Why are the the late 80's Giants D's never mentioned among the best?

[Prickly Pete]

6 minutes ago, row_33 said:

I only have 123 blocked so far, all from PPP

 

Lyle Alzado opened up about NFL steroid use for his last months on earth

 

 

 

Remember Chargers player that did the SI article on their coke use? It was everywhere (and considering how popular cocaine is right now, probably still is).

 

 

Edited December 26, 2019 by 32ABBA

[row_33]

3 minutes ago, 32ABBA said:

 

 

Remember Chargers player that did the SI article on their coke use? It was everywhere (and considering how popular cocaine is right now, probably still is).

The Don Reese article was most about the Saints, Muncie played for both teams and had his troubles....

 

 

 

The 1981 GST Warriors had Bernard King, World B Free, Joe Barry Carroll, John Lucas, Larry Smith and Purvis Short in their prime and couldn’t make the playoffs

 

a certain Oakland hotel was ground zero for drug abuse and parties 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2019 by row_33

[Prickly Pete]

12 minutes ago, row_33 said:

The Don Reese article was most about the Saints, Muncie played for both teams and had his troubles....

 

 

 

The 1981 GST Warriors had Bernard King, World B Free, Joe Barry Carroll, John Lucas, Larry Smith and Purvis Short in their prime and couldn’t make the playoffs

 

a certain Oakland hotel was ground zero for drug abuse and parties 

 

 

 

 

Right, funny no one is also taking into account the downside of the drug abuse. It's not like it doesn't also detract from a player's performance in some ways, as well.

[row_33]

10 minutes ago, 32ABBA said:

 

 

Right, funny no one is also taking into account the downside of the drug abuse. It's not like it doesn't also detract from a player's performance in some ways, as well.

bernard king made a heck of a comeback with the Knicks as a player  and John Lucas turned it all around 

[Mr. WEO]

36 minutes ago, 32ABBA said:

 

 

Remember Chargers player that did the SI article on their coke use? It was everywhere (and considering how popular cocaine is right now, probably still is).

 

 

 

The Bills had a guy following Bruce around because he hung out at "LaBoom" with other players and known drug dealers.

1 hour ago, BuffaloSol said:

Thanks for the glowing review but unfortunately the best position I can offer you is my assistant in an unofficial capacity. A job like this might make you a happier person, ya never know.

 

I'm happy at my current job. 

 

Follow your talent, I say...

[Prickly Pete]

The 90's Cowboys were doing plenty of blow. Michael Irvin?

 

 

 

Nothing I have seen leads me to believe that Giants team was doing anything that wasn't happening on other, less successful teams.

 

This whole thread is filled with nonsense.

Edited December 26, 2019 by 32ABBA

[row_33]

18 minutes ago, 32ABBA said:

The 90's Cowboys were doing plenty of blow. Michael Irving? 

 

 

 

Nothing I have seen leads me to believe that Giants team was doing anything that wasn't happening on other, less successful teams.

 

This whole thread is filled with nonsense.

the NFC for a long time had a handful of teams with great Ds

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

17 hours ago, NewEra said:

That team reminds me of the Patriots.  Not because of how they played or how good they were......but because they were cheaters.  
 

Banks, Carson, Miller and the rest were great players, but the guy who spearheaded everything they accomplished on d (not belichick) was cheating.  

 

How is Barry Bonds not in the MLB HoF.....while LT is regarded (by many) as the best player ever on the defensive side of the ball.

 

Barry took drugs that enhanced his performance

 

LT took drugs that enhanced his performance 

 

Take the coke out of LTs nose and you would’ve seen a different player.  One not as dominant 

 

 

 

...LOL....Michael Irvin does NOT approve of your message....plastic straws are still legal in Texas, right??...............

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Nope. Just one the best--top 5 for instance.

 

They did have other dominant seasons.  The '90 D (13 ppg) was even better than  the '86 D (  14.7 per game).

 

With regard to Taylor, how did that make him unique amongst so many of his peers?  Anyone who cites that as THE reason for giving high props to that D either wasn't alive at that time or didn't/doesn't understand how pro sports worked at that time.  You can put an asterisk next to his career if you want, but you can't put it on the D--or logically use it in any argument against them. 

 

Teams were filled with guys on PEDs and coke, yet few dominated.  They did.

 

 

 

Nah, I don't have talent for it.  I just goof on the serially redundant threads.

 

But I'm sure the mods could use a guy with your zeal. 

Ok.  In your OP you specially mentioned top 10.   I think they’re in the discussion every discussion for top 10.  Whenever I’ve had this discussion regarding the best defenses, someone brings them up.  I googled best nfl defenses all time and they come up in every article top 10.

 

i think they aren’t in the discussion for best ever because they aren’t the best ever and LT was doing rails

[Jauronimo]

6 hours ago, BuffaloSol said:

This is a Bills form bud.

Thanks for clearing that up for the guy who has been an active participant here for over a decade.

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

I played with guys that took several bumps a game.  Each of them were all league.  Each of them is were noticeably better while high.  Each of them would try and convince me how much better I’d be if I was high.  
 

 

And thats why upthread people questioned the performance enhancing qualities.  Unless you can re-up every 20 or 30 mins then performance enhancing, it is not.  Tougher to do on an NFL sideline than a baseball locker room and dugout.

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Thanks for clearing that up for the guy who has been an active participant here for over a decade.

And thats why upthread people questioned the performance enhancing qualities.  Unless you can re-up every 20 or 30 mins then performance enhancing, it is not.  Tougher to do on an NFL sideline than a baseball locker room and dugout.

Lol.  Ok.  It doesn’t enhance performance and it’s nearly impossible to re up mid game.  Whatever you wanna think my man.  
 

I have some pretty sweet ideas.  Do you have any cash to invest?  

