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John from Riverside

At the end of the day....this is our team

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On 9/2/2018 at 7:11 PM, Max Fischer said:

Technically, it's the Pegula's team.

 

As for the roster, this is how I see a comparison to last year's team:

 

QB: Honestly believe Peterman or Allen are more apt to win games than Tyrod (and first-year Peterman).  Of course, the major difference is . . .

 

OL:  Worse than last year.  No one on the squad is as good as Incognito, Groy could be a push on Wood, all others are literally the same (and not necessarily improving).  Biggest potential disaster. 

 

WR:  On paper, I think this is a slight upgrade over last year. 

 

RB:  Slightly better than last year. Though if Shady goes down . . .

 

TE:  I believe they'll be better than last year overall.  More versatility.  

 

Depth:  Possibly a push but hard to tell. 

 

Coordinator:  Even on Daboll's worst day I think he's better than Rick Dennison.  Even geniuses can't make all bad players look good, but I think overall, Daboll will make a "D" offense into a "C- or C" offense, which could be "good enough" and likely better than last year. No real depth could also wipe out the season. 

 

 

DL - I'd like to say significantly better than last year but I'll simply say "improved" on paper. 

 

LB - Again, would like to say "improved" but I'll call this a push until Edwards gets better and Milano shows improvement. 

 

DB - All the same as last year, but curious if the new corners are better than Gaines and company. 

 

Depth: Slightly better but likely a push until proven otherwise. 

 

Coordinator: Same. Curious to see if a true game plan will restore confidence that getting kicked around in preseason meant nothing.  

 

Much tougher schedule, growing pains at QB, potential OL implosion so I'll go with 6-10.  Bad start and gets better as season goes on. 

 

I think this is generous. 

 

QB - Downgrade until proven otherwise. Tyrod has the lowest interception rate in the history of the league. Peterman has 6 Ints in less than 2 full games. 

 

RB - Maybe a slight improvement. McCoy is another year older and Ivory is a bit better than Tolbert? 

 

OL - Worse. We still don't know if Dawkins is really = Glenn. Ducasse is a disaster, we have two years ago Groy filled in for Wood, Miller is question mark in pass protection, and as bad as Mills has been, the Bills haven't found a replacement in 3 years. 

 

TE - Same. Similar to McCoy at RB. You have 29/30 year old holdover Clay. Even if his backups are better than O'Leary, how many catches do we really expect our backup TE to make a game? 1-2?

 

WR - Same. Benjamin is okay, but not a true #1, what is Zay Jones at this point? Then you're down to journeyman (Kerley, Holmes) and rookies. You don't have Deonte Thompson anymore.

 

DL - Same. Trent Murphy has been hurt nearly all of Training Camp, and has one nice NFL season before injury. Star L is a run stuffer, Kyle Williams is nearing the end of the line, and Hughes has been single digit sacks for 3 straight years. I do like the Harrison Phillips pick. Lawson is nothing more than a rotational player. But this preseason looked like this line could not generate any pressure. 

 

LB - Same, but realistically probably worse. Tremaine Edmunds is going to come in and be better than Preston Brown? Lorenzo Alexander is the same. Matt Milano is not a difference maker. 

 

CB - Same maybe, but likely a bit worse. White was excellent last season. But this year we don't have E.J. Gaines. We have 200 year old Vontae Davis and Phillip Gaines. 

 

S - Same. Hyde n' Poyer

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

 

I think this is generous. 

 

QB - Downgrade until proven otherwise. Tyrod has the lowest interception rate in the history of the league. Peterman has 6 Ints in less than 2 full games. 

 

RB - Maybe a slight improvement. McCoy is another year older and Ivory is a bit better than Tolbert? 

 

OL - Worse. We still don't know if Dawkins is really = Glenn. Ducasse is a disaster, we have two years ago Groy filled in for Wood, Miller is question mark in pass protection, and as bad as Mills has been, the Bills haven't found a replacement in 3 years. 

 

TE - Same. Similar to McCoy at RB. You have 29/30 year old holdover Clay. Even if his backups are better than O'Leary, how many catches do we really expect our backup TE to make a game? 1-2?

 

WR - Same. Benjamin is okay, but not a true #1, what is Zay Jones at this point? Then you're down to journeyman (Kerley, Holmes) and rookies. You don't have Deonte Thompson anymore.

 

DL - Same. Trent Murphy has been hurt nearly all of Training Camp, and has one nice NFL season before injury. Star L is a run stuffer, Kyle Williams is nearing the end of the line, and Hughes has been single digit sacks for 3 straight years. I do like the Harrison Phillips pick. Lawson is nothing more than a rotational player. But this preseason looked like this line could not generate any pressure. 

 

LB - Same, but realistically probably worse. Tremaine Edmunds is going to come in and be better than Preston Brown? Lorenzo Alexander is the same. Matt Milano is not a difference maker. 

 

CB - Same maybe, but likely a bit worse. White was excellent last season. But this year we don't have E.J. Gaines. We have 200 year old Vontae Davis and Phillip Gaines. 

 

S - Same. Hyde n' Poyer

 

 

 

You call his generous. Yours is miserly. 

 

I agree about QB but do you have to inflate the numbers? 5 ints, not 6.  

 

At QB the Bills have better upside than with Taylor, but downside too.

 

Benjamin is most definitely a true number 1. Maybe not the number 1 you want, but 1000 yards and 8 TDs a season, 14 yards per reception are fine numbers. If he's healthy he's a very big upgrade over last season.  Jones will be better.  Most importantly, if the QB is better, the receivers will be better. 

 

Edmund's better than Brown?  Probably

  He went be as good against the run, but he will be an asset rather than a liability in pass coverage.  Throwing against Brown was close to an automatic completion.  He just couldn't get to the spot.  

 

Still, I don't disagree that there's plenty to be concerned about. 

Edited by Shaw66

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1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

You call his generous. Yours is miserly. 

 

I agree about QB but do you have to inflate the numbers? 5 ints, not 6.  

 

At QB the Bills have better upside than with Taylor, but downside too.

 

Benjamin is most definitely a true number 1. Maybe not the number 1 you want, but 1000 yards and 8 TDs a season, 14 yards per reception are fine numbers. If he's healthy he's a very big upgrade over last season.  Jones will be better.  Most importantly, if the QB is better, the receivers will be better. 

 

Edmund's better than Brown?  Probably

  He went be as good against the run, but he will be an asset rather than a liability in pass coverage.  Throwing against Brown was close to an automatic completion.  He just couldn't get to the spot.  

 

Still, I don't disagree that there's plenty to be concerned about. 

Shaw, we've been around the block about a million times on the Bills. 

 

Its great that they made the Playoffs last season. I jumped around the room, as I assume all Bills fans did. But this has not been an overwhelmingly successful franchise outside of 1988-1993. And when you look at the real talent on this team, I can't see how they stack up against the Conferences best 6 teams to really crack the Playoffs again.

 

Peterman threw 5 picks against the Chargers in one half, threw 0 against the Colts, came in for one series against the Jags and threw an interception. We've seen him for less than 2 games of action and he's thrown 6 picks.  Again, I don't think Tyrod was a great QB, but he started for 3 straight years here. The combination of Peterman/Allen is going to be better than that immediately? I don't buy it. 

 

We can debate Benjamin. If he's a #1, than Steve Johnson was a #1 for three straight years here, and not many Bills fans have his back. Benjamin has had (1) 1,000 yard season (1,008 to be exact 4 years ago) in his career. He's had an ACL and meniscus since then. I like him, but he's a far cry from Odell, Julio, Antonio Brown, AJ Green, Mike Evans. He is the defacto #1, not a world beater. If he was a top flight #1, then he would have gone for more than a 3rd Round pick. 

 

Edmunds is 20 years old. Preston Brown was a 4 year starter. Its like you dismiss that with a flick of the hand. Like all Bills teams since 2004/2005, we have no linebacker depth at all.

 

It's too early for a judgment on Beane, but its fair to say that this team has next to no elite talent outside of holdover McCoy and maybe White. Beane spent Glenn, #12, #53, #56, #65 on Allen, Edmunds and Neal. 

 

In end, this team is still a function of horrible drafting, really from whatever date you want to pick. 2006 - Only K.Williams left, 2007 - Nothing, 2008 - Nothing, 2009 - Nothing, 2010 - Nothing, 2011 - Nothing, 2012 - Nothing, 2013 - Nothing, 2014  - Nothing, 2015 - Nothing unless you say John Miller, 2016 - Nothing except Washington. And before I get yelled at - I know Eric Wood was 2009, or Dareus was 2011, but none of those guys mean anything anymore.

 

So all that drafting is obviously not Beane and McDermott's fault, but those poor selections combined with the hard purge of Whaley's roster - Watkins, Glenn, Ragland, Dareus, Darby, Tyrod - have left this team band aiding with free agents and lower round picks. 

 

No?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Straight Hucklebuck

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1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Shaw, we've been around the block about a million times on the Bills. 

 

Its great that they made the Playoffs last season. I jumped around the room, as I assume all Bills fans did. But this has not been an overwhelmingly successful franchise outside of 1988-1993. And when you look at the real talent on this team, I can't see how they stack up against the Conferences best 6 teams to really crack the Playoffs again.

 

Peterman threw 5 picks against the Chargers in one half, threw 0 against the Colts, came in for one series against the Jags and threw an interception. We've seen him for less than 2 games of action and he's thrown 6 picks.  Again, I don't think Tyrod was a great QB, but he started for 3 straight years here. The combination of Peterman/Allen is going to be better than that immediately? I don't buy it. 

 

We can debate Benjamin. If he's a #1, than Steve Johnson was a #1 for three straight years here, and not many Bills fans have his back. Benjamin has had (1) 1,000 yard season (1,008 to be exact 4 years ago) in his career. He's had an ACL and meniscus since then. I like him, but he's a far cry from Odell, Julio, Antonio Brown, AJ Green, Mike Evans. He is the defacto #1, not a world beater. If he was a top flight #1, then he would have gone for more than a 3rd Round pick. 

 

Edmunds is 20 years old. Preston Brown was a 4 year starter. Its like you dismiss that with a flick of the hand. Like all Bills teams since 2004/2005, we have no linebacker depth at all.

 

It's too early for a judgment on Beane, but its fair to say that this team has next to no elite talent outside of holdover McCoy and maybe White. Beane spent Glenn, #12, #53, #56, #65 on Allen, Edmunds and Neal. 

 

In end, this team is still a function of horrible drafting, really from whatever date you want to pick. 2006 - Only K.Williams left, 2007 - Nothing, 2008 - Nothing, 2009 - Nothing, 2010 - Nothing, 2011 - Nothing, 2012 - Nothing, 2013 - Nothing, 2014  - Nothing, 2015 - Nothing unless you say John Miller, 2016 - Nothing except Washington. And before I get yelled at - I know Eric Wood was 2009, or Dareus was 2011, but none of those guys mean anything anymore.

 

So all that drafting is obviously not Beane and McDermott's fault, but those poor selections combined with the hard purge of Whaley's roster - Watkins, Glenn, Ragland, Dareus, Darby, Tyrod - have left this team band aiding with free agents and lower round picks. 

 

No?

 

This post opens a few more cans of worms. 

 

I think it's a lazy storyline to say the "franchise is a failure," which is true, until it isn't. It's like saying the New York Giants are great until they are not. The McBeane era is in Year 2 and McBeane can only be judged by the players and contracts they inherited and what they do next.  

 

So the question is: Was the "purge" a good thing or a bad thing?  Personally,  I don't believe Watkins was worth the money he wanted, Dareus certainly wasn't, Glenn spent far too much time on the IR and Ragland looked lost.  I view the McBeane moves have helped clear all the dead wood, the bloated contracts and players who needed to go. 

 

Next, they'll be judged by the players they have drafted, the players they brought in and the ones they kept.  Well, Year 1 was pretty damn good, Year 2 could have it's growing pains and  I'm really looking forward to Year 3 and 4 when the roster is truly theirs.

 

Pet peeve, and it may be unintentional, but I'm particular when trades are characterized as "giving up a pick" when it's part of swap.  In this case, he Bills traded picks #53 and #56 (via the Rams in another salary move) for the right to SWAP the 12th pick for the 7th pick. 

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23 minutes ago, Max Fischer said:

 

This post opens a few more cans of worms. 

 

I think it's a lazy storyline to say the "franchise is a failure," which is true, until it isn't. It's like saying the New York Giants are great until they are not. The McBeane era is in Year 2 and McBeane can only be judged by the players and contracts they inherited and what they do next.  

 

So the question is: Was the "purge" a good thing or a bad thing?  Personally,  I don't believe Watkins was worth the money he wanted, Dareus certainly wasn't, Glenn spent far too much time on the IR and Ragland looked lost.  I view the McBeane moves have helped clear all the dead wood, the bloated contracts and players who needed to go. 

 

Next, they'll be judged by the players they have drafted, the players they brought in and the ones they kept.  Well, Year 1 was pretty damn good, Year 2 could have it's growing pains and  I'm really looking forward to Year 3 and 4 when the roster is truly theirs.

 

Pet peeve, and it may be unintentional, but I'm particular when trades are characterized as "giving up a pick" when it's part of swap.  In this case, he Bills traded picks #53 and #56 (via the Rams in another salary move) for the right to SWAP the 12th pick for the 7th pick. 

Well, point number one, I didn't say the "franchise is a failure", I said they have not been an overwhelmingly good franchise except for the period of 1988-1993. 

 

The Bills haven't won a Playoff game since 1995. 

 

I stand by my statement, and I said that because every year debates rage between fans who are optimistic about the Bills, or in general, think they are on the right track and those fans who are not convinced. 

 

Maybe those players were dead wood, certainly not all of them were going to get paid. As much as I thought Watkins was overrated, he was a starter. As was Dareus, Tyrod, Darby, Glenn. Ragland, I understood, that's a run-stuffing LB, nothing special. 

 

I said that McDermott and Beane can not be held accountable for draft picks they didn't make. However, they took what few hits the Bills did have in the draft and purged almost of them. 

 

Also, this is the duo that backs Vlad Ducasse as a starter and only kept 260-pound FB Mike Tolbert as the backup RB to McCoy last year. 

 

I guess what I'm saying is I agree with the projections that the Bills will be bad in 2018. I do think the roster is weak. Its not all Beane/McDermott's fault. But next year they are going to have to pour resources into the offense, with Josh Allen moving into the starting role.  

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