row_33 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I am under no illusion that our government is perfect and that some horrible decisions have been made. But at present the decision has to be made as to what to do about a foreign country interfering with our electoral process. And I certainly side with us vs. them in that regard. is the President to be held responsible if 12 goofballs on US soil hack into the horribly protected servers of foreign governments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHARDTRUTH Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 13 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said: This is a perfect segue back into some prior content I posted that you never responded to. The Kim's hands have been tied for decades because the CIA was actively running North Korea as a black site. It's the reason Trump's reformed CIA used was to conduct the recent diplomatic relations there in the build up to Trumps summit instead of State who always fills that role. Kim reached out to the Obama administration seeking exactly the same thing that President Trump successfully negotiated, and Obama ignored him. The DPRK wanted normalized relations for a long time. Only by removing black hat bad actors in our CIA was this able to be achieved. The CIA is not to be trusted. Full stop. Here's a short list of examples of the good work they've done in the world. I'd like you to respond to this, and explain to me why you, I , or anyone else owes them any allegiance. Lying us into Iraq The Bay of Pigs." MKUltra Intentionally releasing the whooping cough in the Tampa Bay area Intentionally infecting Guatemalans with syphilis Injecting unsuspecting US citizens with plutonium Injecting prisoners with the main ingredient of Agent Orange Choosing to protect and insulate known pedophiles in government Dosing unsuspecting US citizens with LSD Overthrowing the governments of Iran, Argentina, Guatemala, the Congo, the Dominican Republic, South Vietnam, and Chile Running the global supply of opiates Those little green people you see running around your house arent real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: Just looked at it. Bizarre of course. And wrong. Do you believe that a rogue and unaccountable agency, empowered to do terrible things like this simply stops? The CIA did much of this in an attempt to actualize mind control, and they succeeded. In the 1960's they succeeded. You were unaware of this. So is most everyone else. They were protected and insulated to do this for a purpose. It's 60 years later. Do you think they've stopped? Or perhaps they've gotten better at it? This wasn't in any way unique either. The list I gave you is completely incomprehensive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 19 minutes ago, #34fan said: Just so I know, who's Hitler and who's Stalin in this scenario? Trump's a Nazi, Putin's a commie. You really need this explained? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 so Liberals will now start defending the reputation of Hoover? and the agencies during the covert action in Central America in the 1980s? this will be rich..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, row_33 said: is the President to be held responsible if 12 goofballs on US soil hack into the horribly protected servers of foreign governments? who is Obama for $400 Alex. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Just now, row_33 said: is the President to be held responsible if 12 goofballs on US soil hack into the horribly protected servers of foreign governments? He's head of the Executive branch. The Executive branch executes the laws of our country. DOJ and the FBI are under the Executive branch. Is he personally responsible? No. But ultimately it falls under his direction. If American citizens committed such a crime then his department enforces the laws of our country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: He's head of the Executive branch. The Executive branch executes the laws of our country. DOJ and the FBI are under the Executive branch. Is he personally responsible? No. But ultimately it falls under his direction. If American citizens committed such a crime then his department enforces the laws of our country. sounds good on paper you want Putin to answer for everyone in Russia??? it's really laughable.... Obama gloated when Germany complained about the US bugging and hacking everything in Germany, he also directly interfered in the elections of Israel, gloated about that as well... try to maintain even 1% consistency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHARDTRUTH Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I am under no illusion that our government is perfect and that some horrible decisions have been made. But at present the decision has to be made as to what to do about a foreign country interfering with our electoral process. And I certainly side with us vs. them in that regard. Let me bring you up to speed oldmanfan. Most of the people in this politics thread are certifable. Your wasting your time trying to have a rational discussion with them. Its like trying to have a logical debate with Charles Manson or Ted Bundy. Dont waste your time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said: What about all those other accusations? Whooping cough? Plutonium? whooping cough plutonium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 31 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I certainly think North Korea is irrational. How many administrations have tried to have a dialog with them and yet they are still getting nuclear weapons on board.putin may be more rational but he is like a bully that won't quit until you smack him in the face. Trying to use rational thought processes with irrational people doesn't work. I would disagree that North Korea has historically acted irrationally. You have to remember that the number one priority of the Kim Dynasty is to maintain the existence of the Kim Dynasty. Their people are starving, oppressed, and forced into servitude. They've used generational propaganda to secure loyalty, compliance, and obedience. They need to rattle the sabre constantly at 'enemies' and imaginary invasion plans to keep the people distracted from their hungry bellies, as cults of personality, hero worship, and brain washing only go so far when you're starving to death. Every single bit of sabre rattling and nuclear ambition has been geared for domestic consumption to make the Kims look strong and, ultimately, benevolent. North Korea is never going to use nuclear weapons as an offensive measure (short of a last resort/revenge strike during an actual invasion of Best Korea by the US/ROK/Japan/etc.), because they darn well know they're not going to survive the reprisals. Joe NorthKorean doesn't necessarily know that. All he has been told is that they need to be strong before the imperial capitalist pigdogs invade and take what little they have away. If you look at it from the Best Korean perspective, their actions do make sense. I don't really subscribe to the CIA playground thing, but that is possible. That said, I think that it's a huge (or yuge, if you want) concession that Lil' Kim is revising the propaganda to his people, softening them to cooperation with the imperialist capitalist pigdog puppetmaster United States. That part doesn't get much play in the media that I've seen, because it's not as tangible as meetings and returning the bodies of dead American servicemen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaDexter Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 7 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: Rosenstein, a Trump hire btw, may end up a national hero because he actually is He already is a "national hero," the nation being ISRAEL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHARDTRUTH Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 1 minute ago, LaDexter said: He already is a "national hero," the nation being ISRAEL. Exhibit A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Brown Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 53 minutes ago, row_33 said: he has always been America First and is going to implement it in foreign policy hopefully avoid all the blunders made since WW2, so much could have been avoided Yankee come home He's Trump first who views America as the strongest country and has always desperately sought the approval of the elites. We can't avoid blunders that we already made because if we tried we'd risk unraveling the fabric of the space time continuum and destroy the entire universe. The Yankees are much better at home. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 59 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I would need to research a whole lot of what you've posted here to determine if there's any validity. Dosing citizens with LSD? If you're going to try and convince me that the North Koreans are the good guys and we're the bad guys, don't bother. It's not "we're the bad guys" - "we" are not the CIA, or the elements of that organization that sold this country out decades ago. That's the point Tasker is trying to drive home, there has long been a pernicious infiltration of our intelligence services by a group that does not have our nation's best interest in mind. That group has held the wheel of power for your entire life (and mine). They are being shown the door across the globe, and the wailing and hyperbolic overreactions we are seeing are driven (largely) by their messaging industries. We are today in the middle of a world war. It's World War III, but it's being fought in the shadows by intelligence services (private and nation state backed). The enemy isn't foreign or domestic - it's both and not localized to any one nation or agency. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I buy the Russians did it. However, I think the reason they did it is because there is a personal beef between Putin and the Clintons and it's either ridiculous, incriminating or horrific, and that's why Obama didn't touch it and Trump is going to sidestep it. Obama wasn't going to ride to Hillary's rescue and Trump certainly isn't. I know the narrative is "what does Russia have on Trump" but you never see much about why Russia would have it in for the Clintons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaDexter Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: there has long been a pernicious infiltration of our intelligence services by a group that does not have our nation's best interest in mind Agreed.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 55 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: I am under no illusion that our government is perfect and that some horrible decisions have been made. But at present the decision has to be made as to what to do about a foreign country interfering with our electoral process. And I certainly side with us vs. them in that regard. "Us versus Them" is an invention designed to divide and confuse. Oldest trick in the book. Shouldn't our aim be to find the truth and seek out justice, not just resort to lizard brain tribalism? 51 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: He's head of the Executive branch. The Executive branch executes the laws of our country. DOJ and the FBI are under the Executive branch. Is he personally responsible? No. But ultimately it falls under his direction. If American citizens committed such a crime then his department enforces the laws of our country. What if those American citizens who committed those crimes sat in positions of power inside the intelligence agencies? What if one of those Americans who committed crimes was sitting in the Oval Office? How do you prosecute former administration officials in this current divisive environment without it being seen as political payback? (Still not trying to be annoying to you, Oldmanfan, just trying to keep the conversation going because you're asking good and fair questions) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: It's not "we're the bad guys" - "we" are not the CIA, or the elements of that organization that sold this country out decades ago. That's the point Tasker is trying to drive home, there has long been a pernicious infiltration of our intelligence services by a group that does not have our nation's best interest in mind. That group has held the wheel of power for your entire life (and mine). They are being shown the door across the globe, and the wailing and hyperbolic overreactions we are seeing are driven (largely) by their messaging industries. We are today in the middle of a world war. It's World War III, but it's being fought in the shadows by intelligence services (private and nation state backed). The enemy isn't foreign or domestic - it's both and not localized to any one nation or agency. This is exactly correct. The world is not binary. It's not that "the United States is bad" and "North Korea is good", it's that there are definitively bad actors within the US government who act in a rogue capacity in the service of constituencies whom are not in government, and in most cases aren't even American. They have been able to operate because they control many elected (and unelected, think both bureaucrats and the courts) members of our governments (state, federal, local), foreign governments, and heads of major media (old and new) and major corporations through a system of blackmail, which has become far more wide spread and far more insidious in the information age when we gave them unfettered access to everyone's digital communications. When you can control a man via information you have about him, either that you harvested or created through honey-potting, you can control every decision he makes towards your ends. You can control votes in Congress. You can control the decisions rendered by the Court. You can control voices in the media and use them to propagandize for you. You can control monetary policy. You can control the world. These are bad actors doing absurdly evil things. You owe them no allegiance. In fact, if you value American sovereignty, human freedom, and the goodness of man you owe your allegiance to fighting them such that we can give a better world to our children. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 1 hour ago, TakeYouToTasker said: whooping cough plutonium Funny how alot of those experiments happened in San Fransisco. Kinda explains alot of things! Thank you for the links bud!? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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