[BillsPride12]

Back to the original point of the OP....That Giant's era defense is generally considered to be a bottom tier 10 ten defense of all time by most people who know football which I think is fair for them.  Of course the top dogs that are debated for the Top 3-5 spots such as 85 Bears, 2000 Ravens, 02 Buccs etc. are going to get more attention and accolades as opposed to the ones a little further down the ranks.  But I don't think those Giants defenses get forgotten about at all. 

[vincec]

It's hard to believe that any team that plays in NYC and wins a championship could possible be under-appreciated by pundits. It's usually the exact opposite.

[Dirtyd415]

 

9 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

So, in an era in which drug use in sports, including the NFL, was rampant-- you have singled out the Giants as particular offenders because... they "had the best supply of the highest quality being in NY in the 80s"?  The Bears didn't have the same quality of drugs to use?  How do you know this?

 

You said that current "people in the know" don't highly regard the Giants D back then ONLY because of drug use.  That's ridiculous. 

 

Every team had a drug problem. Every team had a steroid problem.  Knowing all that, my questions remains...

Once again putting words into my mouth.  I didn’t say they were not held in high regard, the question was why are they not mentioned in the conversation as the best ever.  
 

And yes, there are regional differences with all illicit drugs.  You think the marijuana found in Buffalo is the same quality as LA??  And again I stated drug REGIMEN, not just the quality.

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

Ok.  In your OP you specially mentioned top 10.   I think they’re in the discussion every discussion for top 10.  Whenever I’ve had this discussion regarding the best defenses, someone brings them up.  I googled best nfl defenses all time and they come up in every article top 10.

 

i think they aren’t in the discussion for best ever because they aren’t the best ever and LT was doing rails

 

 

That's the part (not THE best ever) I disagree with.  Everyone knows coke was part of the game back then.  I don't see anyone outside of this thread claiming that's what flavors their ranking of that Defense among there best.  Faulting that Defense for (one guy at least) coke use would strike many who were of age at that time as a bit silly. 

 

In fact, the HOF voters were so unconcerned about Taylor's "rail fueled advantage" that they made him a first ballot inductee.  Same for Bruce Smith.

 

No one cared.  To claim otherwise is a reflection of personal opinion, not fact.

[row_33]

59 minutes ago, vincec said:

It's hard to believe that any team that plays in NYC and wins a championship could possible be under-appreciated by pundits. It's usually the exact opposite.

they are very reluctant to give Cy Young’s to Yankees

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

That's the part (not THE best ever) I disagree with.  Everyone knows coke was part of the game back then.  I don't see anyone outside of this thread claiming that's what flavors their ranking of that Defense among there best.  Faulting that Defense for (one guy at least) coke use would strike many who were of age at that time as a bit silly. 

 

In fact, the HOF voters were so unconcerned about Taylor's "rail fueled advantage" that they made him a first ballot inductee.  Same for Bruce Smith.

 

No one cared.  To claim otherwise is a reflection of personal opinion, not fact.

Of course it’s my personal opinion......you asked a question looking to spark conversation.  People giving their personal opinion often occurs during conversation.

 

everyone was juicing when Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Clemens etc were also juicing.  Bonds (and maybe Clemens) were on the road to Cooperstown before they started juicing.  Meanwhile Jeff Bagwell in the HoF, joining Frank Thomas, Griffey, thome among others.  Those guys weren’t associated with steroids even though “everyone was doing it” and are now in the HoF, while Barry Bonds and the balco boys are not.  
 

Like you said, times were different and it was accepted that LT was doing coke......yet no one is talking about them being the best defense ever.  So what could the answer be why they aren’t seen as the best?  Like I said before......because they aren’t the best.  They are discussed in the top 5-10 conversation.....like you said they weren’t.  
 

and we still have no idea what this thread is about. Best ever?  Top 5?  Top 10?  Pretty much nonsense.   I suspect it was made so you could bold bits and pieces of others posts and ignore the rest of what they have to say.  

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Of course it’s my personal opinion......you asked a question looking to spark conversation.  People giving their personal opinion often occurs during conversation.

 

everyone was juicing when Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, Clemens etc were also juicing.  Bonds (and maybe Clemens) were on the road to Cooperstown before they started juicing.  Meanwhile Jeff Bagwell in the HoF, joining Frank Thomas, Griffey, thome among others.  Those guys weren’t associated with steroids even though “everyone was doing it” and are now in the HoF, while Barry Bonds and the balco boys are not.  
 

Like you said, times were different and it was accepted that LT was doing coke......yet no one is talking about them being the best defense ever.  So what could the answer be why they aren’t seen as the best?  Like I said before......because they aren’t the best.  They are discussed in the top 5-10 conversation.....like you said they weren’t.  
 

and we still have no idea what this thread is about. Best ever?  Top 5?  Top 10?  Pretty much nonsense.   I suspect it was made so you could bold bits and pieces of others posts and ignore the rest of what they have to say.  

 

 

 

 

Among the best.   Never seen them in a top 5 list. Maybe a few 10's.

 

 

 

The responses that claimed that they are not considered one of the best because Taylor used coke were the nonsense I have been responding to since.  Pure nonsense.  

 

MLB isn't Football HOF.  They could not be more different in how the voters viewed PED and substance abuse so that's a point not worth making

[row_33]

Baseball ignored guys suddenly putting on 40 pounds of muscle mass and their hat sizes going to 9  5/8

[Happy]

49 minutes ago, row_33 said:

Baseball ignored guys suddenly putting on 40 pounds of muscle mass and their hat sizes going to 9  5/8

 

You mean Mark McGuire wasn't all natural?  I'm shocked (sarcasm).  I remember seeing pictures of him as a rookie compared to the year he broke the HR record; night and day difference.