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Joe Marino (Locked on Bills): Two names he is hearing in 1st for Bills: Jonah Williams, DK Metcalf

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1 hour ago, Success said:

I don’t get why some fans are so down on Metcalf. He has all kinds of talent and could be a star in the NFL for years.  

 

Beane has my trust. Whoever he picks, I’m all in.

I think that is because he hasn’t proven to be great even in college, why would you expect him to suddenly blossom in the NFL?  Yes, his physical skills are VERY impressive, but you’d better be able to come up with a very plausible explanation for his lack of collegiate production if you are drafting him in the top 10.

 

i think that he will go much later than many be.

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7 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I think that is because he hasn’t proven to be great even in college, why would you expect him to suddenly blossom in the NFL?  Yes, his physical skills are VERY impressive, but you’d better be able to come up with a very plausible explanation for his lack of collegiate production if you are drafting him in the top 10.

 

i think that he will go much later than many be.

I have no clue whether Metcalf will or won't succeed, but it seems your exact words could have very reasonably been used last year with Josh

Edited by lookylookyherecomescookie
accuracy

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1 hour ago, Success said:

I don’t get why some fans are so down on Metcalf. He has all kinds of talent and could be a star in the NFL for years.  

 

Beane has my trust. Whoever he picks, I’m all in.

 

Honestly because most don't know anything about Metcalf.  They check stat sheets without context and say he wasn't productive in college.  And this is why they think he was a combine hero, they didn't know enough about him before the combine so they think he came out of nowhere.

 

The reality is before he got hurt in his 7th game, he had 529 yards, 21 ypc and 5 TDs in his first 6 games and was already widely considered to be the top WR in this draft and likely top 10 pick.  But because they didnt know that, they think he came out of no where at the combine and was "not productive" because they just checked season totals and ignore he did all that in just 6 games before he got hurt.  

 

Who knows what he does in the NFL, no one can tell the future.  But he is worthy of all the hype he is getting and of being an early first round pick.  

 

12 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I think that is because he hasn’t proven to be great even in college, why would you expect him to suddenly blossom in the NFL?  Yes, his physical skills are VERY impressive, but you’d better be able to come up with a very plausible explanation for his lack of collegiate production if you are drafting him in the top 10.

 

i think that he will go much later than many be.

 

No disrespect bud....but 529 yards, 5 TDS and 21 YPC threw his first 6 games is not being great in college?  Not to mention he already had 1 catch for 49 yards before he got hurt in his 7th game.  This is the false narrative I am talking about with DK.  He was already a guy being talked about as a top 10 pick before he got hurt and was having a big season.  Yet people want to act like he didnt have production as if he was on the field not producing.  He had a neck injury.

 

Edited by Alphadawg7
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5 minutes ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said:

I have no clue whether Metcalf will or won't succeed, but it seems your exact words could have very reasonably been used last year with Josh

I don’t disagree.  I also was pleasantly surprised at Allen’s performance last year, but by no means believe that he is now a guaranteed success.  I am optimistic, but not confident.

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5 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I don’t disagree.  I also was pleasantly surprised at Allen’s performance last year, but by no means believe that he is now a guaranteed success.  I am optimistic, but not confident.

Agreed. But I suspect most would feel he was worth a top 10 pick at this point, if only on potential if nothing else.   If your name is accurate, I think we could both agree JA is no Richie Lucas.

Edited by lookylookyherecomescookie
accuracy

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14 minutes ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said:

I have no clue whether Metcalf will or won't succeed, but it seems your exact words could have very reasonably been used last year with Josh

It's actually a good example. The physical traits are all there but the production isn't. What are the odds lightning strikes twice for the Bills?

Edited by JM57

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5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Honestly because most don't know anything about Metcalf.  They check stat sheets without context and say he wasn't productive in college.  And this is why they think he was a combine hero, they didn't know enough about him before the combine so they think he came out of nowhere.

