‘The culture starts with Sean’: How the coach’s voracious learning habits are rubbing off on the Bills (Athletic article)

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Well, I suppose neither of us wants to find out who is right on this.  There is a 99% chance they are back next year, and just as good a chance they win more than 4 or 5 games next year.  I guess the whole thing is just academic. 

 

I totally agree with that. It is all very academic. I just don't think it is the case that there is no situation on which they are fired.

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am a fan too. McDermott was the guy I wanted even before Rex was fired. And you might well be right that Pegula was attracted to the tear down because he felt he had tried the incremental approach "the Whaley plan" albeit with a clown show at the HC position. But it was still a choice to go that way and I just think it is important people (even those like you and I who support it) recognise it was a choice. Because it leads to us starting the discussion from a more honest baseline. The people who try and portray it like it was the only way to go I think back themselves into a corner before they start.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that there were a variety of pathways to success. And I will add that there isn't a particular pathway that is the best way. The key is in the execution of the designated plan. Also, good managers are not ideologues. They are the ones who retain the flexibility to adjust to the changing circumstances. Another key, regardless of the approach, is having all the staff on board to the same plan. Inconsistency and mishmash in messaging and execution leads to confusion and failure.  

[JerseyBills]

He has the IT factor

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

I respectfully but strenuously disagree with your judgment that Pegulas would not be afraid to resort to using the much calloused trigger finger if this season turns out to be disappointing. I think that he has learned his lesson that churning coaches and staff is an act of futility. My impression is that with both franchises there was a learning curve for the new owners. And they learned that injudiciously spending money was not a solution to injudicious hiring. I think with both franchises they put more thought into the hiring of staff and allowing them the time and space to do their jobs. 

 

So do you think there is a record in 2019 that would result in firings? That is separate from how likely that record is (because I think it is very unlikely) but if they went 0-16 presumably you agree they would be sacked? 1-15? 2-14? 3-13? 4-12? Where is the threshold?

[JohnC]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So do you think there is a record in 2019 that would result in firings? That is separate from how likely that record is (because I think it is very unlikely) but if they went 0-16 presumably you agree they would be sacked? 1-15? 2-14? 3-13? 4-12? Where is the threshold?

Let's put aside the 0-16 or 2-14 type of seasons for this discussion because it is so improbable. Even with a disastrous season and resulting bad record I do not envisage the owners getting so frustrated that they would fire the coach. I just believe that the owners are so bought in with the coach they hired and committed to that they are going to allow this regime the space to work things out. Let's not forget that they have already observed this muscled wrestling coach take a stripped down team in his first year and got his team into the playoffs for the first time in a generation. So they have already experienced some success under this coach in very challenging circumstances. I'm very confident that these owners are going to give this regime the time and space to overcome any temporary setbacks, at least for the short term. 

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Let's put aside the 0-16 or 2-14 type of seasons for this discussion because it is so improbable. Even with a disastrous season and resulting bad record I do not envisage the owners getting so frustrated that they would fire the coach. I just believe that the owners are so bought in with the coach they hired and committed to that they are going to allow this regime the space to work things out. Let's not forget that they have already observed this muscled wrestling coach take a stripped down team in his first year and got his team into the playoffs for the first time in a generation. So they have already experienced some success under this coach in very challenging circumstances. I'm very confident that these owners are going to give this regime the time and space to overcome any temporary setbacks, at least for the short term. 

 

Again, I am not saying that a season that results in McDermott's firing is likely. But if it does happen and we win 4 games or fewer (without Josh getting seriously injured) then I think they would fire him. 

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Again, I am not saying that a season that results in McDermott's firing is likely. But if it does happen and we win 4 games or fewer (without Josh getting seriously injured) then I think they would fire him. 

We are not in accord. That's okay. 

[BADOLBILZ]

12 hours ago, eball said:

 

 that’s a load of crap and you know it. I respect all fans with opinions; I make fun of those who add nothing but negativity or who think they know it all. You fall into the latter category, sport. Cheers!

 

 

That's it......embrace the liquor.........don't fight it........let it speak.......neither of you can discuss football but at least it's got a better sense of humor.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

my 2 cents

 

The Bills will not go 4-12 and the Pegs will not move (that far) out of Buffalo  anytime soon

 

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

We are not in accord. That's okay. 

 

I;m not in Accord, I drive a Saturn     

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I am a fan too. McDermott was the guy I wanted even before Rex was fired. And you might well be right that Pegula was attracted to the tear down because he felt he had tried the incremental approach "the Whaley plan" albeit with a clown show at the HC position. But it was still a choice to go that way and I just think it is important people (even those like you and I who support it) recognise it was a choice. Because it leads to us starting the discussion from a more honest baseline. The people who try and portray it like it was the only way to go I think back themselves into a corner before they start.

 

 

You still a Sean McDermott > Anthony Lynn guy?

 

   

[JohnC]

57 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

my 2 cents

 

The Bills will not go 4-12 and the Pegs will not move (that far) out of Buffalo  anytime soon

 

 

I;m not in Accord, I drive a Saturn     

Go with the Corolla. Maybe doesn't have the pep but better value. 

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So do you think there is a record in 2019 that would result in firings? That is separate from how likely that record is (because I think it is very unlikely) but if they went 0-16 presumably you agree they would be sacked? 1-15? 2-14? 3-13? 4-12? Where is the threshold?

 

I am on the same page with you again Gunner.

 

My personal opinion:  There is 0% chance that McD and/or Beane will be fired during or just after this season.  

