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Who's Most Responsible for Pats* Dynasty: Brady or Belichick?

Who's Most Responsible for Pats* Dynasty: Brady or Belichick?  

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  1. 1. Who's Most Responsible for Pats* Dynasty: Brady or Belichick?



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On 7/14/2019 at 11:37 AM, Gugny said:

Obviously, both BB and Brady are largely responsible for the dynasty.  

 

But who do you think is MOST responsible?

Honestly, I think it is like the perfect storm. IMO, Brady and Belichick are, arguably, the best ever at their respective positions and complement each other's strengths very well.  If you remove either from the equation, I don't believe there is ever the sustained level of success we have witnessed.

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A dynasty is never built by one individual, its a core group which includes management, coaching, and key players.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/16/2019 at 8:39 AM, Mike in Horseheads said:

I would agree with that. Whatever hope there was for EJ was destroyed by St Doug.

I see this narrative a lot, many who follow college ball knew EJ was a disappointment at FSU, so it was difficult to ever imagine him being a good pro QB under any coaching staff. 

Edited by SirAndrew

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That's like asking who is more responsible for the Pats dynasty, Walt Coleman or Ronald Torbert?

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The extra speaker in Bradys helmet allowing them to communicate with him long after regular communication is cut off at the 15 second mark of the playclock. How do you think this 6th round bum is such a genius at audibles

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..Belichick plays the cards he is dealt......unfortunately Brady has been in EVERY deck for 18 years....dammit..............

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On 7/15/2019 at 2:38 PM, Tenhigh said:

I dunno, the Bills kind of beat themselves that game. I'd argue that booze, women and magic powder had as much to do with it as BB.  What was his HC record pre-Brady?  Sub 500?  What Brady does on offense gives him full flexibility on defense.  BB is up there, but greatest ever?  Who knows. 

 

BB came up with the D that stopped the best Buffalo offense ever.

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7 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

BB came up with the D that stopped the best Buffalo offense ever.

The Bills defense lost the game by allowing 40 minutes of possession time to a plodding, dinosaur offense. Many tackles were missed and execution was sloppy.  The Bills offense scored 17 points in 19 minutes of possession. I’ve always thought the legend of Belichicks role in Supe XXV was vastly exaggerated. Seriously, a kick drifts two feet to the left and B.B. is a footnote in that game. 

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19 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

..Belichick plays the cards he is dealt......unfortunately Brady has been in EVERY deck for 18 years....dammit..............

Tom Brady is arguably the best QB in the history of the NFL.

 

I voted Brady...

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5 minutes ago, Figster said:

Tom Brady is arguably the best QB in the history of the NFL.

 

I voted Brady...

 

...have to respectfully disagree with in "the history of the NFL"...in HIS era?...assuredly....but there are FAR too many difference if we view the QB game "by era" to anoint solely ONE as GOAT...

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Belicheat went 11-5 in 15 games with a QB who never started one single college game. That QB went 10-5 that season. 

 

It's not just the QB on that team that does so well as its often his defense steps up as well. Brady seemed to fade somewhat at the end of last season, so the run game and defense stepped it up!

 

Nobody, and I mean nobody watches as much film on opponents as Belichick. He probably knows what play call he will get from opposing coaches before they do as they look on their play chart. 

 

Yes, Tom Brady is the GOAT! But I also wonder what would have happened to that 6th round pick at QB on any other NFL team?

 

That first year for Brady the Patriots took a RB from Buffalo in Antowain Smith and got 1157 yards, 12 TDs from him. Brady didn't set the world on fire with his 2483 passing yards or his 18 TDs, 12 INTs. What he did learn was to move the chains play after play until the red zone and then score.  Troy Brown 101 catches for 1199 yards also helped that first year. 

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Belichick, because he drafted Brady. There would be no Brady/Belichick dynasty otherwise. 

 

He is also responsible for hiring Josh McDaniels who has been a great match with Brady. 

 

And he’s the one who’s made it possible for Brady to play in basically the same offensive system his entire career (which IMO has had a big impact on how good Brady has become).

 

Plus he’s a football mastermind who game plans and adjusts better than anyone.

 

 

But Brady deserves his fair share of the credit. He is relentless in his pursuit of perfecting his craft and demands that his receivers do the same. He’s had a big impact on the culture in New England, and his play on the field obviously speaks for itself.

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Kemp said:

 

BB came up with the D that stopped the best Buffalo offense ever.

That 1990 SB Jim Kelly called his own plays and attempted passes far more then he should have considering Thurman Thomas ran 15 times for 135 yards. 

 

If the Bills coaches had watched the NY Giants play the 49ers in the NFC Championship game they should have noticed that the NY Giants defense shut down that 14-2 Niners offense that was the #2 passing offense that season. 

 

The reality is that Belichick usually doesn't lose twice to the same team in a year and the Buffalo Bills had beaten the NY Giants in Giants stadium in week 15. Both starting QBs left the game with injuries as Jim Kelly and Phil Simms were both sidelined that game. Bills won 17-13. 

Edited by Nihilarian

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On 7/14/2019 at 12:41 PM, H2o said:

I got Brady. How many SB wins do the Pats have without him as the starter?

