ExiledInIllinois Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 21 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: That pompous !@#$ needs to blame himself. It's overpopulation and Californians being too stupid to realize the importance of controlled Burns. Since California wont do it may choose doing it itself. I have little empathy for those affected by this by choosing to live in a place so backwards that it will not protect its citizens en masse to protect the feelings of those too stupid to realize how naturer works Harsh... But true. They need to start bringing some economic value to that forest floor if they want all those people living there. It's the only way to control the "fuel load." I said... IF... IF they want the population living around it the forest. IF the population is low... Then it can "burn baby burn." What's going to be the incentive to do things "right?" You can't just blame global warming. Global warming is happening, deal with it. Sure get me to change in Illinois... I don't live in a freaking fire zone and build wooden structures! I am a good socialist, but not that devout. Bring an economic incentive to manage that fuel load every 30-50 years... In rotation, just like a crop. Yet, they blame the boogeyman Climate Change (sure climate change IS happening no doubt) because they want to live in perpetual paradise and somebody else foot the bill. /smh Sam Kinison nailed it with the desert bit. Except, they encroach on a fire zone without taking the load off (population vs. fuel): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) 44 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Harsh... But true. They need to start bringing some economic value to that forest floor if they want all those people living there. It's the only way to control the "fuel load." I said... IF... IF they want the population living around it the forest. IF the population is low... Then it can "burn baby burn." What's going to be the incentive to do things "right?" You can't just blame global warming. Global warming is happening, deal with it. Sure get me to change in Illinois... I don't live in a freaking fire zone and build wooden structures! I am a good socialist, but not that devout. Bring an economic incentive to manage that fuel load every 30-50 years... In rotation, just like a crop. Yet, they blame the boogeyman Climate Change (sure climate change IS happening no doubt) because they want to live in perpetual paradise and somebody else foot the bill. /smh Sam Kinison nailed it with the desert bit. Except, they encroach on a fire zone without taking the load off (population vs. fuel): There doesn't need to be an economic incentive. Harvesting wood would pulp and all of that is its own incentive. Not only that but the US has policy to dictate forestry management. There are a couple Federal forests in North Carolina and they do many controlled Burns. North Carolina has very similar topography to California and we get quite a bit of wildfires. But we manage our forests a hell of a lot better, and we don't have butthurts trying to interfere with nature at every turn Edited November 13, 2018 by Boyst62 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) Harvest the wood pulp? ?. Again guys sure the tragedy in Paradise was forest but the vast majority of our destructive fires here start and spread through low lying scrub. We do what we can to mitigate the damage by requiring people to clear brush from around their homes but when the Santa Ana’s blow little good it does. And yes you are all right when you say overpopulation is the problem. That, by the way, is the cause of a lot of problems in the world. Edited November 13, 2018 by Chef Jim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: Harvest the wood pulp? ?. Again guys sure the tragedy in Paradise was forest but the vast majority of our destructive fires here start and spread through low lying scrub. We do what we can to mitigate the damage by requiring people to clear brush from around their homes but when the Santa Ana’s blow little good it does. And yes you are all right when you say overpopulation is the problem. That, by the way, is the cause of a lot of problems in the world. Did you read the Forbes article I posted above. The regulations are oppressive. "...The landscape filled in with trees, but the trees were harvested every 30 to 50 years. In the 1990s, however, that cycle began to be disrupted with increasingly burdensome regulations. The timber harvest cycle slowed, and, in some areas, stopped completely, especially on the almost 60% of California forest land owned by thefederal government. Federal lands have not been managed for decades..." Sure... Get rid of the "kindling" too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, Chef Jim said: And yes you are all right when you say overpopulation is the problem. That, by the way, is the cause of a lot of problems in the world. Im voting Thanos for President 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 16 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Wouldn't they clear the underbrush/growth away? Like we use to manage the forests: https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2018/07/30/californias-devastating-fires-are-man-caused-but-not-in-the-way-they-tell-us/#305da5d870af "As the Gold Rush remade modern California, timber was harvested and replanted. Fires were suppressed because they threatened homes as well as burned up a valuable resource. The landscape filled in with trees, but the trees were harvested every 30 to 50 years. In the 1990s, however, that cycle began to be disrupted with increasingly burdensome regulations. The timber harvest cycle slowed, and, in some areas, stopped