Mark Vader Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Taron Johnson? Definitely. An unexpected surprise for sure. Although he did have a good East-West game, and hew was a smaller school player to watch for. I just wonder if Taron Johnson will ever be a real starting corner in this league or is he a permanent nickel back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Just now, Mark Vader said: Definitely. An unexpected surprise for sure. Although he did have a good East-West game, and hew was a smaller school player to watch for. I just wonder if Taron Johnson will ever be a real starting corner in this league or is he a permanent nickel back? Nickle is very important in today's NFL.....and to our defense in particular 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Just now, Mark Vader said: Definitely. An unexpected surprise for sure. Although he did have a good East-West game, and hew was a smaller school player to watch for. I just wonder if Taron Johnson will ever be a real starting corner in this league or is he a permanent nickel back? He's essentially a starter given how much the Bills play Nickel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 9 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said: Pointing out your terrible logic is a stronger contribution than your terrible logic. Could be, but then again you didn't actually point out how the logic was terrible...so really you've made no contribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Does one of these players play OLB and one of them play MLB? Or am I not correct on this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Could be, but then again you didn't actually point out how the logic was terrible...so really you've made no contribution. Your argument was, “Edmunds can’t be bad because our defense is #2 and you can’t have a #2 defense with a bad LB.” Horrific logic with zero analysis. Which I demonstrated with: ”You can have the #2 defense with a LB who hasn’t been good, look at the Bills.” In the biz, we call that “mocking.” Now, maybe you didn’t like that one enough, I have more. ”You can’t have a #2 defense with a bad starting CB, so Phillip Gaines must be good!” See? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 2 hours ago, blacklabel said: These hindsight posts are getting ridiculous. Just because another player in the same draft had a good game doesn't mean the player your team picked is all of a sudden unworthy of the draft slot he was selected in. Vander Esch made a few flash plays last night. Edmunds has had his own share of big plays as well. Edmunds is still also only 20 years old and handling a ton of responsibilities on defense already. He's only gonna get better. He has the higher ceiling and more athletic talent. Both guys are probably going to be good, solid players for the next 10 years in this league. AMEN! When I look at last years draft, then see people tell the Bills what they could have done better, it makes me wonder. I mean, was that draft not good enough? There is ALWAYS something you could do better, but it’s pointless to rehash every pick with perfect hindsight. Having said all that, we’ve put a lot of chips in for Josh and Edmunds. I feel pretty confident about Edmunds, and if someone did a little bit better, then hats off to them. I won’t spend any time worrying about it. If we knew Josh was a sure thing, I’d be so happy I’d let the Cowboys chose whichever LB they want! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Nickle is very important in today's NFL.....and to our defense in particular 4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: He's essentially a starter given how much the Bills play Nickel. I think that we are grateful that Taron Johnson is going to be remembered more for his play than for getting hit in the head by a football during his gauntlet run at the combine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Just now, BringBackOrton said: Your argument was, “Edmunds can’t be bad because our defense is #2 and you can’t have a #2 defense with a bad LB.” Horrific logic with zero analysis. Which I demonstrated with: ”You can have the #2 defense with a LB who hasn’t been good, look at the Bills.” In the biz, we call that “mocking.” Now, maybe you didn’t like that one enough, I have more. ”You can’t have a #2 defense with a bad starting CB, so Phillip Gaines must be good!” See? Oh...you don't know what a premise is. That might explain that. I mean, that must be the case, otherwise you would understand why comparing my statement to one about the #2 corner back is asinine. After all, you can't scheme around a hole in the interior of the defense...whereas you can with a corner back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 (edited) Why can’t they both be great? And I hate this 20/20 stuff. Both were highly regarded, but no way to know on draft night how they will play in NFL. You go get the guy you feel best fits your plans. Maybin once upon a time was highly regarded going into the draft and a 1000 other busts were too. Just like the Brady’s of the world went in the 6th round. You cant fault Beane for getting his guy just becuse a later pick also is playing well. Even more so since Edmunds is so young and has a ton of his own potential. Edited November 30, 2018 by Alphadawg7 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Oh...you don't know what a premise is. That might explain that. I mean, that must be the case, otherwise you would understand why comparing my statement to one about the #2 corner back is asinine. After all, you can't scheme around a hole in the interior of the