Ed Oliver won't be a Buffalo Bill

[mannc]

15 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

 

I imagine this is probably similar to the NBA, where basically no NBA team outside of the Lakers is "profitable" but if they ever wanted to be, all of them could be. Certainly college programs could scrub their budgets to find a couple more hundred dollars to get a few more jackets.

Who told you NBA teams don’t make $?  They make money hand over fist and the Lakers aren’t even the most profitable.  Only one team lost $ last year.

[Soda Popinski]

We weren't picking high enough for a chance to snub him anyway

[CountDorkula]

I hope if the Bills have the chance to draft him they pass, because who needs elite level players.

 

We need guys that are going to fall in line and go to church every weekend.

 

We need more guys like Nate Peterman on this team. 

 

In fact I hope McDermott run up to the podium and says with the X pick in the draft the buffalo bills select Ed.... just kidding we don't want that attitude."

 

That'll really show him.

31 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

College players that are surefire first rounders sit out all of the time. Nick Bosa left school earlier this year to prepare for the draft instead of rehabbing his injury to get back. Christian McCaffrey and Leonard Fournette did the exact same thing. That isn’t rare at all.

I dont get it,

 

people are fine with Leveon bell sittign out the year to "get his money"

but this guy aint in the NFL yet and needs to earn it. Puts his body on the line every week.

Projected first pick. If im him, i sit out too. No need for me to risk injury. The school wont do anything for him if he is injured.

[DCOrange]

28 minutes ago, mannc said:

Who told you NBA teams don’t make $?  They make money hand over fist and the Lakers aren’t even the most profitable.  Only one team lost $ last year.

 

The year before roughly half the NBA teams "lost money" simply because they purposefully spend money elsewhere so that they can claim they're losing money.

[Watkins90]

On 11/17/2018 at 6:03 AM, DCOrange said:

Seems like a bad look for both guys. Obviously Oliver wayyy overreacted here but it also seems like a dumb rule that only active players are allowed to stay warm lol.

He is inactive. He can wear an extra sweatshirt or his own jacket. He doesn't need the jacket that is provided to the players that are actually playing. Stupid on him for not wearing warmer clothing. 

[JohnC]

34 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Yes.

 

If an injured player says "Coach, I'm not ready to go on Saturday", no one will say he is ready to go.  But when he then makes sure everyone on the sidelines, in the stands, and on TV sees him frolicking on the filed before the game running around catching passes...it is clear what's going on. 

 

His "stupid coach" is no threat requiring "protection".  His coach is recognizing the disrespect this kid is showing the team by pretending he's not just passing the days until the draft while everyone else is working hard to finish the season and win games.  That's what set the coach off.  Did he have to rip the coat off?  Maybe not.  But he had to show that Oliver's charade is disrespectful.

 

He should be released from the team and he should have his scholarship terminated after this Fall term.    Then he can leave school early and work on his combine numbers.  Everyone wins.

We disagree on what the important issues are in this case. Both of us are belaboring the same points. 

 

The one point that you and many others are missing is that the no jacket rule for injured players is a pernicious rule that ostracizes injured players from the active players. Its purpose is to  create an environment where an injured player feels pressure to get back on the field when he doesn't feel ready. Mike Leach, the current coach at Washington State, was forced out of Texas Tech because of his ostracizing policies toward injured players. That is a reckless and dangerous approach.It certainly is not in the interest and well-being of the players he is supposed to be responsible for. 

 

I do agree with you that it would be wise for Oliver to leave the program and get away from this fraudulent tough guy coach for the sake of his future. Playing for a fool can be jeopardizing to one's health and career. 

[Dafan]

On 11/17/2018 at 7:03 AM, DCOrange said:

Seems like a bad look for both guys. Obviously Oliver wayyy overreacted here but it also seems like a dumb rule that only active players are allowed to stay warm lol.

Players not playing can wear their own coats. 

[JohnC]

49 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Maybe the player isn't so bright either to run, jump, and catch passes before his teammates go out and put themselves at risk.

 

Whether or not you happen to like it, the team has rules that this kid placed himself above.

 

If I had millions waiting for me would I want to play? I can't speculate in all honesty having never been faced with circumstances like these. That doesn't mean that this kid is not a pampered, spoiled twit.

Do you know from your perch what his actual physical status is? You are making an assumption that because he appears to be moving around well prior to the game that his injured knee (he did suffer a knee injury in the Navy game) is still not sore and should not be exposed to full game contact. 

 

As I said to WEO and others the no jacket rule is a pernicious rule ostracizing injured players from the active roster. That is the issue that I find most problematic in this story. The rule is to create an environment where the injured player might come back sooner than he should because he feels that he is not part of the team while in his injured status. That's a dangerous environment that is fraught with risk to the well-being of a side-lined player. That pressure to play. especially for a concussion injury, where the player even more than the medical staff knows exactly how he feels. That's the core issue that has me bothered the most here. 

 

This tough guy coach could have dealt with this issue in the privacy of the locker-room. Instead he made a public spectacle by jerking the jacket off of the player. He's the coach and he is the adult. He created the scene because of the way he handled his stupid rule. 

[Bill from NYC]

15 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Do you know from your perch what his actual physical status is? You are making an assumption that because he appears to be moving around well prior to the game that his injured knee (he did suffer a knee injury in the Navy game) is still not sore and should not be exposed to full game contact. 

 

No, from my perch I have no idea what his injury status is, and I would like to know where I indicated as such.

I think that I was totally clear. I cited the fact that he was running, jumping, and catching passes. Does this mean that he isn't injured? No. Was this (imo) ill advised? Yes, absolutely.

 

Again, there are rules. Judging from your few political posts I suspect that you might be more sympathetic to anarchy than I happen to be. Maybe if the kid was not putting on a pass catching clinic while out there injured, the coach who you seem to just hate might have overlooked the rule.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Bill from NYC

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

 

Whether it is a stupid rule or not - it is a rule.  The fact that he and several others wore the jackets, but when told they were not supposed to all of the other players removed them - that tells me the team did try to address it quietly.  

 

Everyone else seemed to be to be ok with it - when the star player did not listen to others - it fell to the head coach to handle it.  The fact that it had to go to the head coach level is part of the issue.  

 

I do not know how many of these special jackets they have - I do not know why they made up the specific rule, but it is a rule and their are reasons beyond what we can see why they make them.  Belichick does not allow big celebrations- he had to talk with Gronk about that and Gronk acknowledged being disciplined for his actions - that seems stupid for the NFL, but that is their rule.

 

We have all kinds of rules in society that have been in place because of reasons that are long outdated and it takes discussion to change these rules - both sides dig in if you have open conflict - even if it seems stupid.  The coach needed to do a better job, but Oliver needed to respect the rules when asked originally to remove it and if he wanted to wear it - have the discussion with the coach.

 

This smacks of other issues on the team with underlying disagreements between the coach and player that a small incident becomes this blown up.

There are more than enough jackets for the players. And if there aren't then go get them to adequately supply the team. There is a purpose for the no jacket rule for injured players. It separates them from the active players. That's what I find so offensive about the rule. It creates a climate where the injured players feels pressure to get on the field before one feels ready. It is a pernicious rule that can result in player coming back too soon and risking a more serious injury. Especially with a concussion injury where a player looks healthy to others but still doesn't feel right this exerted pressure to get back on the field is not a healthy and safe environment for the players. 

1 minute ago, Bill from NYC said:

No, from my perch I have no idea what his injury status is, and I would like to know where I indicated as such.

I think that I was totally clear. I cited the fact that he was running, jumping, and catching passes. Does this men that he isn't injured? No. Was this (imo) ill advised? Yes, absolutely.

 

Again, there are rules. Judging from your few political posts I suspect that you might be more sympathetic to anarchy than I happen to be. Maybe if the kid was not putting on a pass catching clinic while out there injured, the coach who you seem to just hate might have overlooked the rule.

My political posts have nothing to do with my response. That response makes no sense and has no relevancy to the topic. Saying I am being sympathetic to anarchy is simply a stupid reactionary response. 

[Bill from NYC]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

There are more than enough jackets for the players. And if there aren't then go get them to adequately supply the team. There is a purpose for the no jacket rule for injured players. It separates them from the active players. That's what I find so offensive about the rule. It creates a climate where the injured players feels pressure to get on the field before one feels ready. It is a pernicious rule that can result in player coming back too soon and risking a more serious injury. Especially with a concussion injury where a player looks healthy to others but still doesn't feel right this exerted pressure to get back on the field is not a healthy and safe environment for the players. 

We get it; you don't like the rule. That said, the rule exists.

 

Do you live your life judging every rule and/or law, and then deciding whether or not you will break it? That is up to you. I don't like the NYS Tax system but if I cheat or break the rules, I would certainly suffer consequences. So, the future multi-millionaire couldn't wear a jacket? C'mon, lets all hit the crying rooms! You have any mood coloring books?

[Mr. WEO]

39 minutes ago, JohnC said:

We disagree on what the important issues are in this case. Both of us are belaboring the same points. 

 

The one point that you and many others are missing is that the no jacket rule for injured players is a pernicious rule that ostracizes injured players from the active players. Its purpose is to  create an environment where an injured player feels pressure to get back on the field when he doesn't feel ready. Mike Leach, the current coach at Washington State, was forced out of Texas Tech because of his ostracizing policies toward injured players. That is a reckless and dangerous approach.It certainly is not in the interest and well-being of the players he is supposed to be responsible for. 

