Someone Answer Me One Question

[DeeRay]

So, you're saying having a subpar O-line is a Bills management consiracy

to make the team more marketable by having the franchise rookie QB

killed his first year?

 

SO CAL.. WTF?? All I'm bringing is the truth... there's no conspiracy. Ralph has taken inventory and completed his introspection. His done as well as he can here and there is no point in playing games with the salary cap to field a SB team... No one sells or buys a SB team. A new owner wants to buy a team at a reasonable price and then take advantage of PSL revenue, Luxury Suite revenue, the potential to own or have a stadium funded, naming rights to a stadium, etc. all of the revenue streams that a new owner won't have to share with the other owners. Revenue streams that aren't and will never be in NYS... those are just the facts.

 

Burt not to worry SoCal... the new owner could relocate to your neck of the woods (LA, Sacremento) and you could be a lucky season ticket holder. I can just visualize that stadium. Domed, adorned with 10,000 luxury suits, 20, 000 general seats for those who can only afford to pay $20K for a PSL and antoher $35K for a season ticket instead of $1.5M for a luxury suite. Concierges on every level, bikini clad ushers, valet parking, helicopter pads, a small airport with long runways, separete entrances for Vips, politicians, and movie stars, wine tasting kiosks, Dom perignone vendors throughout the place. Plasma monitors all over the place, wireless internet access in every seat.... Oh what a glorius stadium. The naming rights can probably be had for a measley $20M/year... How about Sony stadium... or WB stadium, or The IPOD DOME.

 

I'm telling you now... this team is being prepared to be sold, not to win a SB.

[dave mcbride]

What choo talkin' 'bout?

I've been screaming for years about the piss-poor attention to the OL that TD has paid.

During one point in last year's training camp we had 13 Tackles and one "Guard" listed on the roster. Even Teague was listed as an OT. Until this offseason TD has brought in mostly OT's to fill every available position on the OL. Only recently has he brought in Guards. He brought in one Center and that was a walk-on FA from Louisville that didn't make the squad. This has been a pathetic showing by TD and it's been a long overlooked area of need.

271970[/snapback]

in retrospect, the worst personnel day in bills team history the last 15 years was when the bills got screwed on the will wolford deal under the old franchise player rule. the whole imbroglio led to a change in the rule. in 13 years, they've never come close to replacing him. they finally replaced house ballard with mike williams, but williams is no better than house, who just happened to be an 11th round pick.

[dave mcbride]

SO CAL.. WTF??  All I'm bringing is the truth... there's no conspiracy.  Ralph has taken inventory and completed his introspection.  His done as well as he can here and there is no point in playing games with the salary cap to field a SB team... No one sells or buys a SB team.  A new owner wants to buy a team at a reasonable price and then take advantage of PSL revenue, Luxury Suite revenue, the potential to own or have a stadium funded, naming rights to a stadium, etc. all of the revenue streams that  a new owner won't have to share with the other owners.  Revenue streams that aren't and will never be in NYS... those are just the facts.

 

Burt not to worry SoCal... the new owner could relocate to your neck of the woods (LA, Sacremento) and you could be a lucky season ticket holder.  I can just visualize that stadium.  Domed, adorned with 10,000 luxury suits, 20, 000 general seats for those who can only afford to pay $20K for a PSL and antoher $35K for a season ticket instead of $1.5M for a luxury suite.  Concierges on every level, bikini clad ushers, valet parking, helicopter pads, a small airport with long runways, separete entrances for Vips, politicians, and movie stars,  wine tasting kiosks,  Dom perignone vendors throughout the place.  Plasma monitors all over the place, wireless internet access in every seat.... Oh what a glorius stadium.  The naming rights can probably be had for a measley $20M/year... How about Sony stadium... or WB stadium, or  The IPOD DOME.

 

I'm telling you now... this team is being prepared to be sold, not to win a SB.

272003[/snapback]

oh yeah. the la market has proven to be soooooooo profitable for nfl teams these past 40 years. the bills are very profitable, far more valuable than their market size would lead one to believe, and possessing a quite good stadium situation. they're not leaving. there are at least 5 teams lined up in front of them.

[dave mcbride]

oh yeah. the la market has proven to be soooooooo profitable for nfl teams these past 40 years. the bills are very profitable, far more valuable than their market size would lead one to believe, and possessing a quite good stadium situation. they're not leaving.  there are at least 5 teams lined up in front of them.

272069[/snapback]

p.s. i suggest you take a look at california voter support for public funding of stadiums the past 15 years. there is none.

[IDBillzFan]

p.s. i suggest you take a look at california voter support for public funding of stadiums the past 15 years. there is none.

272070[/snapback]

And when he says there is none, he's being nice about it. California is in the midst of hopefully recovering from a clusterfug of a Governor. Most of the population isn't quite sure if things are improving, and the rest can't speak English. If someone jumped into the fray and said "Hey, do you mind if we take more money to build a football stadium?"

