Pegula Sports & Entertainment Hires CAA ICON to Conduct a Feasibility Study for a Potential New Bills Stadium or Major Renovations to New Era Field

[RochesterRob]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

I don't think this is true.

 

Past estimates during the Bills in Toronto Series (which was largely considered a huge failure) pegged the number of fans at Bills games as roughly 15%. I never saw this figure attached to the number of season ticket holders in Southern Ontario. 

 

So for a sell out, the Bills get about 10,000 Canadians per game, which seems right. The issue is that many of these Canadians are fans of the other team. 

 

My family has season tickets in the lower bowl near the goal line on the oppositions bench side of the field. Our section is always packed with Canadian away fans who come down to watch their team play against the Bills. Almost all of the New England fans in our section when we play the Pats are from Southern Ontario. 

 

My family has had seasons to almost 30 years. Since around 2000, I haven't met a single Canadian who has them as well. You get tons of people who like going down with a big group of friends or on a bus in November and December when the tickets are cheap, but otherwise there aren't many people who are going down to support the Bills. It's essentially just a spectacle where you get to watch drunk people smash themselves through tables and act like morons, with a football game following the tailgate. 

 

Of the 10,000 Canadians going to each home game, my guess is about half of them are Bills fans. Maybe less. The Bills are mostly just a punch line up here because they've been so bad for so long. 

  Your experiences are anecdotal which has problems in terms of arriving at true figures for Canadian ticket holders.  The numbers will fluctuate with the results on the field and those Pats fans today might very well jump off of the wagon  when Tom and Bill ride off into the sunset.

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Sure.

 

Canada as a whole has next to no history of publicly funding stadiums. The politics of it are way too messy and it's not something politicians can support if they plan on keeping their jobs. 

 

Toronto is never going to be able to build a world class stadium, unless they make an ambitious play to go after the Summer Olympics with the hope that the federal government would pour money into it.

 

Without a unifying event as the reason for building a stadium, there's no way the public can fund a new stadium that would only cater to the "elites" in Toronto. 

  Well said on the politics as it squares with what my Canadian contacts say.  I would also say that Toronto would make an excellent location for the Summer Olympics which would kick the door open for a stadium that could be refitted for football.

[RochesterRob]

12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

I'm going to save the Pegulas a boatload on this "study"

.

 

Here it is:  if you're paying, it's feasible.

  There was an Associated Press story many years ago about the time consulting got to be big business about a paroled bank robber.  Upon being released he picked up a copy of the local paper with a headline about a consulting firm getting a million dollar contract for a study.  The paroled robber quipped "I clearly see now that I was in wrong business and could have legally kept the dollar value I had stolen and avoided prison had I known about consulting 15 years ago."

[jrober38]

Just now, RochesterRob said:

  Your experiences are anecdotal which has problems in terms of arriving at true figures for Canadian ticket holders.  The numbers will fluctuate with the results on the field and those Pats fans today might very well jump off of the wagon  when Tom and Bill ride off into the sunset.

 

Maybe. But probably not.

 

Football fans don't usually flip what team they support once they've settled on the team they support. You might get some bandwagon fans, but not many. 

 

This is why away games like the Raiders are such a huge draw for the Bills because there are so many fans in Southern Ontario who grew up cheering for them in the 80s and 90s. Same with the Dolphins, with people who grew up cheering for Dan Marino. 

 

Most of my friends are football fans, and hardly any of them cheer for the Bills. They might go to a Bills game every year or every other year, and throw on a dated jersey that they bought 10 years ago at the first game they went to, but they're not Bills fans. They're just football fans who go to be entertained, but they're really fans of other teams. They go to Buffalo every once and a while because the team they really like is too far away. 

 

A better team on the field would probably result in more Canadians going to games, but probably not more season tickets and potential Private Seat Licenses which is what they'll need to build a new facility. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

2 hours ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

 

It's a no brainer...

East of Buffalo according to Dunkirk 

 

lol    

[RochesterRob]

8 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Maybe. But probably not.

 

Football fans don't usually flip what team they support once they've settled on the team they support. You might get some bandwagon fans, but not many. 

 

This is why away games like the Raiders are such a huge draw for the Bills because there are so many fans in Southern Ontario who grew up cheering for them in the 80s and 90s. Same with the Dolphins, with people who grew up cheering for Dan Marino. 

