Won't anyone think of the poor, sensitive Lawful Gun Owner?

[/dev/null]

6 hours ago, Paulus said:

Old mem'

Wasn't Vegas dude a Bernie Bro?

 

 

Then there was the attempted mass assassination of Republican Congresscritters by a Leftist. 

 

That news cycle went from wondering if that would affect Republican stance on guns, to the revelation the shooter was a Lefty, to one of the Capital police injured was a black lesbian, then back to RussiaRussiaRussia!!!

[LA Grant]

6 minutes ago, /dev/null said:

 

Then there was the attempted mass assassination of Republican Congresscritters by a Leftist. 

 

That news cycle went from wondering if that would affect Republican stance on guns, to the revelation the shooter was a Lefty, to one of the Capital police injured was a black lesbian, then back to RussiaRussiaRussia!!!

 

Oy, don't post dumb memes. https://www.snopes.com/democrat-shooters-list/

 

Also please stop electing people who get their information from dumb memes http://thehill.com/homenews/house/374941-gop-lawmaker-many-mass-shooters-end-up-being-democrats 

 

<from the back of the house> Background cheeeeeeecks http://www.chicagotribune.com/g00/news/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-mass-shootings-video-games-politics-0917-story.html?i10c.encReferrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8%3D&i10c.ua=1&i10c.dv=13

 

 

Edited February 27, 2018 by LA Grant

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

52 minutes ago, LA Grant said:

 

Oy, don't post dumb memes. https://www.snopes.com/democrat-shooters-list/

 

 

 

snopes

 

[LA Grant]

30 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

snopes

 

 

 

you, smart: "snopes "

 

snopes, dumb:

 

Sources:

Montagne, Renee.   “Who Was John Wilkes Booth Before He Became Lincoln’s Assassin?”
    NPR.   15 April 2015.

Hermann, Peter, Noah.   “‘Navy Yard Shooter Aaron Alexis Driven by Delusions.”
    Washington Post.   25 September 2013.

Rothman, Noah.   “‘He Was More of a Liberal Type’: CNN Guest Identifies Aaron Alexis as Having ‘Liked’ Obama Admin.”
    Mediate.   17 September 2013.

Reuters.   “Connecticut Gunman had Large Weapons Cache.”
    28 March 2013.

Tampa Bay Times.   “Frustrating Search for Newtown, Conn., Shooter Adam Lanza’s Motive.”
    24 December 2012.

Walsh, Paul.   “Gunman Lost His Job, Then Opened Fire, Killing 5.”
    Star Tribune.   29 September 2012.

Silverman, Craig.   “ABC News, Breitbart Fall Short in Owning Up to Mistakes on Colorado Theater Shooter.”
    Poynter.   20 July 2012.

Condon, Stephanie.   “Jared Lee Loughner a Registered Independent; Didn’t Vote in 2010.”
    CBS News.   11 January 2011.

Fader, Carole.   “Fact Check: Email was Wrong About Recent Mass Killers Being Liberals.”
    The Florida Times-Union.   14 March 2013.

USA Today.   “Plant Gunman ‘Mad at the World’.”
    7 August 2003.

Ross, Brian.   “Lockheed Workplace Murders Targeted Blacks.”
    ABC News.   12 May 2005.

Sanger, David.   “Officer Shoots Armed Man Near White House Fence.”
    New York Times.   8 February 2001.

CBS News.   “Who is Pickett.”
    7 February 2001.

Arter, Melanie.   “White House Shooter Sued the IRS.”
    CSN News.   7 July 2008.

Biema, David.   “Terror in the Sanctuary.”
    Time.   20 September 1999.

Kolker, Claudia.   “Texas Gunman Tied to Hate Groups; Writings Show Persecution Feelings.”
    LA Times.   18 September 1999.

New York Times.   “6 Die in Texas Office Shooting.”
    4 April 1995.

Chin, Paula.   “A Texas Massacre.”
    People.   4 November 1991.

Smothers, Ronald.   “Hazy Records Helped Florida Gunman Buy Arms.”
    New York Times.   20 June 1990.

Associated Press.   “Car Repossessed, He Kills 7 : Gunman a Suicide After Rampage in Jacksonville”
    18 June 1990.

Lamar, Jacob.   “Crazy Pat’s Revenge.”
    Time.   24 June 2001.

Bovsun, Mara.   “Mailman Massacre: 14 Die After Patrick Sherrill ‘Goes Postal’ in 1986 Shootings.”
    New York Post.   15 August 2010.

Houseman, Martin.   “Mass Murderer James Huberty Tried to Get Help From…”
    UPI.   2 August 1984.

Brown, Ronald.   “Dying on the Job: Murder and Mayhem in the American Workplace.”
    Rowman & Littlefield Publishers.   15 November 2012.

Newsweek.   “John W. Hinckley Jr.: Inside the Mind of Ronald Reagan’s Would-Be Assassin.”
    27 July 2016.

Parker, Ryan.   “Flashback: What John Hinckley Jr. Wrote to Jodie Foster Before He Shot Ronald Reagan.”
    The Hollywood Reporter.   27 July 2016.

Conradarens, John.   “The Leftists are the Haters and Assassins. Let’s Look at History, Shall We?”
    The Red State.   28 March 2010.

Breslow, Jason.   “8 Things You May Not Know About Lee Harvey Oswald.”
    PBS.   19 November 2013.

Resnick, Brian.   “This Is the Brain that Shot President James Garfield.”
    The Atlantic.   4 October 2015.

Biography.   “John Wilkes Booth.”
    Retrieved 16 June 2017.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Look at the shitlord who hasn't done his research on snopes.

 

[DC Tom]

1 hour ago, joesixpack said:

 

snopes

 

 

The article's mostly correct, despite being obviously designed to mislead the soft-headed like Grant.

 

Mostly it demonstrates that shooters are too crazy to have a mainstream affiliation.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, DC Tom said:

 

The article's mostly correct, despite being obviously designed to mislead the soft-headed like Grant.

 

Mostly it demonstrates that shooters are too crazy to have a mainstream affiliation.

 

I'm more commenting on the dubious nature of snopes, but that's fair.

 

[boyst]

10 hours ago, LA Grant said:

 

Okay. You want me to get to know you & you want to get to know me? Well, that is lovely, a wonderful gesture of friendship. It's not reflected well in this thread but generally I am friendly & affable. It doesn't matter to me if you believe that or not because I don't want to get to know you aside from the content of our posts here. Perhaps in another thread, you share a different side of yourself that we connect on — great. We can get to know each other that way. 

 

Here's the thing. This isn't the place for it. At the very least, not this thread, and not on page 20 after everything that preceded it. As they say on reality shows, "I'm not here to make friends." (It used to be unseemly to quote reality stars but then again now they get elected to Commander in Chief). 

 

I'm fine being the bad guy here. I accepted it walking in, I don't care, I can take it, it's fine. I see how "the left" is regarded on PPP; it's why I created this thread, rather than hijacking another one. I wanted the position to be specific & clear from the beginning. However. I'm not here to insult anyone personally, or any poster specifically — I will certainly return in kind. I'm not going to take crap without returning it. 

 

The original post specifically calls out "sensitive lawful gun owners," which is a label you can choose to ascribe to yourself, or choose not to. I'm posting it here because I suspected I'd find some that fit that label. I want them to know they are part of the problem and need to be part of the solution. They need to stop avoiding it. 

 

The reasons we do nothing are BS. We have to stop this conflation of "restrictions" and "bans," the various other conflations & dishonest arguments against changing gun laws in any way. The bottom line is that if we want to prevent mass shootings, the Lawful Gun Owners will need to accept a degree of added inconvenience into their lives, in some way. I am tired as hell of accepting "do nothing" as the solution.

"Don't politicize the tragedy" doesn't make sense for this reason. In our society, everything is politicized. There is no avoiding it. The tragedy is politics. It's politics because, for a variety of reasons, we can't agree on action.

 

When I was growing up, Republicans/conservatives were the party of "personal responsibility." It's been a looong time since the Republicans have been the party of personal responsibility, but it's disappointing that conservatives, as people, have also lost any sight of it. Lawful Gun Owners need to step up and take some responsibility to protect *(!#^)*( children and innocent people. They are not choosing to die for your right to own a gun. Yet often the same people will also tell you how important it is to ban abortion, empathizing with the fetus that they didn't choose to die. Or, the right won't support universal healthcare but will always blame "mental health" after shootings. It's never their fault, and never their responsibility. FOR ANYTHING, it seems. The amount of dishonesty, punting, and excuse-making from the right is often infuriating — but the carnage that has resulted from our collective laziness, for no better reason than an inability to address lax gun laws, is so dystopian and so preventable, that to do nothing is as much a political act as doing anything. 

 

I mentioned in another thread growing up with guns around. I mostly do have sympathy or empathy for gun owners. I'm not a military/hunting hobbyist so I don't pretend to be an expert, but I mostly understand or try to understand where they're coming from. As mentioned before, I think "ban" is wrong. I get why the AR-15 is popular, it's versatile, good for the price, I see that. I want it to be harder for some idiot psycho 18-year-old kid in Florida to get, or some psycho 60-year-old radical in Pennsylvania. It shouldn't only come down to "prior convictions" at the point of sale. Guns are too heavy of a responsibility to be given out so lightly. F*** the NRA, it's not your inalienable right to never be inconvenienced in acquiring an arm.

 

Universal background checks/regulation/tests, etc., have widespread voter support and have for years. They are not on the books because of a number of reasons. One of the major reasons is the NRA quite literally owns a fair amount of our government. Y'know, if you're looking for conspiracy theories, "money in government" might be one to consider instead of fixating on Hillary & Soros doing some kind of Mission Impossible plan to take away Joe Schmo's hunting rifles.

 

How do we lessen the NRA's control? Voting out Reps & Senators who take their money would be one. Another powerful one would be if Lawful Gun Owners stood up to them a little more, instead of just quoting their president. They have a vested interest in keeping their base scared, pissed, agitated. It benefits the gun industry tremendously. What I want — what most people want — are stronger controls across the board, more effort in weeding out the 'bad guys' from the 'good guys.'  However, the 'good guys' are always sticking up for the 'bad guys' because the NRA has their members convinced that any regulations on guns is an apocalyptic assault on their individual rights & lives. It's madness.
 

When Tasker compares my tactics to Saul Alinsky, he's not necessarily wrong. I read up on him more this afternoon, since I was only vaguely aware of him, mostly as his status as a right-wing talking point 'boogeyman' from Rush/Glenn, because Obama & Hillary had cited him as an influence. Well, I can see why. He seems fairly cool to me, lol. I agree with the idea that in our society, change does not come easy. Nobody wants to change. It can only come from agitation. If problems were solved by asking nicely, well... yeah, that'd be a better world, but it's not the one we live in. 

 

In conclusion: I am tired. I'm not so crazy that I'm expecting to get anything out of this. I'm not expecting to see messages of "oh wow you're so right" — but as someone who sometimes lurks on boards, I still think it's important to make the case even if there's not an immediate return. Who knows who you're reaching.

 

Honestly, all I've done is waste my damn week arguing with strangers on the internet because I still have this misguided optimism that people are ultimately reasonable creatures. That optimism dies a bit every time I argue with the overwhelming cynicism of NRArs, a group who only have optimism in things instead of people, though. "So I got that goin' for me, which is nice."

 

Again, though, it should not be about me— I'm a ghost. It's about making a point to people who need to hear it who really don't want to hear it. If my original post is mocking you, that's up to you. It doesn't need to be. But to anyone who feels it is them, I'm happy to tell them: "f*** you, grow up."

 

 

So now you're going to tell me in full where you're coming from on guns, right, Rhino? lol 

 

EDIT — Some reading:

 

Here is the Wikipedia article for the solution I keep advocating for. ("Wikipedia? That's not a real--") You can independently verify all of the sources with the links at the bottom. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_background_check

 

From CNN (fake news): Universal background checks are being proposed right now. Not for the first time. Along with improving criminal background check laws. There are also weaker measures backed by the NRA which may pass instead, and then be cited down the line as why gun control doesn't work because they're useless half-measures. Schumer's is the only proposal that makes sense.   https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/26/politics/chuck-schumer-background-checks-parkland/index.html

 

But here are a list of the obstacles to action, also from CNN (fake news) https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/politics/congress-obstacles-gun-law-control/index.html

 

 

 

 

You write all of that and it was not worth it because based on your posting history people know you suck.

 

Why did you waste your time?

[IDBillzFan]

46 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

 

I'm more commenting on the dubious nature of snopes, but that's fair.

 

 

At least it wasn't another VOX link. 

[row_33]

25 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

You write all of that and it was not worth it because based on your posting history people know you suck.

 

Why did you waste your time?

 

wish the ignore function didn't copy and paste his work in reply...

 

keep up the good work Boyst62...

 

 

[B-Man]

Drama King teen David Hogg plans to stay home.
 

Parkland school shooting survivor David Hogg says he will not return to Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School until more gun control is passed.

Hogg made the comments Sunday during a gun control rally held at Temple B’nai Abraham in Livingston, New Jersey.

 

The New York Daily News reports that Hogg said, “I’m not going back to school on Wednesday until one bill is passed.” He did not specify which law he wants most, only that he is not going back until at least one law garners the support of lawmakers.

[row_33]

i wouldn't want to go back if i saw the carnage and survived, a transfer would be requested, maybe do some volunteer work for the rest of the semester....

 

 

[Tiberius]

John Wilkes Booth was a full blown racist and thats why he shot Lincoln 

[Justice]

Like I’ve always said, the gun is only dangerous when you have ammo. If I were in charge here’s what I’ll do:

 

1. first thing I’d do is make it much more difficult to purchase a weapon. Background checks and even a psychological test must be done before you can purchase a gun. No more easy access to any type of gun. Rifles and AR-15s type guns must be as difficult to get as handguns. The gun shows and private sales must go through the same loops that any other gun store will have to go through. 

 

2. Once you pass through step one you get a registered gun owners license and you will have to renew it every year and go through those background checks and psychological tests all over again. 

 

3. Can’t buy ammo without a license. At the bare minimum this will make it much harder for the criminals to get their hands on ammo. They might think twice about practicing their aim if the ammo is harder to get making them much less efficient at hitting their target. 

 

I’m sure you guys will poke holes in this plan and that’s why we have these discussions. Like I said before, I’m uneducated when it comes to guns. Just throwing out ideas. 

Edited February 27, 2018 by Justice

[row_33]

15 minutes ago, Justice said:

Like I’ve always said, the gun is only dangerous when you have ammo. If I were in charge here’s what I’ll do:

 

1. first thing I’d do is make it much more difficult to purchase a weapon. Background checks and even a psychological test must be done before you can purchase a gun. No more easy access to any type of gun. Rifles and AR-15s type guns must be as difficult to get as handguns. The gun shows and private sales must go through the same loops that any other gun store will have to go through. 

 

2. Once you pass through step one you get a registered gun owners license and you will have to renew it every year and go through those background checks and psychological tests all over again. 

 

3. Can’t buy ammo without a license. At the bare minimum this will make it much harder for the criminals to get their hands on ammo. They might think twice about practicing their aim if the ammo is harder to get making them much less efficient at hitting their target. 

