Fadingpain Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Would like to see more creativity that takes advantage of Tyrod's legs/running ability; also need to find ways to get Spiller the ball in space. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: Would like to see more creativity that takes advantage of Tyrod's legs/running ability; also need to find ways to get Spiller the ball in space. ....so this is PAST TENSE then?........perhaps some Roscoe.......... Edited July 21, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 On 7/19/2018 at 1:28 PM, Behindenemylines said: Please dear God let's see the 'ole Statue of Liberty play from my 5th grade team. Gets em everytime my YMCA team had lot of success with the double reverse fake. I hope we run that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 21, 2018 Author Share Posted July 21, 2018 4 hours ago, Fadingpain said: Would like to see more creativity that takes advantage of Tyrod's legs/running ability; also need to find ways to get Spiller the ball in space. You're a Bad Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreggTX Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 It will look a LOT like his offenses in Cleveland -- stuck in neutral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 (edited) 1st down - Hand off to Shady for 3 yards 2nd down - incomplete pass 3rd down - Completed pass for 5 yards 4th down - Surrender, I mean Punt Edited July 21, 2018 by frostbitmic 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreggTX Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 On July 19, 2018 at 4:31 PM, Augie said: Actually, coming in around 20-25 in offense wouldn’t surprise me. It’s hard to be worst.... So you're saying... There IS a chance? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 On 7/19/2018 at 9:46 AM, Bangarang said: Run, run, low percentage pass, punt possibly not in that order. Pretty much this since it's about all that he'll have the talent on the field to do. On 7/19/2018 at 5:31 PM, Augie said: Actually, coming in around 20-25 in offense wouldn’t surprise me. It’s hard to be worst.... Why? Aside from McCoy, Clay, Benjamin, and maybe Dawkins, what other offensive players would make most NFL teams except as backups? The reality is that the Bills easily have one of the worst offensive talent levels in the entire NFL, so 28-32 is probably much more realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 36 minutes ago, SoTier said: Pretty much this since it's about all that he'll have the talent on the field to do. Why? Aside from McCoy, Clay, Benjamin, and maybe Dawkins, what other offensive players would make most NFL teams except as backups? The reality is that the Bills easily have one of the worst offensive talent levels in the entire NFL, so 28-32 is probably much more realistic. Considering Bodine has been a starter for four straight years in Cinci, I would list him (not saying he is a world beater, but has never NOT been a starter in the NFL). Zay Jones should not be discounted, he had a tough rookie season due to the space between his head...but I think he could crack "starter snaps" on some NFL teams for sure, not saying he would be a top two, but I think he can be competent. Kerley has been a slot starter for much of his career. Ivory has been a starter, at least shared carries throughout his career. We have no clue what we have in Allen at QB. I am not saying we will be even close to the best offense in the NFL, but having half of your players as starter level across the NFL isn't NOTHING. We have question marks, so does more than half of the league. And bottom line, really good coordinators can mask deficiencies and help pull out the best of players talent. Track record isn't awesome for Daboll in that regard, but hopefully he has learned a thing or two over the past five seasons and we will see a different, more seasoned coordinator. My two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 23, 2018 Author Share Posted July 23, 2018 33 minutes ago, PaattMaann said: And bottom line, really good coordinators can mask deficiencies and help pull out the best of players talent. Track record isn't awesome for Daboll in that regard, but hopefully he has learned a thing or two over the past five seasons and we will see a different, more seasoned coordinator. My two cents. You've put your finger on the real question IMO. In 2011, Gailey managed to put together a 14th in the league offense with Fitz at QB, Johnson Nelson and Chandler as targets. So right on, good coordinators can pull out the best their players have to give. That isn't Daboll's track record. Has he learned something? Or hasn't he? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 On 7/19/2018 at 8:46 AM, Bangarang said: Run, run, low percentage pass, punt possibly not in that order. Its sounds like every other offense we have run over the last 25yrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: You've put your finger on the real question IMO. In 2011, Gailey managed to put together a 14th in the league offense with Fitz at QB, Johnson Nelson and Chandler as targets. So right on, good coordinators can pull out the best their players have to give. That isn't Daboll's track record. Has he learned something? Or hasn't he? What track record are you referring to? If is the the 2009 and 2010 Browns. he had a horrible roster. 