 

BUT...like you said, there are scenarios where they can and even likely get fired.  My "0%" chance opinion is based on my strong belief those scenarios just aren't going to happen.  I just can't find any plausible scenario where we win less games this year.   But like you said, if we go out and crap the bed and somehow win fewer games with an easier schedule and more talent, then all bets are off and no one is safe.

 

My range of expectation is similar to yours, just a slight higher in optimism.  I think our floor is 8 wins and our ceiling is 12 wins.  For me, my official opinion is that we win 11 games.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[eball]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

You still a Sean McDermott > Anthony Lynn guy?

 

 

Lynn got a fast start out of the gate but these two horses aren't even on the backstretch yet.  Let's give it some time; Lynn's Chargers (with a loaded roster) looked pretty overmatched and underprepared against the Pats*** last January.

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You still a Sean McDermott > Anthony Lynn guy? 

 

Yep.

[Chandler#81]

For me, the jury is still out on Sean. I know all the chronicled reasons he has a losing record to date. What’s rarely discussed are gameday decisions, obscenely undisciplined play and unwillingness to publicly take/accept blame for these. Yes, it’s refreshing to see a ‘Process’ guy in an era where once credible coaches like Andy Reid have willingly sold their soul for maggots & thugs with astounding skills.

 

Has there been a speech or interview anyone can recall verbatim where he’s said anything of value? Of course not. But it doesn’t bode well against head scratching personnel & gameday decisions for balance on the whole. 

 

Winning cures everything, even an incredibly boring head coach. Losing, on the other hand.. Case in point, if the team fails to have a winning season this year, he can pick up his last check in the ‘processor’.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

9 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

For me, the jury is still out on Sean. I know all the chronicled reasons he has a losing record to date. What’s rarely discussed are gameday decisions, obscenely undisciplined play and unwillingness to publicly take/accept blame for these. Yes, it’s refreshing to see a ‘Process’ guy in an era where once credible coaches like Andy Reid have willingly sold their soul for maggots & thugs with astounding skills.

 

Has there been a speech or interview anyone can recall verbatim where he’s said anything of value? Of course not. But it doesn’t bode well against head scratching personnel & gameday decisions for balance on the whole. 

 

Winning cures everything, even an incredibly boring head coach. Losing, on the other hand.. Case in point, if the team fails to have a winning season this year, he can pick up his last check in the ‘processor’.

 

15-17  is far superior that 1-31 

 

just sayin 

[BADOLBILZ]

27 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

For me, the jury is still out on Sean. I know all the chronicled reasons he has a losing record to date. What’s rarely discussed are gameday decisions, obscenely undisciplined play and unwillingness to publicly take/accept blame for these. Yes, it’s refreshing to see a ‘Process’ guy in an era where once credible coaches like Andy Reid have willingly sold their soul for maggots & thugs with astounding skills.

 

Has there been a speech or interview anyone can recall verbatim where he’s said anything of value? Of course not. But it doesn’t bode well against head scratching personnel & gameday decisions for balance on the whole. 

 

Winning cures everything, even an incredibly boring head coach. Losing, on the other hand.. Case in point, if the team fails to have a winning season this year, he can pick up his last check in the ‘processor’.

 

6th most penalized team for 5th most yards in 2018.

 

That kind of flaggage is tolerable for a super-aggressive team that imposes it's will on opponents.......KC lead the NFL in penalties.........but it doesn't jive with the style of football they play on both sides of the ball.   Or the whole "process" mentality. 

 

That's the thing with McD so far..........the gameday McD pales in comparison to the other 349 days McD. 

[Mr. WEO]

Last year around this time, he was voraciously reading this book:  "Pick Me: The Nate Peterman Story"...

[eball]

44 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

6th most penalized team for 5th most yards in 2018.

 

That kind of flaggage is tolerable for a super-aggressive team that imposes it's will on opponents.......KC lead the NFL in penalties.........but it doesn't jive with the style of football they play on both sides of the ball.   Or the whole "process" mentality. 

 

That's the thing with McD so far..........the gameday McD pales in comparison to the other 349 days McD. 

 

Might be helpful to give the penalty stats some context.  First of all, the Bills were the 8th most penalized for the 10th most yards, but who's counting.  Out of 116 total penalties the defense was only flagged 34 times -- so roughly twice a game.  Is that "tolerable flaggage" coming from the Bills' best unit?  Conversely, the terrible OL and offense committed 63 penalties, while the ST were flagged 19 times.

 

I think it's quite fair to say that the areas of the team that needed to be addressed most are those areas guilty of "obscenely undisciplined play."

 

By the way, want to know the average number of penalties per team in the NFL last year?  111.5.  The Bills with their 116 flags were goons!  Goons I tell ya!

 

Oh, and also -- 6 of the 9 most penalized teams made the playoffs.

 

But then again, I'm incapable of "talking football" so I'm sure you'll ignore this post as you have others that don't fit your agenda to ridicule.

 

 

[Augie]

I’m going to look at McD like Allen and Edmunds and everyone else on the team. I want to see him be competent and showing progress. He’s still fairly new as a HC and I don’t expect perfection, but I do hope to see progress. I don’t want to churn through coaches, GM’s, schemes and players again unless it’s clear it’s not working. Even Belichick lost in Cleveland in his earlier HC days. Give him an adequate chance. Not a free pass, but an adequate chance. 

 

I feel pretty confident we will be pleased in the long run.