 

The reality is before he got hurt in his 7th game, he had 529 yards, 21 ypc and 5 TDs in his first 6 games and was already widely considered to be the top WR in this draft and likely top 10 pick.  But because they didnt know that, they think he came out of no where at the combine and was "not productive" because they just checked season totals and ignore he did all that in just 6 games before he got hurt.  

 

Who knows what he does in the NFL, no one can tell the future.  But he is worthy of all the hype he is getting and of being an early first round pick.  

 

 

529 yards, 5 TDS and 21 YPC threw his first 6 games is not being great in college?  Not to mention he already had 1 catch for 49 yards before he got hurt in his 7th game.  This is the false narrative about DK that bugs me.  He was already a guy being talked about as a top 10 pick before he got hurt and was having a big season.  Yet people want to act like he didnt have production as if he was on the field not producing.  He had a neck injury.

 

The sample size for that success is very small.

 

He had 26 catches last year and 20 of those 26 came against TTU?, SIU, Kent and ULM.  6 combined against Alabama, LSU and Arkansas.  I don’t know who TTU is, but I know Southern Illinois, Kent and Louisiana Monroe are not good competition against and SEC team.

4 minutes ago, lookylookyherecomescookie said:

Agreed. But I suspect most would feel he was worth a top 10 pick at this point, if only on potential if nothing else.   If your name is accurate, I think we could both agree JA is no Richie Lucas.

Agreed and I remember Richie Lucas.

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1 minute ago, JM57 said:

It's actually a good example. The physical traits are all there but the production isn't. What are the odds lightning strikes twice for the Bills?

I agree. Just commenting that despite this, Josh was worth a top 10 pick at this point, at least in my opinion.

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2 minutes ago, JM57 said:

It's actually a good example. The physical traits are all there but the production isn't. What are the odds lightning strikes twice for the Bills?

I would argue that we have heard rumbles of thunder in the distance, but lightening hasn’t yet struck with Allen.  Again, I am optimistic abut his future, but his success is not certain by any means.

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7 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

The sample size for that success is very small.

 

He had 26 catches last year and 20 of those 26 came against TTU?, SIU, Kent and ULM.  6 combined against Alabama, LSU and Arkansas.  I don’t know who TTU is, but I know Southern Illinois, Kent and Louisiana Monroe are not good competition against and SEC team.

Agreed and I remember Richie Lucas.

 

Yes, 6 games is small...but it does not change he was having a great season and performing at a high level before the injury.  You said he had not been great in college, yet he was being great this season before an unfortunate injury happened.

 

So you cant just disregard it like it didnt happen, thats the point.  You disregarded it and want to go back to earlier in his career to validate ignoring his most recent body of work where he was a stud. 

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1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Yes, 6 games is small...but it does not change he was having a great season and performing at a high level before the injury.  You said he had not been great in college, yet he was being great this season before an unfortunate injury happened.

 

So you cant just disregard it like it didnt happen, thats the point.  You disregarded it and want to go back to earlier in his career to validate ignoring his most recent body of work where he was a stud. 

But his success came against who -  Texas Tech, Southern Illinois, Kent and Louisiana Monroe?  He averaged 2 catches per game - admittedly for an ungodly average against Alabama, LSU and Arkansas.  Note that Alabama shut him down after his early big play against them.

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9 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I would argue that we have heard rumbles of thunder in the distance, but lightening hasn’t yet struck with Allen.  Again, I am optimistic abut his future, but his success is not certain by any means.

No I'd absolutely agree with that on Allen. And then you add in another high variance prospect on offense too? Not the best strategy IMO.

 

Allen showed last year that his floor isn't as low as we maybe thought it was, but there's still tons of work to do to hit that very high ceiling. Now some fans want to bring in another low floor, high ceiling WR too? Like really, how likely is it that BOTH of them would be able to hit that ceiling, let alone one of them? Then add on the track record of Ole Miss WR in the league lately. Give me a safer pick. 