2009 Browns Quarterbacks 3 Derek Anderson 5 Brett Ratliff Running backs 29 Thomas Brown 35 Jerome Harrison 34 Chris Jennings 47 Lawrence Vickers FB Wide receivers 85 Jake Allen 16 Josh Cribbs RS 87 Mike Furrey 11 Mohamed Massaquoi 80 Brian Robiskie 88 Chansi Stuckey Tight ends 83 Greg Estandia 86 Michael Gaines 89 Evan Moore 84 Robert Royal 2010 Browns Quarterbacks 17 Jake Delhomme 12 Colt McCoy 6 Seneca Wallace Running backs 22 Mike Bell 40 Peyton Hillis 47 Lawrence Vickers FB Wide receivers 16 Josh Cribbs RS 11 Mohamed Massaquoi 18 Carlton Mitchell 10 Jordan Norwood 80 Brian Robiskie 83 Chansi Stuckey 88 Demetrius Williams Tight ends 84 Robert Royal 81 Alex Smith 82 Benjamin Watson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: What track record are you referring to? If is the the 2009 and 2010 Browns. he had a horrible roster. 2009 Browns Quarterbacks 3 Derek Anderson 5 Brett Ratliff Running backs 29 Thomas Brown 35 Jerome Harrison 34 Chris Jennings 47 Lawrence Vickers FB Wide receivers 85 Jake Allen 16 Josh Cribbs RS 87 Mike Furrey 11 Mohamed Massaquoi 80 Brian Robiskie 88 Chansi Stuckey Tight ends 83 Greg Estandia 86 Michael Gaines 89 Evan Moore 84 Robert Royal 2010 Browns Quarterbacks 17 Jake Delhomme 12 Colt McCoy 6 Seneca Wallace Running backs 22 Mike Bell 40 Peyton Hillis 47 Lawrence Vickers FB Wide receivers 16 Josh Cribbs RS 11 Mohamed Massaquoi 18 Carlton Mitchell 10 Jordan Norwood 80 Brian Robiskie 83 Chansi Stuckey 88 Demetrius Williams Tight ends 84 Robert Royal 81 Alex Smith 82 Benjamin Watson Daboll had bad offenses in cleveland, had the 20th ranked offense the next season as OC in Miami, and then a putrid offense in KC the year after that. Regardless of players (and the point we were talking about) a good OC can pull something out of them with coaching/system...so we are stuck with this question: Can Daboll do that? His track record of bad NFL offenses is not inspiring, but I am not sold on whether he can do that or not, but that will be KEY with how our offense performs this season - hence, has he learned anything since his last stint as an NFL OC? Based on who he has spent those years coaching with, I am betting he HAS and we will be impressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 23, 2018 Author Share Posted July 23, 2018 12 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: What track record are you referring to? If is the the 2009 and 2010 Browns. he had a horrible roster. The topic is coaches who elevate the talent on their roster and get the very best out of it. Daboll has a track record of 4 years OC in the NFL: 2009, 2010 Browns 2011 Dolphins 2012 Chiefs No one could say he was handed the keys to a Ferrari in any of those positions. The question is, did he get the best out of the talent he had? DId he elevate it? The only case where one might make that argument is the Dolphins. The rest, you can't say he had top-notch talent, but you can't say he got their best years out of them, either. That's his track record in the NFL as an OC. The question is, has he learned something in the last 5 years as a position coach and a college OC, or hasn't he? Time will tell. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, PaattMaann said: Daboll had bad offenses in cleveland, had the 20th ranked offense the next season as OC in Miami, and then a putrid offense in KC the year after that. Regardless of players (and the point we were talking about) a good OC can pull something out of them with coaching/system...so we are stuck with this question: Can Daboll do that? His track record of bad NFL offenses is not inspiring, but I am not sold on whether he can do that or not, but that will be KEY with how our offense performs this season - hence, has he learned anything since his last stint as an NFL OC? Based on who he has spent those years coaching with, I am betting he HAS and we will be impressed. You need some modicum of talent. He took Miami from 30th offense to 20th. Saban hired him. He can't be too bad. 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: The topic is coaches who elevate the talent on their roster and get the very best out of it. Daboll has a track record of 4 years OC in the NFL: 2009, 2010 Browns 2011 Dolphins 2012 Chiefs No one could say he was handed the keys to a Ferrari in any of those positions. The question is, did he get the best out of the talent he had? DId he elevate it? The only case where one might make that argument is the Dolphins. The rest, you can't say he had top-notch talent, but you can't say he got their best years out of them, either. That's his track record in the NFL as an OC. The question is, has he learned something in the last 5 years as a position coach and a college OC, or hasn't he? Time will tell. Who knows. Maybe he sucks and we hired a loser. That seems to be what you are implying, unless I am misreading your sentiment. He's been hired by a lot of good coaches, including McDermott and they know more that we do. I choose to be optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Sky Diver said: You need some modicum of talent. He took Miami from 30th offense to 20th. Saban hired him. He can't be too bad. no one is saying hes bad dude....read. Hapless and I are saying this: the real question this season is if Daboll is the type of OC who can get the most of his talent, regardless of what that talent is, because really good coordinators do seem to get the most out of their players. Daboll's best offense has been ranked 20th overall. That isn't a good track record in 4 years of NFL experience. BUT SINCE THEN, he has likely gotten a chance to improve himself as