this do you dispute?

It’s either doublespeak or incomplete as I’ve already noted. Having test capacity is not the current issue. Performing an adequate number of tests is. 

[Magox]

5 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Hysterical.  Even the CNN video which clearly shows that Dr Fauci believes we have enough testing for phase 1, Erin Burnett the CNN host asks Dr Sanjay Gupta,  “ is he right?”   
 

For months now we have been hearing “trust the health experts”.   I think what they really meant to say was “Trust the health experts, if they confirm our narrative”

2 minutes ago, shoshin said:

It’s either doublespeak or incomplete as I’ve already noted. Having test capacity is not the current issue. Performing an adequate number of tests is. 

So you don’t believe Dr Fauci and Dr Birx when they say we have enough testing for phase 1.   Is that what I’m hearing from you?

 

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by Magox

[Scraps]

Just now, Magox said:

 

Hysterical.  Even the CNN video which clearly shows that Dr Fauci believes we have enough testing for phase 1, Erin Burnett the CNN host asks Dr Sanjay Gupta,  “ is he right?”   

Fauci didn't say that.

[shoshin]

21 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

The Ventilator Shortage That Wasn’t

by Kyle Smith

Original Article

 

 

 

YEAH, WHAT TRUMP WAS DOING SEEMED EVEN MORE OBVIOUS THAN USUAL:

 

“In a classic Trump move, he picked a fight with Democrat governors beforehand over who had the authority to dictate the openings. With his usual bluster, Trump insisted that he did. Suddenly discovering federalism, the governors insisted that they did. In the end, Trump gave the governors the authority they demanded, though the Feds will still supply the data and the non-binding guidelines. That was the outcome Trump desired all along, I suspect, and his fight with the governors was only to bait them into the position he wanted.”

 

 

 

 

 

Governments incur fury by banning safe activities during coronavirus lockdown.

 

If my sons were to sit on the banks of my local creek in Maryland and cast in a hooked worm, trying to catch a trout or a bass, it would be illegal, even though it has about a 0% chance of spreading the coronavirus. Fishing always requires distancing to avoid lines crossing, and on the average day my sons go fishing there, they see about zero other people.

 

I cleared a copse of bamboo from my backyard this week, and when I tried to drop it off at the county dump, I was told I wasn’t allowed to thanks to Maryland’s stay-at-home rules. I have much more bamboo than I can fit in all my bins/baskets/buckets, so I wanted to do a dump run today and use curbside pickup for the rest tomorrow. Not allowed.

 

Here’s the thing: Driving bamboo stalks from my house to Rockville and dumping it at a very, very spaced transfer station poses no possible risk of spreading the coronavirus. When I pressed the governor’s spokesman on this yesterday, he pointed to Gov. Larry Hogan’s stay-at-home order and its exemptions for “essential” activities.

 

 

 

The problem is that the people running things aren’t very bright, and often have hidden agendas. The more you make those things clear, the less authority you have.

 

 

 

 

 

Remember the posts here about how Cuomo was killing WNYers by asking for ventilators? How he was choosing NYC residents lives over those of Buffalo? Classic!

1 minute ago, Magox said:

 

Hysterical.  Even the CNN video which clearly shows that Dr Fauci believes we have enough testing for phase 1, Erin Burnett the CNN host asks Dr Sanjay Gupta,  “ is he right?”   
 

For months now we have been hearing “trust the health experts”.   I think what they really meant to say was “Trust the health experts, if they confirm our agenda”

So you don’t believe Dr Fauci and Dr Birx when they say we have enough testing for phase 1.   Is that what I’m hearing from you?

 

 

Fauci and Birx have said there is adequate capacity but as noted have NOT said there is adequate testing being done and that is a bigger issue. You get my point and I’m pretty sure you agree with it but for reason don’t acknowledge it. I’ll consider this closed and if we see cases decline, you’ll be right and I’ll be happy to be wrong. 