 

I do agree with you that it would be wise for Oliver to leave the program and get away from this fraudulent tough guy coach for the sake of his future. Playing for a fool can be jeopardizing to one's health and career. 

 

 

You can repeat this as many times as you want, but it still isn't true.  Clearly, Oliver, as an injured player, feels anything but "ostracized".. Quite the opposite--he feels he can do whatever he wants.

 

Look, this is simple--these are big sideline coats fitting over a padded player to keep him warm the sideline.  You know this.  It's a piece of equipment.  Oliver can stay warm by coating himself in as many  layers of team logo'd gear that he wants in order to stay warm.  He put that coat on for one reason---and it's the same reason he decided to show off how fit he was on game day by playing around on the field.  It was to demonstrate that "I'm a top 2 draft pick so F all y'all".

 

Your portrayal of him as some "ostracized" injured lamb being bullied by his HC, from whom he needs "protection".....is really laughable.

[JohnC]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

You can repeat this as many times as you want, but it still isn't true.  Clearly, Oliver, as an injured player, feels anything but "ostracized".. Quite the opposite--he feels he can do whatever he wants.

 

Look, this is simple--these are big sideline coats fitting over a padded player to keep him warm the sideline.  You know this.  It's a piece of equipment.  Oliver can stay warm by coating himself in as many  layers of team logo'd gear that he wants in order to stay warm.  He put that coat on for one reason---and it's the same reason he decided to show off how fit he was on game day by playing around on the field.  It was to demonstrate that "I'm a top 2 draft pick so F all y'all".

 

Your portrayal of him as some "ostracized" injured lamb being bullied by his HC, from whom he needs "protection".....is really laughable.

When I was discussing the rule I was discussing it beyond the individual player and the purpose behind it. Apparently you didn't understand the point that I was making. 

[CountDorkula]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

You can repeat this as many times as you want, but it still isn't true.  Clearly, Oliver, as an injured player, feels anything but "ostracized".. Quite the opposite--he feels he can do whatever he wants.

 

Look, this is simple--these are big sideline coats fitting over a padded player to keep him warm the sideline.  You know this.  It's a piece of equipment.  Oliver can stay warm by coating himself in as many  layers of team logo'd gear that he wants in order to stay warm.  He put that coat on for one reason---and it's the same reason he decided to show off how fit he was on game day by playing around on the field.  It was to demonstrate that "I'm a top 2 draft pick so F all y'all".

 

Your portrayal of him as some "ostracized" injured lamb being bullied by his HC, from whom he needs "protection".....is really laughable.

 

Star players get preferential treatment. It has always been that way, it will always be that way.

 

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, CountDorkula said:

 

Star players get preferential treatment. It has always been that way, it will always be that way.

 

 

that's not what this is about though.

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

When I was discussing the rule I was discussing it beyond the individual player and the purpose behind it. Apparently you didn't understand the point that I was making. 

 

 

I understood what you were saying.  Reserving game day equipment for players playing on game day isn't ostracizing. 

[CountDorkula]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

that's not what this is about though.

It really is. Oliver has been able to do whatever he want's because he is the teams best player and everybody knows is so he gets more slack than others.

If a 3rd string CB didn't give up his jacket, I guarantee you this story doesn't even exist.

Oliver is the #1 pick in next years draft. He is followed closely. He has one bad moment and people act like he is the worst person ever.

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, CountDorkula said:

It really is. Oliver has been able to do whatever he want's because he is the teams best player and everybody knows is so he gets more slack than others.

If a 3rd string CB didn't give up his jacket, I guarantee you this story doesn't even exist.

Oliver is the #1 pick in next years draft. He is followed closely. He has one bad moment and people act like he is the worst person ever.

 

 

 

He was showing up his coach (and team) before the game and then when he put on the coat, when he knew the rule was not to.  The coach took exception to that.  That's all.

[CountDorkula]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

He was showing up his coach (and team) before the game and then when he put on the coat, when he knew the rule was not to.  The coach took exception to that.  That's all.

Or he was just out there having a good time knowing his college days are over.

 

I in fact hope the Bills draft him now just to watch this board melt over something as stupid as this.

[mannc]

1 minute ago, CountDorkula said:

Or he was just out there having a good time knowing his college days are over.

 

I in fact hope the Bills draft him now just to watch this board melt over something as stupid as this.

For me, the real issue is that Oliver has not played that well this year, against mediocre competition.  He just looks like an over-hyped prospect.  I would not spend a top-ten pick on him, much less a top-two.

[Bill from NYC]

2 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

Or he was just out there having a good time knowing his college days are over.

 

I in fact hope the Bills draft him now just to watch this board melt over something as stupid as this.

You want this more than blockers and receivers? I don't believe you.