a coach by working with the best coaches in the business, and that has gotten him another shot with the Bills...we are hoping it is enough improvement that he now CAN get the most out of his players, regardless of talent. We aren't trashing him dude, relax. We are just trying to intelligently discuss the chances of him having learned since his last, not so great, go arounds as an NFL OC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sky Diver Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 1 minute ago, PaattMaann said: no one is saying hes bad dude....read. Hapless and I are saying this: the real question this season is if Daboll is the type of OC who can get the most of his talent, regardless of what that talent is, because really good coordinators do seem to get the most out of their players. Daboll's best offense has been ranked 20th overall. That isn't a good track record in 4 years of NFL experience. BUT SINCE THEN, he has likely gotten a chance to improve himself as a coach by working with the best coaches in the business, and that has gotten him another shot with the Bills...we are hoping it is enough improvement that he now CAN get the most out of his players, regardless of talent. We aren't trashing him dude, relax. We are just trying to intelligently discuss the chances of him having learned since his last, not so great, go arounds as an NFL OC. Unless you have a crystal ball and can predict the future, I don't see where we are heading with the discussion. I am relaxed, dude and I added a highly intelligent comment. Maybe you missed it, dude. "He's been hired by a lot of good coaches, including McDermott and they know more that we do. I choose to be optimistic." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted July 23, 2018 Author Share Posted July 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, Sky Diver said: You need some modicum of talent. He took Miami from 30th offense to 20th. Saban hired him. He can't be too bad. Who knows. Maybe he sucks and we hired a loser. That seems to be what you are implying, unless I am misreading your sentiment. He's been hired by a lot of good coaches, including McDermott and they know more that we do. I choose to be optimistic. Try to keep up, Diver. The statements I have that you need to interpret are "So right on, good coordinators can pull out the best their players have to give. That isn't Daboll's track record. Has he learned something? Or hasn't he?" and "The question is, did he get the best out of the talent he had? DId he elevate it? The only case where one might make that argument is the Dolphins. The rest, you can't say he had top-notch talent, but you can't say he got their best years out of them, either." That's his track record in the NFL as an OC. The question is, has he learned something in the last 5 years as a position coach and a college OC, or hasn't he? Time will tell. To turn that into "he sucks and we hired a loser" is such a gimondulous stretch that I'm concerned about the health and integrity of your hamstrings. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaattMaann Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Sky Diver said: Unless you have a crystal ball and can predict the future, I don't see where we are heading with the discussion. I am relaxed, dude and I added a highly intelligent comment. Maybe you missed it, dude. "He's been hired by a lot of good coaches, including McDermott and they know more that we do. I choose to be optimistic." I don't think either Hapless or myself are not choosing to be optimistic. We were discussing what needs to happen in order to predict what Dabolls offense will look like (the thread purpose). If he hasn't improved as an OC since his last go round in the NFL, we will be looking at a bottom feeder offense, as his other NFL offenses have been. If he has learned and improved (great chance at that, who isn't better at their job now than they were 8 years ago? who wouldn't get better coaching along side two of the greatest coaches to ever live?) then he will know what he has to do to get the most out of his players and his offense, and we will be pleasantly surprised with what we see him from offense. Will be an exciting year hopefully if its the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills4Ever4Life Posted July 23, 2018 Share Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: The topic is coaches who elevate the talent on their roster and get the very best out of it. Daboll has a track record of 4 years OC in the NFL: 2009, 2010 Browns 2011 Dolphins 2012 Chiefs No one could say he was handed the keys to a Ferrari in any of those positions. The question is, did he get the best out of the talent he had? DId he elevate it? The only case where one might make that argument is the Dolphins. The rest, you can't say he had top-notch talent, but you can't say he got their best years out of them, either. That's his track record in the NFL as an OC. The question is, has he learned something in the last 5 years as a position coach and a college OC, or hasn't he? Time will tell. Sadly, each of those teams was bad for a year or two before Daboll came in. The only team to improve when he came in was the dolphins. It's a lot of wait and see and guesswork at this point but I have a feeling our offense will be atrocious this year. Here is hoping I am wrong Edited July 23, 2018 by Bills4Ever4Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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