My thoughts also, teams like the Ravens have won championships without a great QB. BB has arguably the GOAT

 

 

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2 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

That 1990 SB Jim Kelly called his own plays and attempted passes far more then he should have considering Thurman Thomas ran 15 times for 135 yards. 

 

If the Bills coaches had watched the NY Giants play the 49ers in the NFC Championship game they should have noticed that the NY Giants defense shut down that 14-2 Niners offense that was the #2 passing offense that season. 

 

The reality is that Belichick usually doesn't lose twice to the same team in a year and the Buffalo Bills had beaten the NY Giants in Giants stadium in week 15. Both starting QBs left the game with injuries as Jim Kelly and Phil Simms were both sidelined that game. Bills won 17-13. 

I’m sure the Bills coaches noticed , as they watched the game film. Kelly definitely called too many passing plays, though. It’s always tougher to beat a team twice in a season, regardless of who their D coordinator is. The Bills offense scored the same amount of points in both games vs the Giants though, 17. The defense chipped in 2 points with a safety. After the game, the Giants Head Coach, Bill Parcells made some telling comments. Keep in mind that Parcells was a defensive minded Coach. He said the Bills “ are a little soft up the middle if you run right at ‘em “ and declared “ power football wins”. Yes, the Bills defense cost them a Super Bowl title that night. The slow, plodding Giants with a backup QB should have been held under 14 points. They had an elite defense, but 17- 20 points was totally realistic against them and enough for a win if the defense made a few key tackles. Belichick didn’t have a huge impact on SB XXV; the Bills D and Kelly’s playcalling had a greater role in the outcome. 

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1 hour ago, Figster said:

My thoughts also, teams like the Ravens have won championships without a great QB. BB has arguably the GOAT

 

 

Not many , if any of those teams managed to become a dynasty though. That’s where the great QB comes in. B.B. is an excellent defensive coach, but that doesn’t get you what it used to in the NFL. A QB that makes very few mistakes, and rarely makes more errors than the opposing QB is paramount. The Pats may have stumbled into a SB win , but the dynasty doesn’t happen without Brady. Bill Walsh was considered the best Coach of his time , and was called “ the genius”. He was an offensive guru in an era when defense still mattered a lot. The forty niners dynasty continued without him, winning Superbowls under George Seifert. The key was they had Joe Montana, then Steve Young took over. 

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3 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

Not many , if any of those teams managed to become a dynasty though. That’s where the great QB comes in. B.B. is an excellent defensive coach, 

If you think that’s all Belichick is, then you’ve been napping for past 18 years.

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31 minutes ago, mannc said:

If you think that’s all Belichick is, then you’ve been napping for past 18 years.

No , I haven’t been napping through the 18 years of football torture. It’s been all too real. However, the dynasty is due to Brady. While I didn’t say that’s all Belichick is , none of what the Pats are thought of as today happens without Brady. Some could say that about the Coach, but they’d be wrong. It’s the QB, then anything else. 

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On 7/19/2019 at 6:57 AM, Green Lightning said:

I hardly think Brady would have had a fraction of the success he has had w/o Belicheat. 

Yes, this X 1000. Bellichick is an offensive genius.

3 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

No , I haven’t been napping through the 18 years of football torture. It’s been all too real. However, the dynasty is due to Brady. While I didn’t say that’s all Belichick is , none of what the Pats are thought of as today happens without Brady. Some could say that about the Coach, but they’d be wrong. It’s the QB, then anything else. 

Dad?

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9 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

No , I haven’t been napping through the 18 years of football torture. It’s been all too real. However, the dynasty is due to Brady. While I didn’t say that’s all Belichick is , none of what the Pats are thought of as today happens without Brady. Some could say that about the Coach, but they’d be wrong. It’s the QB, then anything else. 

Funny, NO and GB have had QBs as good as Brady the past 15 years, and yet they’ve been far less dominant than the Pats...there goes theory.

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On 7/19/2019 at 6:57 AM, Green Lightning said:

I hardly think Brady would have had a fraction of the success he has had w/o Belicheat. 

There’s zero evidence of this and Belichick was a losing head coach before Brady.  Those are proven facts. 

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8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

There’s zero evidence of this and Belichick was a losing head coach before Brady.  Those are proven facts. 

 

I think if you read through the first 9+ pages of this thread, you'll see why the, "BB was a losing coach before Brady," is such a weak, lazy, twisted and biased narrative.  There's a lot of higher quality dialogue happening with regard to the topic.  Soak it in, man.

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1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

I think if you read through the first 9+ pages of this thread, you'll see why the, "BB was a losing coach before Brady," is such a weak, lazy, twisted and biased narrative.  There's a lot of higher quality dialogue happening with regard to the topic.  Soak it in, man.

So let’s just make up things like Brady (who never played for another coach other than Belichick) won’t have been good.  

 

This is crazy, and stick with me here, maybe Belichick became a much better coach when he got handed the best qb ever!  But clearly the coach who was 43-55 before Brady (career record 207-60) is the main reason for their success. 

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