completely, especially on the almost 60% of California forest land owned by the federal government. Federal lands have not been managed for decades, threatening adjacent private forests, while federal funds designated for forest maintenance have been “borrowed” for fire suppression expenses. The policies frequently reduce the economic value of the forest to zero. And, with no intrinsic worth remaining, interest in maintaining the forest declined, and with it, resources to reduce the fuel load." Not a word about Global Warming? Has Gov Brown seen this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElectricCompany Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Boyst62 said: North Carolina has very similar topography to California Try again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said: Try again. Try again how? It is a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
707BillsFan Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 On 11/10/2018 at 1:03 PM, KD in CA said: Yep....smokey sky today. No hiking. Cleared up a bit here in NorCal yesterday, I was able to get out for a hike. Not going to stop me today either...unlike the schools, which are closed for the second day in a row (Friday and today). Sure the air is smoky, but keep the kids inside if you're worried about air quality...or give them a mask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: Try again how? It is a fact. Carolina isn’t dry and isn’t surrounded by mountains. Let’s see California has numerous mountains that over 14,000’ feet in elevation. Carolina has none. Edited November 13, 2018 by Helpmenow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, Helpmenow said: Carolina isn’t dry and isn’t surrounded by mountains. Let’s see California has numerous mountains that over 14,000’ feet in elevation. Carolina has none. Other than that Carolina is EXACTLY like California. I have a feeling Boyst has never visited California. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) That is a given I bet, by the way I am an earth scientist with over thirty years of experience. Also where is the Central Valley in Carolina. Edited November 13, 2018 by Helpmenow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Marv's Neighbor said: Not a word about Global Warming? Has Gov Brown seen this? Not that Global Warming ain't happening. I simply don't give a *****. The whole world ain't going to change because of poor California or poor whoever (including Me!). Poor California can help itself, limit the development, manage the forest fuel... Instead blaming the whole earth. The last great migration was the Dust Bowl years. People walked to California. They may have to walk somewhere else now or solve the human problems with the land and the weather like we did with respect to the Dust Bowl Era. Dry land farming was dialed in. We can manage the forests better, learn from past. Adapt and overcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElectricCompany Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Boyst62 said: Try again how? It is a fact. Spoken like someone who has never visited CA, or even looked at a map of it. CA cannot be described in generic terms. It covers nearly every biome in existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 57 minutes ago, Helpmenow said: Carolina isn’t dry and isn’t surrounded by mountains. Let’s see California has numerous mountains that over 14,000’ feet in elevation. Carolina has none. Carolina may not have the height of mountains, sure. It does have the highest point east of the Mississippi, though. The topography is what I said; the climate is not. The climate doesn't have everything to do with it, nature does. Nature clenses with fire itself like a lemon juice tumeric blowout clense. The first in NC impact the densely packed areas greatly due to overpopulation. In the less dense areas controlled Burns are frequent and very organized; in populated areas they're not so frequent. 14 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said: Spoken like someone who has never visited CA, or even looked at a map of it. CA cannot be described in generic terms. It covers nearly every biome in existence. I've been to CA... And I spoke of topography, not of much else. Vastly covered woodlands in mountainous regions that are not accessible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElectricCompany Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 23 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: I've been to CA... And I spoke of topography, not of much else. Vastly covered woodlands in mountainous regions that are not accessible. LOL - yeah, still not even close. Just keep on digging bud. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 1 minute ago, TheElectricCompany said: LOL - yeah, still not even close. Just keep on digging bud. If I did Puerto Rico might tip over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv's Neighbor Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 1 hour ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Not that Global Warming ain't happening. I simply don't give a *****. The whole world ain't going to change because of poor California or poor whoever (including Me!). Poor California can help itself, limit the development, manage the forest fuel... Instead blaming the whole earth. The last great migration was the Dust Bowl years. People walked to California. They may have to walk somewhere else now or solve the human problems with the land and the weather like we did with respect to the Dust Bowl Era. Dry land farming was dialed in. We can manage the forests better, learn from past. Adapt and overcome. Seems that California has Always been a popular walking destination. 