 

Yeah. Right. The only place looking forward to that idea is Hell because they'd finally have a cold day.

[coltrane34]

Jennings never played a full season. Espn reported that he was the worst signing in receint history for the niners, it was not worth paying Jennings for the play he delivered. Krumrie made a decient line last year with injuries and new personell. They still have many players that can fill the void, remember that Jason Peters could be the most athletic tackle in the league. Give some of these young guys a chance to prove themselves.

[AKC]

Despite all the yelling here, the line could return 3 starters in Williams at RT, Chris V at RG and Teague at C.

271923[/snapback]

 

Stop making sense.

 

Even among the better lines in the league it's not uncommon for them to be looking at one or two new starters next season; Green Bay, Indy, New England, Pittsburgh and Philly come to mind. With arguably our best fitting 3 linemen returning to play in the Clements running scheme our position might even be considered desirable by most league standards.

 

Our failure to participate in the high FA bidding for the pieces we do desire might most accurately be recognized as a testament to TDs good discipline- imagine if we were looking at the hefty Rivera (a guy whose skills I liked a lot for us) contract along with his disc surgery? The Donahoe detractors would be grinding their tooth nubs right to the gum now had we gone in that direction. Wahle's cap hits over the next 3 years would kill us somewhere else- probably TE- and this offense will not be playoff-ready without a superior run blocking TE who can make some third down grabs. Campbell had developed very good technique and feel for the offense but he's a mid-level contributor coming off a very bad injury for his spot on the field.

 

I think the complaints right now are merely due to the lack of a media friendly signing- but it was just a year ago that the Villarial pickup drew virtually no positive media and TSW attention yet he was one of the best value prop FA signings of the '04 off-season, in fact for my money Villarial was the single best FA siging last off-season. I credit the guy smart enought to make it happen in a workable cap scenario. I'm watching intently to see how he trumps that work.

[jahnyc]

I agree with SoCal. We must do better with the o-line and I am getting tired of musical chairs.

 

1. We are overpaying for M. Williams. He is not worth $9 million this year and next year.

2. We have too many guys that can play multiple positions but none of them particularly well. Versatility is great, but I would rather have a solid performer who can only play one position.

3. Center, LG and LT all need to be fixed. We can't go into the season with Teague at LT with a very inexperienced QB. This would be a recipe for disaster. I know he has played LT, but that was four years ago and Shanahan wanted to upgrade the position at the time.

4. We have no depth because our late round picks have not been panning out. I give TD credit for his first round picks, but it is kind of surprising that we have missed on so many late round picks (Pucillo, Sobieski, etc.).

5. We can't start the season hoping that Peters and Bannon will be our starters. They will need time and work before they will be ready to play a significant amount of time.

6. McNally is a great coach, but give him talent to work with so that he can help develop an excellent line instead of a line that is patched together with below average talent. Don't put it all on him.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

It amazes me that folks look to spin ornate theories to explain the OL problems centering on things they cannot possibly know for sure when it pretty much strikes me as being explained by the bad decision to hire a first HC GW with no real offensive feel and commitment. The fact GW saw the OL of such importance that he hired his buddy with zero Ol coaching experience to run the unit and the replace him with a guy with one year's experience tells you all you need to know to understand our failure and problems here.

[BillsGuyInMalta]

Sadly, our best Guard option being DeMulling will sign with Detroit because we have no money to spend. Friggin Pro Bowl surge for Clements...Ugh.

 

I'm very concerned over our O-Line this offseason...DeMulling will choose the money over the chance to play for us (I dont blame him) and we'll more than likely have a rookie starting on that O-Line. Scary.

[Fan in San Diego]

SO CAL.. WTF??  All I'm bringing is the truth... there's no conspiracy.  Ralph has taken inventory and completed his introspection.  His done as well as he can here and there is no point in playing games with the salary cap to field a SB team... No one sells or buys a SB team.  A new owner wants to buy a team at a reasonable price and then take advantage of PSL revenue, Luxury Suite revenue, the potential to own or have a stadium funded, naming rights to a stadium, etc. all of the revenue streams that  a new owner won't have to share with the other owners.  Revenue streams that aren't and will never be in NYS... those are just the facts.

 

Burt not to worry SoCal... the new owner could relocate to your neck of the woods (LA, Sacremento) and you could be a lucky season ticket holder.  I can just visualize that stadium.  Domed, adorned with 10,000 luxury suits, 20, 000 general seats for those who can only afford to pay $20K for a PSL and antoher $35K for a season ticket instead of $1.5M for a luxury suite.  Concierges on every level, bikini clad ushers, valet parking, helicopter pads, a small airport with long runways, separete entrances for Vips, politicians, and movie stars,  wine tasting kiosks,  Dom perignone vendors throughout the place.  Plasma monitors all over the place, wireless internet access in every seat.... Oh what a glorius stadium.  The naming rights can probably be had for a measley $20M/year... How about Sony stadium... or WB stadium, or  The IPOD DOME.

 

I'm telling you now... this team is being prepared to be sold, not to win a SB.

272003[/snapback]

 

That stadium will have to be built with private money. Because the people of So Cal have voted many times to not build stadiums with public money. Why do you think there is no team in LA anymore?

 

San Diego barely hung onto it's team because of stadium issues and public money.

[jarthur31]

The two are not mutually exclusive of one another.

271915[/snapback]

 

Agreed but it won't make them better by replacing that QB for another. It won't open up running lanes any better or all of a sudden be able to pick up the blitz either.

 

People here don't like to talk about that fumble for a TD against Pitt but if you look closely, no one on the right side picked up that LB and allowed him to walk w/o so much as a glance his way. Yes, DB should've noticed it but this call is up to the center to make. Mike Williams should've noticed it anyway and alerted someone.

[jarthur31]

And that's the good news, I think.

 

The Bills ranked 23rd in the league with 3.9 yards/carry.

 

That is not good.

271928[/snapback]

 

No it isn't. Willis worked very hard for all those yards he got too. Alot of times he made things happen on his own.

 

That line isn't very smart on blitz pickups either.

[Nanker]

in retrospect, the worst personnel day in bills team history the last 15 years was when the bills got screwed on the will wolford deal under the old franchise player rule. the whole imbroglio led to a change in the rule. in 13 years, they've never come close to replacing him. they finally replaced house ballard with mike williams, but williams is no better than house, who just happened to be an 11th round pick.

272068[/snapback]

 

Exactly. That still rankles my ass. Then the bastids meddle and tamper with Marchibroda during the playoffs. I hope Polian signs a bunch of those insurance adjusters Peyton cheers for to long term contracts with the only money he has left after giving Manning $84million per year.

[Simon]

How many times do you think "the Statue" ran the ball.  To run,

you generally have to be standing: upright!

 

271948[/snapback]

 

No, Drew's 37yrdsrushing for a 1.7 average didn't have any effect but a negative one on the Bills average. However Vick's (900yrds at 7.5/carry), Culpepper's (400+yrds at 4.7yrds/carry), McNabb's(200+ at 5.4yrds/carry) and Carr's (300yrds at 4.2yrds/carry) averages did have a real effect on team rushing averages. So did McNair's 5.6yrds/carry, Garcia's 4.8yrds/carry and Leftwich's 4.8yrds/carry.

Factor this in and you'll vault the Bills into the top half of the league in yrds/carry average even though they faced as many if not more 8man fronts than any other team in the NFL.

Oh and btw, Willis' yards/carry was better than LTomlinson's, JBettis', DMcCallister's, CPortis', RudiJ's, DDavis', ESmith's, etc. By your "logic" the OLines of SanDiego, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and Arizona are all in worse shape than ours...........yeah, right.

So if you want to use stats to support your short-sighted, small-minded repetitive campaign, you'll have to use different ones that actually strengthen your position as opposed to these ones which instead weaken it.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

I don't think you can totally blame TD for the O-line. Thsi goes back to ast few years of JB regime. Who did he draft in first couple of rounds for O-line? Infact who did he draft last couple of years anywhere that has worked out any better than how TD has done?

 

With the exception of Williams and Jenningsed to use higher picks on other positions. Without many of those picks, doubt we would have had the #2 defense in league. Has Williams worked out as well as had hoped? No but wouldn't call him a bust either. I don't hink you can blame TDfor picking MW or his contract status, cause the $$ go along with where he was picked. The only better option he would have had was to have traded down, which seem to recall he tried, but didn't have much luck getting good value. Jennings worked out well enough that he got a huge and probably un-warrented contract offer. If/when you draft good players you tend to lose some as FA. The Bills lost two starters this year plus DB

 

Three or four of last years O-lineman are back, so not sure I'd call this rebuilding. It wouldn't surprise me if we still sign someone to play tackle. Guard who knows, but if Ross Tucker is the worst O-lineman we have this year, I'd say we're in pretty good shape.

[San-O]

No, Drew's 37yrdsrushing for a 1.7 average didn't have any effect but a negative one on the Bills average. However Vick's (900yrds at 7.5/carry), Culpepper's (400+yrds at 4.7yrds/carry), McNabb's(200+ at 5.4yrds/carry) and Carr's (300yrds at 4.2yrds/carry) averages did have a real effect on team rushing averages. So did McNair's 5.6yrds/carry, Garcia's 4.8yrds/carry and Leftwich's 4.8yrds/carry.

Factor this in and you'll vault the Bills into the top half of the league in yrds/carry average even though they faced as many if not more 8man fronts than any other team in the NFL.