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32 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

But his success came against who -  Texas Tech, Southern Illinois, Kent and Louisiana Monroe?  He averaged 2 catches per game - admittedly for an ungodly average against Alabama, LSU and Arkansas.  Note that Alabama shut him down after his early big play against them.

Yeah, Alabama gave the corner safety help after the TD.  Against LSU, Ole Miss didn't take advantage of the fact that Greedy didn't play bump and run. Ole Miss should have had Metcalf run more comebacks and out routes.

Edited by the skycap

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1 minute ago, the skycap said:

Yeah, Alabama gave the corner safety help after the TD.  Against LSU, Ole Miss didn't take advantage of the fact that Greedy didn't play bump and run. Ole Miss should have had Metcalf run more comebacks and out routes.

I can understand why a team might gamble on Metcalf and he might actually prove them right, but I am looking for a prospect that has both very good size, strength, speed AND very good production.

 

There are probably 25 guys in the NBA with Metcalf’s athletic ability and size, yet I don’t want to draft any of them in the top 10 of the NFL draft.

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41 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

But his success came against who -  Texas Tech, Southern Illinois, Kent and Louisiana Monroe?  He averaged 2 catches per game - admittedly for an ungodly average against Alabama, LSU and Arkansas.  Note that Alabama shut him down after his early big play against them.

 

I didn't realize DK faced those teams alone.  

 

And again...this is where I keep saying people don't know much about DK and are again just stat box scouting to find info to fit their narrative.  You just said he averaged 2 catches a game against Alabama, LSU, and Arkansas.  That is incorrect.  He was hurt in the first quarter against Arkansas and already had 1 catch for 49 yards in that first quarter.  So it wasn't a full game but you counted it as one so you can make this 2 catch per game claim.  He already had the one 49 yard catch early in the game, which means he was more than likely going to exceed the 2 catch average you misapplied to this game.  Basically you just looked at his stats to find something to fit your narrative and then misapplied the data.

 

Alabama:  Best defense and best team in the country all season until the National Championship Game.  You are hating on him for not doing more against them?  I mean he had 2 catches for 92 yards and a TD, which was a 75 yard TD against the best D in the country.  Meanwhile, AJ Brown only had 3 catches for 34 yards, no TDs in that same game.  So maybe it had to do more with Alabama being the substantially better overall team dominating a lesser talented team?

 

LSU:  Same thing, substantially better team dominated them where the Ole Miss QB Ta'amu had a terrible game.  

 

So sorry, I do not agree at all with your assessment.  Its all good, we dont have to agree on every player.  

 

GO BILLS

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2 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

.

What production in college was that based on?

 

1 hour ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I don’t disagree.  I also was pleasantly surprised at Allen’s performance last year, but by no means believe that he is now a guaranteed success.  I am optimistic, but not confident.

 

Youre just flat out wrong about his lack of production. Look at his game stats from last year before the injury. 

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1 hour ago, OldTimer1960 said:

But his success came against who -  Texas Tech, Southern Illinois, Kent and Louisiana Monroe?  He averaged 2 catches per game - admittedly for an ungodly average against Alabama, LSU and Arkansas.  Note that Alabama shut him down after his early big play against them.

Right.  Press man once without saftey help went for 6.  He was doubled the remainder of the game vs Alabama.  

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Josh Gordon had 700 yards with 17 tds in his only good season in college. Stats aren’t the only precursor. His strengths would fit extremely well with JA. I’m fine with Metcalf. He can develop properly with the receivers we already have. Not my first choice but would not hate the pick at all. 

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https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-why-dk-metcalf-is-pffs-top-wide-receiver-in-the-2019-nfl-draft

9 minutes ago, GimmeSomeProcess said:

Josh Gordon had 700 yards with 17 tds in his only good season in college. Stats aren’t the only precursor. His strengths would fit extremely well with JA. I’m fine with Metcalf. He can develop properly with the receivers we already have. Not my first choice but would not hate the pick at all. 

I believe that's why Beane targeted Beasley and Brown. One, to teach Metcalf how to run precision routes (Beasley) and to be a deep threat (Brown).

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