27 minutes ago, Boyst62 said: If I did Puerto Rico might tip over. Is that you, Congressman Hank Johnson? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 2 hours ago, 707BillsFan said: Cleared up a bit here in NorCal yesterday, I was able to get out for a hike. Not going to stop me today either...unlike the schools, which are closed for the second day in a row (Friday and today). Sure the air is smoky, but keep the kids inside if you're worried about air quality...or give them a mask. Oh yeah, kids have had inside recess, lunch, etc since Thursday. They're all going stir crazy. It doesn't smell smoky anymore but you can tell the air is dirty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fires Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Boyst62 said: Carolina may not have the height of mountains, sure. It does have the highest point east of the Mississippi, though. I'm between Franklin and Highlands and my house is at 3500'. There's several 5-6000 ft mountains around. Wish I could find the video of the Pigeon Forge fire, it looked very similar to the one posted of people drIving through the fire. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 1 hour ago, TheElectricCompany said: LOL - yeah, still not even close. Just keep on digging bud. He is struggling mighty here. Anytime you wanna talk earth science be my guest. California and Carolina comparison.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, Helpmenow said: He is struggling mighty here. Anytime you wanna talk earth science be my guest. California and Carolina comparison.lol Um, try an actual refute instead of #feels. 10 minutes ago, Fires said: I'm between Franklin and Highlands and my house is at 3500'. There's several 5-6000 ft mountains around. Wish I could find the video of the Pigeon Forge fire, it looked very similar to the one posted of people drIving through the fire. Where are ya? 27 minutes ago, KD in CA said: Oh yeah, kids have had inside recess, lunch, etc since Thursday. They're all going stir crazy. It doesn't smell smoky anymore but you can tell the air is dirty. Is the caravan that close now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, Helpmenow said: He is struggling mighty here. Anytime you wanna talk earth science be my guest. California and Carolina comparison.lol They are mismanaging the forests. The environmental regulations are oppressive in the State. The population out of hand... People living deep and deeper in the danger zone. Just like hurricanes and people seeking the sea, warm weather. Just like people living in flood plains... Etc... Funny thing is, the Feds that manage 60%. The proactive $$$ is being spent being reactive. If people want to live in these places, it's time THEY step off the environmental throttle and meet half way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Boyst62 said: There doesn't need to be an economic incentive. Harvesting wood would pulp and all of that is its own incentive. Not only that but the US has policy to dictate forestry management. There are a couple Federal forests in North Carolina and they do many controlled Burns. North Carolina has very similar topography to California and we get quite a bit of wildfires. But we manage our forests a hell of a lot better, and we don't have butthurts trying to interfere with nature at every turn Just a wild guess but I imagine North Carolina gets a hell of a lot more rain the California does. Edited November 13, 2018 by Gordio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Gordio said: Just a wild guess but I imagine North Carolina gets a hell of a lot more rain the California does. I'm mentioning topography. Not climate. Just fyi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 15 hours ago, Chef Jim said: And when one starts the embers blow for miles and start fires when no one expects so often the warnings come too late. This is something that surprised and scared the hell out of me when we were evacuated a few years ago for fires. The wind would pull up embers, drop them on a house two miles away and you'd have a new hotspot in a matter of moments. We packed up what we could, I sent my wife and son and pets to a hotel away from the fires, and I stayed behind just to make sure we cleared as much as we could. When I pulled out of our cul de sac and up to the main road, the hill across the street was a giant fireball. I was convinced we were going to lose our house. Still not sure how we didn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fires Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Boyst62 said: Um, try an actual refute instead of #feels. Where are ya? Is the caravan that close now? I'm Southwest of Asheville NC. Smoky Mtns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Fires said: I'm Southwest of Asheville NC. Smoky Mtns. Maggie Valley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fires Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, LABillzFan said: This is something that surprised and scared the hell out of me when we were evacuated a few years ago for fires. The wind would pull up embers, drop them on a house two miles away and you'd have a new hotspot in a matter of moments. We packed up what we could, I sent my wife and son and pets to a hotel away from the fires, and I stayed behind just to make sure we cleared as much as we could. When I pulled out of our cul de sac and up to the main road, the hill across the street was a giant fireball. I was convinced we were going to lose our house. Still not sure how we didn't. When I used to work at the FD in Florida that happened to us several times. Neighboring county alms had one under control and strong winds hit. Next thing you know there's 100 homes on fire. 3 minutes ago, LABillzFan said: Maggie Valley? That's just north of me. I'm off 64 near Cullasaja Gorge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 11 minutes ago, Fires said: When I used to work at the FD in Florida that happened to us several times. Neighboring county alms had one under control and strong winds hit. Next thing you know there's 100 homes on fire. That's just north of me. I'm off 64 near Cullasaja Gorge. I'm on 64, it's a mile away. I'm in Lexington. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 2 hours ago, KD in CA said: Oh yeah, kids have had inside recess, lunch, etc since Thursday. They're all going stir crazy. It doesn't smell smoky anymore but you can tell the air is dirty. Babies... Try hanging out in Lackawanna when Beth was going full tilt. Okay, maybe Tuesdays were a good day to hang wash out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Boyst62 said: I'm mentioning topography. Not climate. Just fyi Central Valley is again similar to Carolinas what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Helpmenow said: Central Valley is again similar to Carolinas what? It's the Piedmont inverted. Just like Toronto is similar to San Francisco but Toronto is turned inside out. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 And Death Valley is similar to the piedmont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
707BillsFan Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 3 hours ago, KD in CA said: Oh yeah, kids have had inside recess, lunch, etc since Thursday. They're all going stir crazy. It doesn't smell smoky anymore but you can tell the air is dirty. My kids are older, but parents w/ youngsters are going crazy not being able to send their kids to school here. We're 150 miles away from the Camp Fire, but the smoke is funneling down to our area. Air is thick w/ smoke but it doesn't smell as bad. At some point, they're going to have to go back. Air quality doesn't appear to be any better the rest of the week. No wind (which is good right now), but it doesn't help the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Fires said: When I used to work at the FD in Florida that happened to us several times. Neighboring county alms had one under control and strong winds hit. Next thing you know there's 100 homes on fire. That's just north of me. I'm off 64 near Cullasaja Gorge. I spent three years in McDowell County, or as they say in North Carolina, MACDowell County. Interesting place for an Italian from NY to start his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Helpmenow said: And Death Valley is similar to the piedmont. Popped inside. And not filled with water. Anyway... Nobody is addressing why they aren't clearing growth every 30-50 years. If they rotated around, it's constant maintenance of new growth and clearing old growth. I would rather spend the $$$$ that way then letting the forests go to pot and spend copious amounts on fire suppression. The fires aren't helping global warming! Vicious circle. Why in last 30 years are we not clearing forests? It's either that or stop the people from moving there! With less people, let it go native and burn. The many simply can't live there and let it go native. Too much risk. Why should other's in far away places bear the burden for the selfishness. Let it burn and nobody move back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElectricCompany Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Why in last 30 years are we not clearing forests? This comes up all the time, and it's not going to happen. First, think about the scale. It's millions of acres annually that would need to be mitigated, and that's often in rough country. Second, think about the cost. You want to fund this public money? Good luck. You think the timber companies are chomping at the bit to take out scrub brush, pine and aspen from rough country, and if they were, would we let them? Third, weather is simply too big of a variable outside of our control. The Santa Ana winds in CA are a perfect example. You can prepare all you'd like, but when someone throws a spark into a bone dry area with single digit humidity and 40 mph winds, it's going to burn. Edited November 13, 2018 by TheElectricCompany 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fires Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, LABillzFan said: I spent three years in McDowell County, or as they say in North Carolina, MACDowell County. Interesting place for an Italian from NY to start his career. LOL... my son lives in Lenoir via New Jersey. He has an Italian last name (not the same as mine). I'm sure he can relate. BTW, I laugh every time I see Fabios commercials on TV and remember your story . Edited November 13, 2018 by Fires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 14 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said: This comes up all the time, and it's not going to happen. First, think about the scale. It's millions of acres annually that would need to be mitigated, and that's often in rough country. Second, think about the cost. You want to fund this public money? Good luck. You think the timber companies are chomping at the bit to take out scrub brush, pine and aspen from rough country, and if they were, would we let them? Third, weather is simply too big of a variable outside of our control. The Santa Ana winds in CA are a perfect example. You can prepare all you'd like, but when someone throws a spark into a bone dry area with single digit humidity and 40 mph winds, it's going to burn. Then live with fire or move. It's nobody else's problem. People don't belong there. Throttle development back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts