MNF: The NFL Marquee Matchup for Week 11 - KC (9-1) vs. LAR (9-1) at 8:15 PM ET on ESPN

[PatsFanNH]

Just now, BringBackOrton said:

And Brady was infinitely more valuable than Moss, demonstrated by what Brady did without Moss and what Moss did without Brady.

 

Imagine saying you'd take Moss over Brady in a draft.  You're such a bad troll dude.

Brady did it BEFORE Moss. We don’t know what Mahommes will do if/when he doesn’t have Hill.  IMO Mahommes is an unknown, while Hill had similar success with a QB who didn’t have the arm make the deep throws.

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, PatsFanNH said:

Brady did it BEFORE Moss. We don’t know what Mahommes will do if/when he doesn’t have Hill.  IMO Mahommes is an unknown, while Hill had similar success with a QB who didn’t have the arm make the deep throws.

Okay, let me put it this way.  If you think Hill has more hypothetical trade value than Mahomes today, you're the only person who thinks that.  In the world.  Tyreek Hill doesn't think that.  Maybe his mother does, but probably not.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[mannc]

13 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Because points matter in football.   You can pretend that 26 TD's/5 INT's is equal to 52 TD's and 10 INT's, but it ain't.

 

The top third of the league usually passes for 4000+ yards every year, btw.

You're really getting into clown territory now.  I never, ever said Alex Smith was as good as Mahomes, or that he put up better numbers than Mahomes.  Please pay attention.

 

Alex Smith is a career mediocrity, a dinker and dunker, a guy whose numbers before last year bore an eerie similarity to those of Tyrod Taylor.  And yet his numbers last year in KC were as good or better than Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers and Drew Brees.  And he only played in 15 regular season games.  

[Haze_21]

5 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

You did read all his post right? He said with the weapons around him any good Young QB would excel.  The key for KC is Hill. If Hill gets hurt their season is over, just like if Gurley gets hurt the Rams are toast.  

 

While I agree hill is opening up the offense in a way that is unquantifiable mahomes would still be great without him. I dont think their  season is over without hill, but he is their best player outside of mahomes and it would be a huge blow. I'm not sure i take any wr in the league over him.

[BringBackOrton]

20 minutes ago, mannc said:

You're really getting into clown territory now.  I never, ever said Alex Smith was as good as Mahomes, or that he put up better numbers than Mahomes.  Please pay attention.

 

Alex Smith is a career mediocrity, a dinker and dunker, a guy whose numbers before last year bore an eerie similarity to those of Tyrod Taylor.  And yet his numbers last year in KC were as good or better than Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers and Drew Brees.  And he only played in 15 regular season games.  

Tell me where I said you did.  Take your own advice bro.

 

Alex Smith is not "eeriely similar" to Tyrod Taylor.  That's a gross mischaracterization of a fine QB whose jock is better than Taylor.  

 

2017 was an anomalous year in terms of passing.  I just demonstrated that above.

 

Yes, Alex Smith had one of the best years of his career in 2017.  However, it was merely above average based on the rest of the league.  Bottom line, Alex Smith's best year was worse than:

 

Matt Ryan (2012, 2016)

Aaron Rodgers (2009, 2011, 2014, 2016)

Phillip Rivers (2006, 2008, 2011)

Cam Newton (2015)

Drew Brees (2004, 2008, 2011, 2013)

Tom Brady (2007, 2010,  2011, 2012, 2017)

Russell Wilson (2014, 2015)

 

And I promise you, when Mahomes finishes this year, he will have a better year than half of that list of individual seasons, if not more.  

 

What Alex Smith did was have a good year.  Mahomes is cruising past HoF QB's best seasons.  We will talk about Mahomes 2018 season like we do Brady in 2007 or Peyton in 2013.

Edited November 20, 2018 by BringBackOrton

[mannc]

8 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Tell me where I said you did.  Take your own advice bro.

 

Alex Smith is not "eeriely similar" to Tyrod Taylor.  That's a gross mischaracterization of a fine QB whose jock is better than Taylor.  

 

2017 was an anomalous year in terms of passing.  I just demonstrated that above.

 

Yes, Alex Smith had one of the best years of his career in 2017.  However, it was merely above average based on the rest of the league.  Bottom line, Alex Smith's best year was worse than:

 

Matt Ryan (2012, 2016)

Aaron Rodgers (2009, 2011, 2014, 2016)

Phillip Rivers (2006, 2008, 2011)

Cam Newton (2015)

Drew Brees (2004, 2008, 2011, 2013)

Tom Brady (2007, 2010,  2011, 2012, 2017)

Russell Wilson (2014, 2015)

 

And I promise you, when Mahomes finishes this year, he will have a better year than half of that list of individual seasons, if not more.  

 

What Alex Smith did was have a good year.  Mahomes is cruising past HoF QB's best seasons.  We will talk about Mahomes 2018 season like we do Brady in 2007 or Peyton in 2013.

Look, I think we are largely in agreement, but for some reason, you decided to add snarky comments to the discussion and decided I was trying to argue that Smith is as good as Mahomes.

 

I believe Mahomes is a really good QB.  In fact, if there was a draft tomorrow and every player in the league was eligible for it, I have no doubt that Mahomes would be the first player picked.  However, I think his astronomical numbers are aided significantly by the system he plays in, as well as the fact that the Chiefs have an excellent o-line, and arguably the best TE, WR and RB in the league.  I don't think I've seen a team with weapons like this since the '99 Rams, with Kurt Warner, etc.  The fact that Alex Smith, the original Captain Checkdown, had by far the best year of his career last year in this offense provides support for this theory. 

 

Even though he threw for six TDs and tons of yards last night, Mahomes showed some holes in his game.  A lot of the big yardage plays he makes are dropoffs to Hunt and Hill or throws to wide open guys, like Hill on the 74-yard bomb.  (Hill almost literally broke the DB's ankle on that play.)  Mahomes made a lot of mistakes that probably cost his team the game and made me think that KC is unlikely to get past NE or Pittsburgh in January, at least this year.      

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[BringBackOrton]

14 minutes ago, mannc said:

Look, I think we are largely in agreement, but for some reason, you decided to add snarky comments to the discussion and decided I was trying to argue that Smith is as good as Mahomes.

 

I believe Mahomes is a really good QB.  In fact, if there was a draft tomorrow and every player in the league was eligible for it, I have no doubt that Mahomes would be the first player picked.  However, I think his astronomical numbers are aided significantly by the system he plays in, as well as the fact that the Chiefs have an excellent o-line, and arguably the best TE, WR and RB in the league.  I don't think I've seen a team with weapons like this since the '99 Rams, with Kurt Warner, etc.  The fact that Alex Smith, the original Captain Checkdown, had by far the best year of his career last year in this offense provides support for this theory. 

 

Even though he threw for six TDs and tons of yards last night, Mahomes showed some holes in his game.  A lot of the big yardage plays he makes are dropoffs to Hunt and Hill or throws to wide open guys, like Hill on the 74-yard bomb.  (Hill almost literally broke the DB's ankle on that play.)  Mahomes made a lot of mistakes that probably cost his team the game and made me think that KC is unlikely to get past NE or Pittsburgh in January, at least this year.      

I don’t deny the Chiefs are loaded with talent. I just think that Mahomes is head and shoulders better than Alex Smith and we’re seeing that translate to the field. And Alex Smith is a good QB. Being head and shoulders above an established franchise/fringe franchise guy in your first season as a starter is REMARKABLE.

 

I know it’s said a lot “put him in the HoF now!!” by his detractors. And I know careers can be up and down, there’s flashes in the pan etc.

 

But. If you had to put money on what QB under 30 in the NFL today would make the HoF, Vegas wouldn’t give you favorable odds on Mahomes. He’d be the leader in the clubhouse EASY.