defense...whereas you can with a corner back. Sure you can. You put a big fat tub of goo like Star out there to control blockers and make it easier for the LB’s to not get swallowed up and have less holes to fill. No one said Edmunds is a hole. They just said he hasn’t been good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 1 minute ago, BringBackOrton said: Sure you can. You put a big fat tub of goo like Star out there to control blockers and make it easier for the LB’s to not get swallowed up and have less holes to fill. No one said Edmunds is a hole. They just said he hasn’t been good. Star? The guy who has played less than 50% of the snaps this year? Our DTs have been good, but nothing to write home about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Star? The guy who has played less than 50% of the snaps this year? Our DTs have been good, but nothing to write home about. Yeah Star plays on running downs, you know, downs where gap control and getting by blockers matters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Star? The guy who has played less than 50% of the snaps this year? Our DTs have been good, but nothing to write home about. They are doing their job on a good defense......what more do you want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhickedWilliams Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 5 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: The Juju miss was worse ? Im trying to give Zay all the slack but I’m gonna need one monster game from him eventually. Juju is at it every other week Yih are comoring a seasoned vet Ned vet hall of qb tossing to him and a first year rookie Allen.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jpsredemption Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 There was no need to trade up and burn a critical pick on Edmunds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D521646 Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Anyone mention that LVE also has the benefit of Sean Lee on the sidelines which is invaluable, IMO. Who does TE have? Also, I see Zay taking a bit longer to develop for sure, but he has shown flashes of what could be. Tim- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said: There was no need to trade up and burn a critical pick on Edmunds. I disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 1 hour ago, oldmanfan said: I thing you are wrong. You have two guys that have played about 3/4s of an NFL season. To say that indicates anything about long term potential and who should or should not have been drafted is folly. The world in general has no idea what the word patience means anymore. regarding the WRs, it also takes time. Are you old enough to remember Eric Moulds? Yeah I mean I loved Moulds at his prime but was drafted ahead of and behind Keyshawn Johnson, Marvin Harrison, Terrelle Owens (actually probably the best WR draft ever). All of whom were just as good WRs in their own right and produced early.. regardless Moulds or Muhsin Muhammad are the exception. My point is there's not many WRs who go for 250 yards years 1 and 2 and then have Mould's career. But WRs can take more time than others. I wanted to talk DEFENSE. Simply probability wise there's more good careers that have started out well (because they're good) than took time (because most 2 yr of low snap counts aren't good). Obviously you shouldn't give up on a high drafted player within 3-4 years because there are plenty that pan out well eventually. But you can certainly count someone's chance of succeeding diminishing every low year of low production. But Edmunds isn't playing poorly and is marginally below Esch IMO anyway. By year's end one might widen the gap.. and probability wise.. if Esch keeps his Saints performance up and say gets DROY.. then he's very likely to be good (unless he's Merriman juicing) vs a guy we think will be Urlacher. We saw Darby and Tre kick *** rookie year and we knew they were going to be good players. If they look shaky.. then we're hoping they are going to be good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: Yeah I mean I loved Moulds at his prime but was drafted ahead of and behind Keyshawn Johnson, Marvin Harrison, Terrelle Owens (actually probably the best WR draft ever). All of whom were just as good WRs in their own right and produced early.. regardless Moulds or Muhsin Muhammad are the exception. My point is there's not many WRs who go for 250 yards years 1 and 2 and then have Mould's career. But WRs can take more time than others. I wanted to talk DEFENSE. Simply probability wise there's more good careers that have started out well (because they're good) than took time (because most 2 yr of low snap counts aren't good). Obviously you shouldn't give up on a high drafted player within 3-4 years because there are plenty that pan out well eventually. But you can certainly count someone's chance of succeeding diminishing every low year of low production. But Edmunds isn't playing poorly and is marginally below Esch IMO anyway. By year's end one might widen the gap.. and probability wise.. if Esch keeps his Saints performance up and say gets DROY.. then he's very likely to be good (unless he's Merriman juicing) vs a guy we think will be Urlacher. We saw Darby and Tre kick *** rookie year and we knew they were going to be good players. If they look shaky.. then we're hoping they are going to be good players. You don't think Edmunds looks shaky, do you? He just needs to learn to read his keys more, and that takes a bit of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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