Bills QB Josh Allen is changing skeptical minds. ---- Brady Quinn apparently prefers potential over results

[Foxx]

2 minutes ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

Brady, Wilson, Roethlisberger, Warner did it in year one.  Kaepernick got there in year two, so did Marino and Unitas.  Wentz led the Eagles much of the season last year then they won with a backup.  None of this matters though because there have be over 50 Super Bowls and 4 of those wins have come in the last 20 years.  So in the modern era, about 20-25% of Super Bowls have been won by QB's with 2 years or less experience in the league.  It is not nearly as unheard of as many of you are trying to make it out to be.

sorry but this not very accurate. please check your facts.

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

19 minutes ago, Foxx said:

sorry but this not very accurate. please check your facts.

That was off the top of my head.  If my facts are wrong please educate me since you seem to know. 

19 minutes ago, Foxx said:

sorry but this not very accurate. please check your facts.

Actually I just checked pro football reference and they all seem to be accurate.  Brady, Roethlisberger and Wilson all did it in year two and Warner in year one.  Kaepernick and Marino definitely got there in year two and Kaepernick was one play away from winning it all.  Unitas is the only one I did not check.

Edited December 2, 2018 by K-GunJimKelly12

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

16 minutes ago, Foxx said:

sorry but this not very accurate. please check your facts.

Hiding now?

[iinii]

About what?

[Foxx]

1 minute ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

Hiding now?

sheesh, relax will ya. i've got other things going on. 

your references were correct. while 25% is not great odds, they aren't bad. i still think it a stretch.

[Domdab99]

I'm sold. Allen is the franchise QB we have been waiting decades for. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

I'm sold. Allen is the franchise QB we have been waiting decades for. 

He’s definitely improving.  

 

Losing KB will be a huge plus for the Bills 

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

Allen's 4th quarter stats:

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by K-GunJimKelly12

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

Bottom line:  Is he improving?  Is he developing?  The answer is yes and that is what most people stated they wanted to see coming back from the injury.  While he still makes some of the same mistakes, such as holding on the ball too long or some accuracy issues, the ratio of mistakes versus good plays is steadily moving in the right direction.  He's been more decisive with his throws and has shown the ability to extend plays and gain critical first downs.   The game is beginning to slow down for him and I think getting Dabol out of the press box and on to the field has helped as well.    

[Ronin]

On 11/30/2018 at 12:19 AM, Johnnycage46 said:

 

I disagree.  I think his medium passing accuracy is very good.  His short game is very fixable.

 

Not really all that complex, is it?

 

I stated a fact whereas you stated an opinion.  

 

It's a FACT that there isn't a franchise QB in the league that has not mastered the short-medium game.  

 

It's your OPINION that his short-game is very fixable and that his medium passing accuracy is very good.  

 

Apparently things like that are a bit too complex for you.  I'll make an active effort not to challenge you anymore.  Don't want to push you over the top or anything.  

 

[oldmanfan]

3 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

I stated a fact whereas you stated an opinion.  

 

It's a FACT that there isn't a franchise QB in the league that has not mastered the short-medium game.  

 

It's your OPINION that his short-game is very fixable and that his medium passing accuracy is very good.  

 

Apparently things like that are a bit too complex for you.  I'll make an active effort not to challenge you anymore.  Don't want to push you over the top or anything.  

 

Mastered the short-intermediate game?   As in never misses a pass?  And your statements are facts vs. everyone else just having an opinion?  Get over yourself.  You're just another wannabe NFL coach that thinks he knows it all and doesn't.

[Ronin]

On 11/29/2018 at 10:54 PM, Johnnycage46 said:

 

But here's the thing...you can't play the "take the such and such away". If you do that you have to reverse ALL things (penalties that negated good throws, drops, etc).

 

You mention over reaction to his last game...that's the point I am making with his "inaccuracy issues". Oberblown.

Exactly.  Good point.  Its like saying well take Brady away and the Pats suck...yes that is true lol.  But they DO have Brady and Allen did rush for those yards.

 

Sure you can, UNLESS, you want to boil down a game to two passes and use those as an indication of a good game.  The balance of his stats SUCKED in that game.  

 

So OK, I realize that you're not the deepest thinker in general, but the antithesis of your statement is that if a QB blows on 90% of his passing plays generally speaking, but has two big plays in a game, he's good.  OK, as I've said, everyone's entitled to their opinion.  There isn't a franchise QB that plays like that though.  

 

Frankly, I think it's laughable that anyone would consider being good on a mere two or three passes/game, but hey, that's what makes forums so much fun to read.  