 

That’s remarkable for a kid after 12 starts. REMARKABLE.

[C.Biscuit97]

I’m calling it now: Bills-Jags will be a much more exciting game than last night!

31 minutes ago, mannc said:

Look, I think we are largely in agreement, but for some reason, you decided to add snarky comments to the discussion and decided I was trying to argue that Smith is as good as Mahomes.

 

I believe Mahomes is a really good QB.  In fact, if there was a draft tomorrow and every player in the league was eligible for it, I have no doubt that Mahomes would be the first player picked.  However, I think his astronomical numbers are aided significantly by the system he plays in, as well as the fact that the Chiefs have an excellent o-line, and arguably the best TE, WR and RB in the league.  I don't think I've seen a team with weapons like this since the '99 Rams, with Kurt Warner, etc.  The fact that Alex Smith, the original Captain Checkdown, had by far the best year of his career last year in this offense provides support for this theory. 

 

Even though he threw for six TDs and tons of yards last night, Mahomes showed some holes in his game.  A lot of the big yardage plays he makes are dropoffs to Hunt and Hill or throws to wide open guys, like Hill on the 74-yard bomb.  (Hill almost literally broke the DB's ankle on that play.)  Mahomes made a lot of mistakes that probably cost his team the game and made me think that KC is unlikely to get past NE or Pittsburgh in January, at least this year.      

Smith had 26 tds in 16 games.  Mahomes has 37 so far in his 1st year as a nfl starter.

 

if you try to say anything other than Mahomes is amazing, you’re just wrong.  He is a special talent on a good team.  Imagine if a Bills had half of his numbers?  We would be ready to put him on the Wall.

[MAJBobby]

Hell of a game. Exciting and exactly what the NFL Wants. 

 

That was Modern Football. 

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Hell of a game. Exciting and exactly what the NFL Wants. 

 

That was Modern Football. 

Disagree. I’m a big fan of field goals and punts.  Last night’s game was yuck with all their touchdowns and big plays. Gross.

[PatsFanNH]

2 hours ago, Haze_21 said:

 

While I agree hill is opening up the offense in a way that is unquantifiable mahomes would still be great without him. I dont think their  season is over without hill, but he is their best player outside of mahomes and it would be a huge blow. I'm not sure i take any wr in the league over him.

I think Mahomes would be good without Hill, I am not sure about great.. we won’t know that till he has play some games without him.  

[dollars 2 donuts]

 

 

Posting...because it was a fan-f***ing-tastic game that still deserves kudos a day later.

 

...so damn good.  So much fun.

[billsfan89]

This game delivered big time, a true masterpiece of football. Don't let the high score fool you as there was 3 defensive TD's and several turnovers forced by the defense so while by any metric this game was a high scoring affair this game had great input from both defenses. Its also great to see a new generation of young QB's. Goff and Mahomes are great, Wentz and Watson could be big time too if they recover from their injuries, even Trubisky a player most wrote off as a bust is looking like a viable QB. That's potentially 5 really good young QB's to come into the league in back to back seasons. 

 

Marioata and Winston aren't looking so hot but either one could still turn it around. Then you have this current rookie class that could yield multiple good QB's. Even guys like Luck and Cam Newton are still in their prime and continuing to play at a high level. Toss in Matty Ice and Matthew Stafford who are still likely to have 5-6 good years left and you are looking at the NFL having pretty good QB play for the next decade. That's nothing to say of the vet QB's that are still playing at a high level like Big Ben, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, and Rivers all of whom could play 2-4 more seasons at a high levle. 

 

I know the rules of the NFL are making it easier to play QB and score more in general but it felt like for years that the NFL was just not having many good QB's entering into the draft. You would be lucky to get 1 Matty Ice trickle in now and again. Now in a lot of drafts it seems like you are seeing good QB's come in much more consistently. 

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