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Who's Most Responsible for Pats* Dynasty: Brady or Belichick?

Who's Most Responsible for Pats* Dynasty: Brady or Belichick?  

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  1. 1. Who's Most Responsible for Pats* Dynasty: Brady or Belichick?



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23 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Belichick 

 

Brady never would have become Brady without Belichick.  

Brady. Belichick wasn't a winning HC before Brady.

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In looking up Belichick's statistics, I saw that the Pats went 9-7 and failed to make the playoffs in 2002, the year after their first Super Bowl win.  I had completely forgotten about that. 

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If the Pats trade Brady to the Bills for any player on our roster, who makes the playoffs in 2020:  Pats, Bills, Neither, Both?

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1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

The 49ers did.  Also, it shows how overrated the GM of the Colts and Packers were.  The Bills would win 7 games with Trent Edwards and JP Losman.

 

and Tim Tebow made the playoffs.  Flukes happen.  Belichick has never won a playoff game without Brady. 

 

Well  Actually...  IIRC  Drew Bledsoe came in off the bench and Won a playoff game for the Putz (saving the season) and then was benched when Tainted Tom returned. 

3 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

If the Pats trade Brady to the Bills for any player on our roster, who makes the playoffs in 2020:  Pats, Bills, Neither, Both?

Buffalo   :death:

 

 

 

(only because I despise NE***)

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On 7/14/2019 at 11:45 AM, Binghamton Beast said:

IMO, Brady.

 

The second Mo Lewis was the turning point for Belichick.

 

Yep - Mo “effing” Lewis

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Clearly it's Belli-cheat.  Would he have had as much success?  absolutely not, but he's the guy behind the machine pulling the strings.

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12 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

If the Pats trade Brady to the Bills for any player on our roster, who makes the playoffs in 2020:  Pats, Bills, Neither, Both?

 

Both - if the return is Josh Allen.

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I just think the helmet thing might be the biggest and most under reported thing of them all. Think of how huge it would be as a young QB to have the coach in your ear during the play. 

 

You'd have to get a lot better recognizing coverages and blitzes a hell of a lot faster than watching tape afterward. 

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1 hour ago, Tenhigh said:

Brady. Belichick wasn't a winning HC before Brady.

 

No, but he's the one who beat Buffalo in a Super Bowl, before Brady.

 

What did Parcells win without Belichick?

 

Face it. Brady is the best QB ever and Bellichick is the greatest tactician ever. 

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2 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

I looked at a list of top 25 HC's and while there are obvious indications of having a good QB,  it isn't always true

 

21. Marty Schottenheimer
Cleveland 1984-88; Kansas City 1989-98; Washington 2001; San Diego 2002-06
200-126-1 (21 years), 5-13 in playoffs and 8 division titles

 

16. Dick Vermeil
Philadelphia 1976-82; St. Louis Rams 1997-99; Kansas City 2001-05
120-109 (15 years), 6-5 in playoffs
3 division titles and  2 Super Bowl appearances (XV, XXXIV)  Super Bowl XXXIV champion


15. Tony Dungy
Tampa Bay 1996-2001; Indianapolis 2002-08
139-69 (13 years), 9-10 in playoffs
6 division titles, Super Bowl XLI champion, Pro Football Hall of Fame, Class of 2016

 

 

6. Joe Gibbs
Washington 1981-92, 2004-07
154-94 (16 years), 17-7 in playoffs, 5 division titles, 4 Super Bowl appearances (XVII, XVIII, XXII, XXVI)
Super Bowl XVII, XXII, XXVI champion

Pro Football Hall of Fame, Class of 1996

Gibbs won three Super Bowls with three different quarterbacks. That’s a testament to a great coach.

 

 

3. Don Shula
Baltimore Colts 1963-69, Miami 1970-95
328-156-6 (33 years), 19-17 in playoffs
16 division titles
6 Super Bowl appearances (III, VI, VII, VIII, XVII, XIX)
Super Bowl VII, VIII champion
Pro Football Hall of Fame, Class of 1997

Pro football’s all-time career wins leaders coached in six Super Bowls and commandeered the only perfect season in NFL history.
 

Arguably Marino was the best QB Shula had and he had maybe 1 SB appearance   (and he may not have been the starter then)  IIRC

Ever hear of Bob Griese?

Dungy would not be on the list without Manning.

Vermeil would not be on the list without Warner.

 

i won’t entertain somebody’s 20+ best.

 

so, Gibbs is the one outlier out of 15.

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It's tough to really determine.

 

Belichick has made it such an importance to fit into their culture.  Hard work - do your job. etc.  Everyones so accountable

 

Brady has created a persona of just, an ultimate competitor.  The guy will do anything to win, he doesn't care about his numbers, or your numbers for that matter.  It also rubs off on other players that their QB is just a total gamer who doesn't care about anything but winning.

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1 minute ago, Cripple Creek said:

Ever hear of Bob Griese?

Dungy would not be on the list without Manning.

Vermeil would not be on the list without Warner.

 

i won’t entertain somebody’s 20+ best.

 

so, Gibbs is the one outlier out of 15.

 

I've never seen anyone hate being wrong as much as you do.

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11 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I've never seen anyone hate being wrong as much as you do.

I’m happy to admit when I’m wrong. I’m just as happy to argue when people answer a flawed question incorrectly.  And whilst (A&FM) we’re at it, please refute my points.

 

 

12 minutes ago, dneveu said:

It's tough to really determine.

 

Belichick has made it such an importance to fit into their culture.  Hard work - do your job. etc.  Everyones so accountable

 

Brady has created a persona of just, an ultimate competitor.  The guy will do anything to win, he doesn't care about his numbers, or your numbers for that matter.  It also rubs off on other players that their QB is just a total gamer who doesn't care about anything but winning.

And your bottom paragraph is why the answer is Brady. Name me another HOF QB who would put up w what he has and never asked for the most money?

 

It does not work without Brady.

Edited by Cripple Creek

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Another huge factor is Brady takes less money that doesn’t handicap the Pats.  

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58 minutes ago, Kemp said:

 

No, but he's the one who beat Buffalo in a Super Bowl, before Brady.

 

What did Parcells win without Belichick?

 

Face it. Brady is the best QB ever and Bellichick is the greatest tactician ever. 

I dunno, the Bills kind of beat themselves that game. I'd argue that booze, women and magic powder had as much to do with it as BB.  What was his HC record pre-Brady?  Sub 500?  What Brady does on offense gives him full flexibility on defense.  BB is up there, but greatest ever?  Who knows. 

Edited by Tenhigh

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On 7/14/2019 at 12:41 PM, H2o said:

I got Brady. How many SB wins do the Pats have without him as the starter?

How many do they have without Belichick as the head coach?

 

Remember when Brady blew out his knee, and Matt Cassel, who hadn't started a football game since high school, led them to a 10-6 record?

 

I don't think it's any question who's more responsible.

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5 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

He had one winning season in his first 6 years.  In today’s nfl, he won’t have made it that long.  He was basically Dick Jauron until he got Brady.

D. Jauron would have gotten Brady* killed.

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