 

The critique of Allen by a Football Outsiders guy said it best about Allen's passing game, he said; 

 

"The conundrum with Allen is that these flashes -- the moments of pure brilliance -- come so few and far between. Allen dazzles once or twice a game with a play that feels impossible, only to look like a late-round pick for the remainder of his appearance."

 

That's exactly how that game went.  This past game was much better and his best of the season easily, IMO anyway, despite having had 2 INTs, both pretty much his fault.  

 

He's showing promise, but he's also going to get killed running like that.  It's only a matter of time before he gets clocked by a large LB moving at full tilt.  I don't see his career lasting more than a few years with him running like that and finishing runs head-first at the rate that he does.  Sooner or later teams are going to start adjusting to that defensively.  I really hope that the staff works that out post-haste.  

Edited December 3, 2018 by TaskersGhost

[zow2]

I liked seeing some quick, short high % passes called in the second half.  Not everything has to be a 20 yard rope or a bomb.  Brady and Rodgers for example make a living out of short throws mixed in to their games. 

 

Allen is starting to look like the best QB out of this draft, with the exception of Mayfield.  But I don't know how much better or more accurate Mayfield will get going forward?  He's good now.  Will he get better?   With Allen you feel like he will get much more comfortable and more accurate a season or two from now.   

 

Anyway, i was skeptical.. I didn't want to draft Josh Allen.  So i give credit to Beane and his staff here for moving up to get themselves into position to draft him.

[Johnnycage46]

40 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

I stated a fact whereas you stated an opinion.  

 

It's a FACT that there isn't a franchise QB in the league that has not mastered the short-medium game.  

 

It's your OPINION that his short-game is very fixable and that his medium passing accuracy is very good.  

 

Apparently things like that are a bit too complex for you.  I'll make an active effort not to challenge you anymore.  Don't want to push you over the top or anything.  

 

I have some other OPONIONS that I am not allowed to share on this site too

30 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

Sure you can, UNLESS, you want to boil down a game to two passes and use those as an indication of a good game.  The balance of his stats SUCKED in that game.  

 

So OK, I realize that you're not the deepest thinker in general, but the antithesis of your statement is that if a QB blows on 90% of his passing plays generally speaking, but has two big plays in a game, he's good.  OK, as I've said, everyone's entitled to their opinion.  There isn't a franchise QB that plays like that though.  

 

Frankly, I think it's laughable that anyone would consider being good on a mere two or three passes/game, but hey, that's what makes forums so much fun to read.  

 

The critique of Allen by a Football Outsiders guy said it best about Allen's passing game, he said; 

 

"The conundrum with Allen is that these flashes -- the moments of pure brilliance -- come so few and far between. Allen dazzles once or twice a game with a play that feels impossible, only to look like a late-round pick for the remainder of his appearance."

 

That's exactly how that game went.  This past game was much better and his best of the season easily, IMO anyway, despite having had 2 INTs, both pretty much his fault.  

 

He's showing promise, but he's also going to get killed running like that.  It's only a matter of time before he gets clocked by a large LB moving at full tilt.  I don't see his career lasting more than a few years with him running like that and finishing runs head-first at the rate that he does.  Sooner or later teams are going to start adjusting to that defensively.  I really hope that the staff works that out post-haste.  

Stalkeeerrrrrr

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

11 hours ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

Allen's 4th quarter stats:

 

those look pretty darn good for a snapshot.  

 

 

[Ronin]

On 11/30/2018 at 12:19 AM, Johnnycage46 said:

 

I disagree.  I think his medium passing accuracy is very good.  His short game is very fixable.

 

Not really all that complex, is it?

 

And frankly, talking about not being complex, neither is going to Allen's stats and splits to see where he's performing and where he isn't.  

 

His behind the LoS passes are his best.  That would be his "short-game," or at least a big part of it, for you.  Having said that, it's still not even average by NFL QB standards.  Funny thing tho, everyone got all hopped up over Allen's deep arm when his deep-game isn't very good at all.  

 

He's 6 of 29 (20.7%) for 250 yards, 1 TD for throws that are thrown over 20 yards.  2 of 12 over 30, and 1 of 8 over 40.  

 

See, people that understand football from having watched it for decades, should understand that teams simply aren't built around deep-games.  The deep-ball is good to have in an arsenal, but almost no QBs have Allen's arm-strength, but lo-and-behold they still win Super Bowls.  Now how can that possibly be.  I know, you'll have that hamster running on that wheel in your head for a while trying to piece that one together.  

 

And BTW, that's really not far off the mark for deep-throws, even by the best QBs.  

 

Rodgers is 21 of 59 (35.6%) for 834 and 5 TDs, he's 7 of 20 over 30, and 3 of 5 over 40.  

 

Brady is 9 of 35 (25.7%) for 297 and 2 TDs, 4 of 17 over 30, and 0 for 6  over 40, far more in line with Allen's numbers.  