 

Most of my friends are football fans, and hardly any of them cheer for the Bills. They might go to a Bills game every year or every other year, and throw on a dated jersey that they bought 10 years ago at the first game they went to, but they're not Bills fans. They're just football fans who go to be entertained, but they're really fans of other teams. They go to Buffalo every once and a while because the team they really like is too far away. 

 

A better team on the field would probably result in more Canadians going to games, but probably not more season tickets and potential Private Seat Licenses which is what they'll need to build a new facility. 

  New fans are born every year.  New fans are made every year.  I'd be more worried if the human race stopped reproducing today but there will be fans that will take a different team than their father or grandfather rooted for.  Some will do the things that you mention and if the Bills can win consistently then they can pick up new fans.  It is about tomorrow for this team which is a good thing as it is unwritten to this point.

 

  By the way Dolphins gear has gotten very difficult to spot nowadays versus 15 years ago in WNY.  I think the lack of star players, imposing coaches, and gaudy W-L records is trying the patience of many Dolphin fans who were very used to being spoiled prior to this century.  I can't believe that I just put that in those terms. 

Edited November 28, 2018 by RochesterRob

[Mr. WEO]

On ‎11‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 10:11 AM, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

She doesn't have a billion and a half sitting around???

 

Jeez, that will be news to many here--we have been told over and over how the Pegulas have "at least" 4-5 billion cash on hand.  And that if they need more "he can just drill another well". 

 

Anyway,  it doesn't seem to have occurred to Kim that, if you don't have the cash on hand to build your new house, you are allowed to do what most everyone else in the world does in such situations:  borrow the rest.

[buffalobillsfootball]

2 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

This is well intentioned but Ontario is dead broke. They're not giving any money to support a sports franchise in a different country. 

 

The economics behind dumping piles of money into a sport that plays 10 games a year has never made any sense. 

 

Toronto is an international city that draws tourists from all over the world. Connecting it to WNY, and a market that probably doesn't send many people to visit and installing services that will cost significant cost in upkeep and wages for the people running the transit systems seems like a proposition that will lose a ton of money for the province. 

 

Buffalo needs to figure out its stadium on its own. Figure out how to build a 65,000 seat stadium right downtown with a roof that can be used 12 months a year, and then figure out how to get 20 events in their each year. Anything more than that isn't happening. 

 

I can't really speak for oldmanfan but I think he was referring to the "development of rapid transit systems connecting downtown Buffalo (including the Southtowns), Toronto, and Niagara Falls."

 

Our regions need to improve the transportation between TO and BUFNIAG... there is incredible investment already ongoing in Niagara Falls Canada ---> Ontario will not ignore that and knows the lifeline for that city in Toronto... no reason we need Ontario to spend a dime in Buffalo Niagara - but on the Canadian side?  Why not?

 

[SoCal Deek]

What would be interesting is a combination downtown football stadium and hockey arena. Im not sure it’s ever been done but it’d be the perfect fit for WNY. If they can roll the grass field in from outside in Phoenix why not do something similar with ice rink? 

[billsfan_34]

On 11/27/2018 at 9:45 AM, zow2 said:

 

I am for a downtown stadium but can live with a full renovation of the current site.    If they choose to renovate, I'd like to see them throw a retractable roof on the place.  Make it a year round venue.  Maybe since I'm getting older, i just don't love sitting out in 25 degrees and 30mph wind gusts anymore....or steady cold rain.  

I have thought retractable roof as well- then my thought was is the structure strong enough to hold the additional weight. 

[Punching Bag]

I wonder how many who favor a downtown stadium spend much time each week tailgating.

[BillnutinHouston]

12 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

What would be interesting is a combination downtown football stadium and hockey arena. Im not sure it’s ever been done but it’d be the perfect fit for WNY. If they can roll the grass field in from outside in Phoenix why not do something similar with ice rink? 

 

I would be shocked if this combo wasn't part of the study.  Including a convention center similar to Lucas Oil Stadium/Indiana Convention Center.

 

https://www.visitindy.com/indianapolis-indiana-convention-center-lucas-oil-stadium

 

This is a completely "One Buffalo" concept and the convention center helps to justify public financing.