 

I’m sure you guys will poke holes in this plan and that’s why we have these discussions. Like I said before, I’m uneducated when it comes to guns. Just throwing out ideas. 

 

The horse is well out of the barn and on the planet Jupiter in it's galloping by this point in time...

 

Your views have been expressed a billion, maybe a trillion times, but they are now besides the point.

 

(even when correct...)

 

 

[Dante]

On 2/22/2018 at 5:20 AM, KW95 said:

 

 Sadly, you might be a great guy and a fellow Bills fan, but for me, you seem like the moron.

 

I think the big question is:  BAN THE MILITARY WEAPONS.  Why even have them?  

 

No one deserves being a parent of one of the girls who got shot and couldn't be identified because the damage to her body and face was so bad.  

 

AMERICA THE GREAT!

 

 

 

 

My question is why wasn't this guy id'ed as a kook well before any of this happened? The gun is just a method. That's all. What's scarier is that people like this exist. We should be asking how did they get like this? How can they be profiled and stopped? That's the important problem to solve. I'm sure our friends at the ACLU will do their best to end any of that kind of talk though.

[Tiberius]

1 minute ago, Dante said:

My question is why wasn't this guy id'ed as a kook well before any of this happened? The gun is just a method. That's all. What's scarier is that people like this exist. We should be asking how did they get like this? How can they be profiled and stopped? That's the important problem to solve. I'm sure our friends at the ACLU will do their best to end any of that kind of talk though.

He actually had never been arrested, even if many people were complaining about him he had never done anything violent before. 

 

Happy with Kane trade? 

[Gary M]

39 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

He actually had never been arrested,

 

But likely should have been.

 

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2018/02/incompetence_wasnt_the_problem_in_broward_county.html#.WpSKOXDBPgE.twitter

[Dante]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

He actually had never been arrested, even if many people were complaining about him he had never done anything violent before. 

 

Happy with Kane trade? 

I think so. He can be good if he wants to play. Sharks got him for not much so I guess nothing to lose? I was hoping for a mega deal to land Taveras but that never happened. 

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

He actually had never been arrested, even if many people were complaining about him he had never done anything violent before. 

 

Happy with Kane trade? 

But don't you think the cause of this is the larger, more frightening issue? Is it drugs, mental illness, broken families?? I don't know but this is the bigger societal problem that has to be seriously looked at. It's like why cure cancer? Isn't it better to find out what's causing it? If it's bad water lets address it. If it's gmo shitey food lets address that.

[LA Grant]

5 hours ago, Justice said:

Like I’ve always said, the gun is only dangerous when you have ammo. If I were in charge here’s what I’ll do:

 

1. first thing I’d do is make it much more difficult to purchase a weapon. Background checks and even a psychological test must be done before you can purchase a gun. No more easy access to any type of gun. Rifles and AR-15s type guns must be as difficult to get as handguns. The gun shows and private sales must go through the same loops that any other gun store will have to go through. 

 

2. Once you pass through step one you get a registered gun owners license and you will have to renew it every year and go through those background checks and psychological tests all over again. 

 

3. Can’t buy ammo without a license. At the bare minimum this will make it much harder for the criminals to get their hands on ammo. They might think twice about practicing their aim if the ammo is harder to get making them much less efficient at hitting their target. 

 

I’m sure you guys will poke holes in this plan and that’s why we have these discussions. Like I said before, I’m uneducated when it comes to guns. Just throwing out ideas. 

 

This isn't uneducated. These are the common sense reforms that most of us support. The only key thing you left out is that we also need to stop needlessly preventing additional research on the issue from the CDC.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/11/06/opinion/how-to-reduce-shootings.html

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/10/upshot/How-to-Prevent-Gun-Deaths-The-Views-of-Experts-and-the-Public.html

http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/375797-key-lawmaker-unlikely-congress-lifts-cdc-gun-research-limits