[Magox]

8 minutes ago, shoshin said:

Remember the posts here about how Cuomo was killing WNYers by asking for ventilators? How he was choosing NYC residents lives over those of Buffalo? Classic!

Fauci and Birx have said there is adequate capacity but as noted have NOT said there is adequate testing being done and that is a bigger issue. You get my point and I’m pretty sure you agree with it but for reason don’t acknowledge it. I’ll consider this closed and if we see cases decline, you’ll be right and I’ll be happy to be wrong. 

 

Context matters.  I was talking about how the lede from the media should have been how Birx and Fauci says there is enough testing for phase 1.  That was pretty damn newsworthy.  But as I predicted if you go to The NY Times and WAPO, the headlines are how Trump is “fomenting” unrest. 

I was pretty clear with my words.  I didn’t say there was sufficient overall testing as a matter of fact I have discussed this at length in other threads that we need more testing.    For some reason you chimed in and began arguing something I never said.

[Doc]

25 minutes ago, Scraps said:

10 years ago! That is laughable.  What about the intervening years under GOP control?

 

So we're back to GOP control again? 

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Scraps]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

So we're back to GOP control again? 

I see you dodged the question.

[Doc]

1 minute ago, Scraps said:

I see you dodged the question.

 

LOL!  Oh, the hypocrisy.

[Deranged Rhino]

53 minutes ago, Scraps said:

Here is Magox's quote 

 

Where exactly did Fauci say we were ready for phase 1?  Magox couldn't answer it and I'm sure your can't either.

 

 

Your TDS is showing... It's literally the headline next to the clip.

 

And then within the clip, starting at 1:01 Dr. Fauci says explicitly:

 

"Let me just finish by saying, given what I just said and what I believe you're going to hear (from the next speakers which aren't in the clip, and is why you need to NOT rely on clips but rather the full statements), that for what we need in the first phase, if these things are done correctly (he's referring to the massive private lab testing available which he discussed before this clip, and you're ignoring -- not to mention what the other docs and Admiral explained in detail after his comments) but I believe they can, we will have and there will be enough tests to allow us to take this country safely through phase one". 

 

You're hung up on the "I believe they can" thinking that means they can't now. But if you listen to his FULL comments you see that is NOT what he means. What he means by "believe they can" is that he believes the governors now know WHERE the testing is already available (and has been for weeks). It's a major difference, and destroys your position. 

 

Because you shouldn't listen to clips. That's relying on the media to currate the message for you. ANd with your (obvious) TDS, that leads to you being woefully misinformed. 

 

You're wrong. 100%

 

Because you are letting your FEELZ get in the way of reason and logic. Be better. 

[Scraps]

Just now, Doc said:

 

LOL!  Oh, the hypocrisy.

You are the living embodiment.

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, Scraps said:

You are the living embodiment.

 

You just got blown up. Take a step back and breathe. You're exposing your irrationality and ignorance. It's a bad look. 

[Doc]

Just now, Scraps said:

You are the living embodiment.

 

Tell me again why the Dems didn't restock N95 masks when they had complete control of Congress in 2010, fresh off the H1N1 epidemic which depleted them?  Oh, that's right, because the masks expire in 5 years and they knew that Wuhan virus would strike in 10 years.  Good one.

[Scraps]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Tell me again why the Dems didn't restock N95 masks when they had complete control of Congress in 2010, fresh off the H1N1 epidemic which depleted them?  Oh, that's right, because the masks expire in 5 years and they knew that Wuhan virus would strike in 10 years.  Good one.

If the masks were replenished 10 years ago, they would have been thrown away 5 years ago as they have a 5 year shelf life.

 

Obviously math isn't your strong suite.

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, Scraps said:

If the masks were replenished 10 years ago, they would have been thrown away 5 years ago as they have a 5 year shelf life.

 

Obviously math isn't your strong suite.

 

Logistical supply chains obviously aren't yours.