Edited November 29, 2018 by BillnutinHouston

[Jrb1979]

18 hours ago, Limeaid said:

I wonder how many who favor a downtown stadium spend much time each week tailgating.

There will still be tailgating but it will most likely in lots owned by the Bills. It will cut out a lot of the stupidity that goes on in the private lots. 

[jrober38]

On 11/28/2018 at 2:46 PM, buffalobillsfootball said:

 

I can't really speak for oldmanfan but I think he was referring to the "development of rapid transit systems connecting downtown Buffalo (including the Southtowns), Toronto, and Niagara Falls."

 

Our regions need to improve the transportation between TO and BUFNIAG... there is incredible investment already ongoing in Niagara Falls Canada ---> Ontario will not ignore that and knows the lifeline for that city in Toronto... no reason we need Ontario to spend a dime in Buffalo Niagara - but on the Canadian side?  Why not?

 

 

It just won't happen. 

 

The provincial government is broke, and the politics of investing cash into an area with a tiny population relative to the overall province is always very difficult to make happen. 

 

Any major public works projects are focused on Toronto. Toronto adds more people per year than Niagara Falls, ON has in its existing population. The city desperately needs massive infrastructure projects to commence, particularly with a new subway line, and all the key government players from the feds, to the province to the city are trying to figure out how to spend about $10 billion on that project. 

[buffalobillsfootball]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

Toronto adds more people per year than Niagara Falls, ON has in its existing population. The city desperately needs massive infrastructure projects to commence, particularly with a new subway line, and all the key government players from the feds, to the province to the city are trying to figure out how to spend about $10 billion on that project. 

 

All the more reason to improve public transportation.

[jrober38]

21 hours ago, Limeaid said:

I wonder how many who favor a downtown stadium spend much time each week tailgating.

 

Doesn't matter.

 

Tailgating is a sunk cost for an NFL franchise. This is about improving the game day experience and making the games more appealing to more people. Reality is that once late November rolls around, the Bills are only really capable of selling tickets to college kids and men in their 20s and early 30s. It's a major uphill battle to get seniors, children (they hardly go anyways because the crowd is so immature) and women. 

 

The NFL is a business, and if you're going to spend $1-1.5 billion on a stadium, you're going to do what you can to create an environment where instead of people filling themselves up on food in the parking lots, you'll encourage them to come to the games on an empty stomach and eat products from the concession stands instead. 

 

I get that people love tailgating, but a downtown stadium in a more accessible area with a roof appeals to a hell of a lot more people than a stadium in the middle of nowhere where the weather is terrible for half the home games. 

1 minute ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

 

All the more reason to improve public transportation.

 

I'm talking about a new subway in the city.

 

The city has been talking about a project called the Yonge Relief Line for about 6-7 years now. The main subway artery to downtown along Yonge Street bottlenecks where it meets the east/west Bloor line, and the result is a disaster at Bloor Station every morning between 7:30 and 9:30 am. Same thing going the other way once people get off work. 

 

The project is valued at about $10 billion, and it'll add 5 new stations and siphon off a ton of the people who head downtown to work from the east end of the city, reducing the overwhelming pressure on Bloor Station. 

 

There's still no plan on when that'll happen, even though it would help hundreds of thousands of people get down town. 

 

If they can't figure that one out, no chance they devote massive public money to service Niagara Falls and its 88,000 residents. 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[buffalobillsfootball]

20 hours ago, jrober38 said:

If they can't figure that one out, no chance they devote massive public money to service Niagara Falls and its 88,000 residents. 

 

....88,000 residents + 15-20 million visitors annually.

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

The train would give access to....downtown parking spaces that would be near the stadium?

Edited November 30, 2018 by Mr. WEO

[The Wiz]

Ok this made me laugh.

 

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/platform/amp/satire/2018/11/30/18119623/report-pegulas-push-for-new-buffalo-bills-stadium-spurred-by-wobbly-cafeteria-chair-this-is-satire

 

Pegula was seen shifting around in the chair in a growingly-frustrated manner before falling to his hands and knees with a handful of napkins in an effort to level it. According to sources close to the incident, Pegula was overheard saying, “G**damn 500-million-dollar renovation my a$$.”