Oh and btw, Willis' yards/carry was better than LTomlinson's, JBettis', DMcCallister's, CPortis', RudiJ's, DDavis', ESmith's, etc. By your "logic" the OLines of SanDiego, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and Arizona are all in worse shape than ours...........yeah, right.

So if you want to use stats to support your short-sighted, small-minded repetitive campaign, you'll have to use different ones that actually strengthen your position as opposed to these ones which instead weaken it.

272302[/snapback]

 

Wait, STOP THE PRESSES! This just in. Drew Can't run!

 

So, Bledsoe can't scramble like Mike Vick and if he could, the yards/rush

numbers would be better. OK. If he didn't have to scramble ever, because

the O-line protected so good, they would be worse.

 

I guess the O-line is the strongest unit on the team and not an issue.

[Coach Tuesday]

How can we be in the fifth year of the TD regime and still not have an

offensive line in place.  This team was torn apart, and rebuilt with all

TD guys, and now we have a rookie QB going behind center and

the only position we know for certain is RG.

 

Is this the way to build a team. 

 

This really shows how bad the Bills have been at drafting O-linemen

and how poorly they have done on the 2nd day of the draft.

 

Oh yeah,  TD does NOT get a pass this year because of a rookie QB.

271902[/snapback]

 

The Chiefs are rebuilding their defense for the umpteenth time this offseason, and they STILL don't have a quality WR (not counting Gonzales).

 

The Ravens are rebuilding their WR corps for the umpteenth year in a row this offseason.

 

The Broncos are rebuilding their defense again this year.

 

The Dolphins are rebuilding their o-line AND their QB position for the 10th year in a row or whatever it is.

 

The Texans are rebuilding their line and their linebacking corps AGAIN this year.

 

The Browns are starting from scratch with every position on their roster this year.

 

The Bengals still haven't been able to attract quality FA defenders.

 

The Colts STILL don't have a playoff defense after how many rebuilds?

 

(and on and on and on and on)

 

and this is just the AFC.

 

This ain't an easy business to succeed in, folks.

[Poeticlaw]

Very few have even admitted that our line sucked.  We've been trying to rebuild it since the K-gun days. 

 

Why do people all of a sudden realize this line isn't something that can take us deep into the playoffs right now?  And don't say it was because of the QB that the line sucked.

271914[/snapback]

 

 

Ok, I will be the first to say it was because the QB sucked. THe guys that hold the ball way too long make the line look extremely bad I.E. Rob Johnson and Drew Bledsoe. We have seen evidence of Flutie coming in an making oour line that looked horendous look pretty good after RJ. However, We dont know how bad or good the line really is until Losman gets into some games. MOreover, Bledsoe's immobility and replacement of Brady in NE turned their OL from worse in the leaugue to 3 time world champions. THe same line with only rookie replacements over the years. Thus, IMHO I feel the only part of this line that needs upgrading is the center. I have stated this since day one and had felt this way for 2 years. The center is the core of the line, first and foremost.

The only other 2 areas id like to see adressed is the 3rd/poession/slot reciver position and TE. THen i believe we have the tools too make the legiitamate shot at the title this season. Finally, depth, depth, depth. If there is any apge I want to take from the Pats its DEPTH adequate depth keeps you in the hunt when the stars go down.

[GG]

My only wish is that people stop using 20/20 hindsight vision in evaluating current roster moves.

 

While I agree that TD & Co. have had a few misses in their acquisitions, I would not characterize the current effort as a total overhaul of the line.

 

There are basically three schools of thought about building an OL:

 

Parcells theory of building the line around a LT

Beightol theory of building around a C,

and the Coaching theory of hiring the best OL coach and opportunistically fitting the players.

 

IMHO, TD has been trying to address the OL since he got here. If there is a glaring hole, it's Big Mike's inability to step up his game to merit the high draft selection. But of the two consensus top 10 OL picks, I'm still not sold that MW is worse than McKinnie. Levi Jones hasn't been tearing up DLs as well. So if anything, how much should we hold TD accountable for addressing a serious need in a very weak OL draft?

 

You also have to wonder about the OL coaching staff where Pucillo was the starter in '03, while a more capable Tucker sat on the bench.

 

Last year's signing of Villareal made a huge improvement to the line, and we saw the results whenever #58 was not in on the snaps.

 

The FA OL carousel at OBD this spring hopes to address the holes at the interior line. While there's not a definite starter at LT, each guy is more than competent at every line position, and will give McNally an opportunity to put the right spots in place by June.

 

We may see Big Mike get moved to LG, DeMulling at C and Teague back at LT, and Womack at RT. Perhaps other combination of the above. I think Villareal has the only lock on the spot. If anything, I'd feel more comfortable about Gandy coming in as 2nd string than Lawrence Smith or Pucillo.