thenorthremembers Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 Find one quarterback drafted in the last fifteen years with a less than 57% completion percentage in college that was a hit. I cant seem to find one. I think he is a gigantic risk. As far as being a similar athlete to Cam Newton, pretty sure Cam is about 30 pounds heavier and runs a 4.5 compared to Allen's 4.7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 13 hours ago, Thurmanator 12074 said: It will take 32 starts for us to know that. So it will not happen until 3 years from now. 1 year of sitting 2 years as a starter It sure as hell didn't take 32 starts to know EJ was a complete and total bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: Find one quarterback drafted in the last fifteen years with a less than 57% completion percentage in college that was a hit. I cant seem to find one. I think he is a gigantic risk. As far as being a similar athlete to Cam Newton, pretty sure Cam is about 30 pounds heavier and runs a 4.5 compared to Allen's 4.7 Allen is more in the Carson Wentz mold of athlete, but he'll still be one of the more athletic QBs in the league. And I'm assuming you purposefully used 57% as the cutoff so that people couldn't point to Matt Stafford's 57.1%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 Stay away from projects...they almost never pan out...get the guy that is the most ready to start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 1 minute ago, DCOrange said: Allen is more in the Carson Wentz mold of athlete, but he'll still be one of the more athletic QBs in the league. And I'm assuming you purposefully used 57% as the cutoff so that people couldn't point to Matt Stafford's 57.1%? Did you watch his 40 time at the combine? He runs like a constipated Neanderthal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOboy Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 I'll say this, there's a good chance he's either overrated or underrated, as opinions on him are definitely polarizing. Only time will tell though, as none of us really know how he'll pan out. Personally I'd feel a lot better about Rosen, Darnold, or Mayfield (in that order). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: Did you watch his 40 time at the combine? He runs like a constipated Neanderthal. Who cares as long as he's moving fast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, JaCrispy said: Stay away from projects...they almost never pan out...get the guy that is the most ready to start What if the project has an "it" factor that you can't put a numerical value on? You know, "presence" when he walks into the room. Doug Whaley saw all that in spades in....EJ Manuel. 1 minute ago, DCOrange said: Who cares as long as he's moving fast? Your point was to his athleticism. He doesn't look that athletic. He looks huge and lumbering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodman19 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 I trust a front office with a vast array of scouting reports, data and interviews with former coaches and players and ultimately Allen himself to make a better choice than what I feel based on reading 2-3 small scouting reports by people not working for an NFL team and highlight reel videos. You should all too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 9 minutes ago, DCOrange said: Allen is more in the Carson Wentz mold of athlete, but he'll still be one of the more athletic QBs in the league. And I'm assuming you purposefully used 57% as the cutoff so that people couldn't point to Matt Stafford's 57.1%? You'd be correct, but even for the players that have made it Stafford's is low. In relation Allen's is even lower than that. People want to blame it on the lack of talent around him, but when I watch his games it doesnt stand out to me that thats the case. I see passes thrown into the ground, missing high, completely missing routes altogether with balls being thrown into the middle of the field. He may be great, I am not paid to evaluate football players, but he scares the hell out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, Fadingpain said: Your point was to his athleticism. He doesn't look that athletic. He looks huge and lumbering. Athleticism isn't based on how someone looks. He tested in the 82nd percentile of NFL QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cudi Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 If there are any doubters just check out draftjoshallen.com for full information on the kid. Looks great in shorts and is very tall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCOrange Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 Just now, thenorthremembers said: You'd be correct, but even for the players that have made it Stafford's is low. In relation Allen's is even lower than that. People want to blame it on the lack of talent around him, but when I watch his games it doesnt stand out to me that thats the case. I see passes thrown into the ground, missing high, completely missing routes altogether with balls being thrown into the middle of the field. He may be great, I am not paid to evaluate football players, but he scares the hell out of me. Don't get me wrong; I like him as a prospect, and if Buffalo had finished the year with a top 10 pick, I'd consider using it on him. But all of these trades to potentially move up and use it on such a risky prospect scares me a lot, so I'm with you in that regard. The big question is whether or not Buffalo believes he has the tools to be an accurate passer (mainly the coordination required to understand where he needs to put the ball in order for it to hit a moving target in stride) and simply needs to tweak his mechanics in order to get there, or if they think even with improved footwork, he's incapable. You can tell watching his film that his footwork definitely causes issues; I'm not smart enough to be able to tell if the coordination is there or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman1876 Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 He has a great arm, and decent mobility. His footwork and mechanics are bad resulting in errant throws. Maybe he'll be the first QB in 30 years who never posted a 60% and still pans out but I don't like those odds. On top of that how do you think he will progress when we start him day one and his bad mechanics and footwork result in multiple bad games? maybe it won't effect him but maybe it will, happens all the time. In the end hes got huge bust potential and we are a team that is not built to help him avoid being a bust (competent starter and allowing him to sit). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 1 minute ago, DCOrange said: Don't get me wrong; I like him as a prospect, and if Buffalo had finished the year with a top 10 pick, I'd consider using it on him. But all of these trades to potentially move up and use it on such a risky prospect scares me a lot, so I'm with you in that regard. The big question is whether or not Buffalo believes he has the tools to be an accurate passer (mainly the coordination required to understand where he needs to put the ball in order for it to hit a moving target in stride) and simply needs to tweak his mechanics in order to get there, or if they think even with improved footwork, he's incapable. You can tell watching his film that his footwork definitely causes issues; I'm not smart enough to be able to tell if the coordination is there or not. I agree. I just prefer for them to wait for the 4th round to get developmental guys. I generally hope the Bills scout well enough to get starters in rounds 1-3, especially with the roster not being that deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 4 hours ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said: Yes, it is called nepotism. There are probably several people on this board who would be better scouts, GM's and coaches than a lot of people in the NFL, if they had the time to devote their life to it as a career. Lots and lots of people who are in the NFL fraternity are there because of who they know. If the NFL was filled with the most qualified/knowledgeable people, every team would have been running their team like the Eagles are now 10-15 years ago. The fact that the Eagles in 2017 were the first team to put the numbers into practice on the field, should tell you all you need to know about what an old boys network the NFL is. The data has been sitting out there for over a decade for everyone to see and yet only one team has taken advantage of the numbers. I honestly think there are many Madden players who would be much, much better game managers than almost all NFL coaches. People joke about Madden but is by far the best simulation of a real NFL game and Madden players who have simulated situations thousands of times have a much better understanding of when and when not to go for it. Talk about hyperbole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEraBills Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 9 minutes ago, Woodman19 said: I trust a front office with a vast array of scouting reports, data and interviews with former coaches and players and ultimately Allen himself to make a better choice than what I feel based on reading 2-3 small scouting reports by people not working for an NFL team and highlight reel videos. You should all too. I do too and reading the majority of them they are consistent on some things about Allen: 1) Strong Arm 2) Inaccurate 3) Mechanical Issues 4) High Ceiling 5) Is nowhere near ready and will need to sit and learn For these reasons 2, 3, and 5 there is just no way I can get on board with the Bills trading away all of their draft capital and drafting him. It'll be a massive disappointment for me. We have placed ourselves in a situation where we need someone to be able to play if not day 1 then pretty soon after that. I just think if we draft Allen he's going to be set up to fail. If he went to a team like the Steelers where he could sit behind Ben for a year or two or even the Browns to sit behind Taylor for a year or two or even three then I think it's going to be more beneficial for him going forward. Our situation is just not conducive for Allen's success IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 While many teams will rightfully worry about his less-than-desirable completion percentage (among other things) and will downgrade him a not even being first-round worthy at all, there will be other teams that gush over his physical traits who believe that they have the coaching staff in place to mold and groom him into being an elite QB. It just takes one team in this latter camp to potentially over-draft Allen. That is why he will be a top 10 -- and probably a top 5 -- pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17 Josh Allen Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Batman1876 said: He has a great arm, and decent mobility. His footwork and mechanics are bad resulting in errant throws. Maybe he'll be the first QB in 30 years who never posted a 60% and still pans out but I don't like those odds. On top of that how do you think he will progress when we start him day one and his bad mechanics and footwork result in multiple bad games? maybe it won't effect him but maybe it will, happens all the time. In the end hes got huge bust potential and we are a team that is not built to help him avoid being a bust (competent starter and allowing him to sit). You forgetting Jim Kelly had a 55.6 carrer completion percentage in college and had a injured shoulder to boot. matt Stafford had 57.1 completion percentage in College and went 1st over all. kelly is in the Hall Of fame and stafford could end up there to. the Has John Elway type arm and he is mobile when he want to be. But also a pure pocket passer. Your getting Big Ben on steroids. he is build like a tree trunk and can sling it 80 yards. This guy needs some coaching and to play with better players in front of him. Will look back and say how did we pass on this guy, he is that good jim kelly college stats middle of the first round pick https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jim-kelly-2.html matt staffords stats number 1 over all pick https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/matthew-stafford-1.html Edited March 14, 2018 by Thurmanator 12074 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mopreme Posted March 14, 2018 Share Posted March 14, 2018 (edited) You cannot teach size. Josh Allen should be the guy. Remember Big Ben? Wentz clone. Allen had limited talent at Wyoming. Look what he did with Talent at the senior bowl. He was the best qb at the combine. Bills need to stay clear form the Cali boys. My second choice would be Mayfield. Former walk on who prospered and now is a potential franchise guy. Great attitude and a winner. Edited March 14, 2018 by Mopreme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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