 

The PRIMARY different between them and Allen, and the rest of the true franchise QBs and Allen, is that their short-medium numbers are quite signficantly higher. 

 

But you know all of that in your condescension, didn't you?  You're taken a look at all of that and understood it before commenting and repeatedly telling me that I don't know as much as I think I do and otherwise implying that I know very little and that my takes, which are ALL based on thorough analyses, right?  

 

Lastly, it once again goes to show that this "deep-arm" stuff is overrated, entirely.  And note, I didn't say useless, what DID I say?  I said OVERRATED, which is OBVIOUSLY the case since you can run the same analyses for all of the franchise QBs and come up with similar.  

 

On a side note, Allen's numbers are the worst of ALL the major QBs selected in the 2018 Draft.  He's got worse completion %, Rating, TD/INT ratio, YPA, and Rating than Mayfield, Darnold, Rosen, and even Jackson.  He only has a better YPA than Rosen by about a quarter of a yard.  And it's a very difficult argument to suggest that any of those QBs have notably better circumstances when three of those four teams are a combined 10-25-1 and when not one of those teams ranks above-average in offense. 

 

In FACT, the Jets rank 30th in yardage offense, we rank 31st, and the Cards rank 32nd.  

 

As I've said and continue to maintain, Allen's success in this league, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER QB, WILL BE fully determined by how well he masters the short-medium game.  Right now it's well below average and not significantly better than ANY of his draft peers, NONE OF WHOM anyone is raving about in terms of their passing games.  If that doesn't improve then he's not going to be a franchise QB in Buffalo.  

 

Now, that's an awful lot of actual FACTS and true DATA that no doubt you've already researched independently before opening your pie-hole, right?  THAT (along with the associated lengthy history of NFL QB play) is what I'm basing my assessments on.  

 

YOU on the other hand are using ego to launch into your ridiculously oversimplified, and clearly WRONG arguments.  So if you don't mind, please get off my pant-leg.  

 

Otherwise, enjoy your  over-simplified world of narrative driven gibberish.  

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by TaskersGhost

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Buffalo Bills‏Verified account @buffalobills 2h2 hours ago

 

9 rushes for 135 yards. That's the most rushing yards by a Buffalo Bills quarterback in franchise history.

 

 

 

Josh was the first Rookie to rush for 100 yards in 2 consecutive games dating back to 1961 (if I heard the announcers correctly) 

[Ronin]

24 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

I have some other OPONIONS that I am not allowed to share on this site too

Stalkeeerrrrrr

 

LOL 

 

I'd love to hear one of those OPONIANS.  

 

What, do you live here?   

 

It's funny, arguments always seem to boil down to "stalking," (in your case), chants of "trolling," cheap name-calling, and other egotistically oriented posts that suggest both anger-management as well as inabilities to cope with being wrong on the parts of people that not only have run out of whatever basis they're arguing on, but also on entirely refuted arguments.  

 

And it's funny, I was thinking the same on the Stalking part of it given the repetitive completely lacking in much veracity attacks you've launched against the facts that I've laid out.  

Edited December 3, 2018 by TaskersGhost

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

http://relatednews.net/76064/why-josh-allen-is-already-in-rare-company-plus-4-observations-from-week-13-in-the-nfl/

 

All told Allen had 135 yards rushing, a new team record, breaking his mark of 99 yards from the week before. CBS’ statistical department reported that Allen is the first rookie quarterback to run for 90 yards or more in back-to-back games since Billy Kilmer did it with Washington in 1961.

 

 

“You saw it. I don’t think I gotta to do too much talking,” said Miami DE Robert Quinn of Allen’s performance. “I don’t know how much credit he gets on his elusiveness or speed, but that guy’s got some talent over there. I think Buffalo got a nice little quarterback on their hands. Some stuff he did is really just uncoachable. Put us in a bind to the very last play. He’s a pretty special kid. If he continues to grow, he’s got all the arm talent. Just keep your eyes open, I guess.”

Edited December 3, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[Ronin]

On 11/30/2018 at 7:55 AM, Captain Hindsight said:

Because he wouldnt have attempted that deep ball to foster. He would taken the sack

 

Missed opportunities is the Tyrod Taylor story

 

Yeah, but he's showing more potential than Tryod, don't you think?  

 

I mean his running ability alone appears, ironically, to be better than Tyrod's.  I simply don't think he'll last beyond the 2020 season if he keeps running like that despite how his passing game shapes up.  (or conversely not)  

 

He really needs to start sliding once he's past the 1st-down.  I don't like him exposing himself like that.  

 

His passing game is entirely a different matter.  We'll have a far better indicator as to that after next season.