SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: Wait mostly in garbage time? Are you high? They had the lead with 8 minutes to go and he had almost 500 yards then and all 3 TDs. so last year they win and he leads the team to 34 points but again.. it wasn't him it was some lucky fairy did all that. your biased hatred is apparent.. Yet poor Tommy had some horrible horrible passes. Beyond the OOB throwaways he was throwing to invisible players quite a few times. It was so bad his daughter was crying, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Brady is the best ever and it isn’t that close. I wish that he wasn’t but you put his resume next to anyone else and he blows it out of the water. I agree with your judgment. What many people don't consider when judging Brady is that the talent level he is working with isn't as elite as some of the other great qbs worked with. No doubt that Gronk is a HOF TE but the receiver corps and backfield group he has worked with haven't been of the highest level. His extended excellence is another reason why I think he is the best of the best. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodneykm Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 9 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: Marino Montana Manning That's my top3 After that it gets muddy to me Respect your opinion, for sure. If I'm picking top 3 of all time it goes like this. Brady Montana Coin flip between Marino and Peyton. I'd probably lean towards Peyton though if pressed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearLess Price Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 I cant crown Brady until we see him take a team to the playoffs without Bellicheck and the pats. If Brasy goes to another team and takes them to a deep playoff run then yea. Official undebatable Goat. Right now the Bellicheck crutch theory is strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 9 minutes ago, May Day 10 said: I respect that, and don't think you're wrong.... and I realize Im likely in the minority.... but I put a lot more stock in the team and coaching. I place much more of the Patriots' success at the feet of Belichick. Brady is great cerebrally to run the offense and make excellent snap decisions and throws, but without the Patriots, I don't think he sniffs the "team accolades" that he gets with the Patriots, which is what is used to put him over the top. Elway, Manning, and Marino, I thought were much better pure QBs who dealt with much more flawed teams and coaches, which prevented them obtaining the gaudy team accomplishments. Brady was lucky, he had the talent but was raw when he came to NE. BB the first couple of years kept the game simple a more run first and don't screw it up game plan. By 2003 the training wheels were off and Brady was well Brady. Marino - had more talent but when I watched his games. I always felt he had an amazing quick release but when he got challenged by good to great D he crumbled. Unlike Brady or Montana he didn't find a way to succeed. (Hell Brady against the Broncos D a few years back was hit like a pinyatta but he still had his team in position to tie if it wasn't for a missed Point after) Manning - I don't think we are disagreeing much on him. I think the Colts did him a huge disservice. Elway -- He didn't elevate his team up to championship caliber it was the RB the two years they won it. Mind you I always disliked Elway so may be biased here.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 8 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said: Wait mostly in garbage time? Are you high? They had the lead with 8 minutes to go and he had almost 500 yards then and all 3 TDs. so last year they win and he leads the team to 34 points but again.. it wasn't him it was some lucky fairy did all that. your biased hatred is apparent.. I thought I left enough breadcrumbs on that one. I would suggest the bigger problem here is you are in mourning and cannot see things clearly. I've been there, so no hard feelings. However-- it's patently offensive to me that you would imply I am a pothead at this stage of my life. I think YOU'RE the high one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 11 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Brady is the best ever and it isn’t that close. I wish that he wasn’t but you put his resume next to anyone else and he blows it out of the water. It's not even a conversation on Brady being the best ever. He's not. Brady is the best of the 21c. He's the best of his generation. He is not the best ever. 3 minutes ago, FearLess Price said: I cant crown Brady until we see him take a team to the playoffs without Bellicheck and the pats. If Brasy goes to another team and takes them to a deep playoff run then yea. Official undebatable Goat. Right now the Bellicheck crutch theory is strong. Honestly has Brady every won the SB? Has he ever been on the field when the Pats won? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Yet poor Tommy had some horrible horrible passes. Beyond the OOB throwaways he was throwing to invisible players quite a few times. It was so bad his daughter was crying, Lmao yes and he was facing the number one D in the NFL And scored 33 points on them. Yes he played so horribly.. wow! Just wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, CuddyDark said: It's not even a conversation on Brady being the best ever. He's not. Brady is the best of the 21c. He's the best of his generation. He is not the best ever. Whom do you think is better in another generation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said: I thought I left enough breadcrumbs on that one. I would suggest the bigger problem here is you are in mourning and cannot see things clearly. I've been there, so no hard feelings. However-- it's patently offensive to me that you would imply I am a pothead at this stage of my life. I think YOU'RE the high one. lol wasn't implying you were a pot head.. I mean it could have been a contact High! And bread crumbs for what? A bold face lie? Come on man! He drops an over the shoulder pass which is a difficult pass catch for anyone and people like "oh he was awful" it wasn't him the D stunk so bad mars could smell them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, CuddyDark said: It's not even a conversation on Brady being the best ever. He's not. Brady is the best of the 21c. He's the best of his generation. He is not the best ever. Honestly has Brady every won the SB? Has he ever been on the field when the Pats won? Really?!? Who else played in 8 Super Bowls? Who won 5? Who is going to be top 2 in yards and TDs all-time? Only a few guys have won 3 MVPs as well. I hate the guy but it indisputable. Anyone that thinks otherwise is letting their disdain for him cloud their judgement. Edited February 5, 2018 by Kirby Jackson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, JohnC said: Whom do you think is better in another generation? If you change the rules so that the offense is scoring more. So that the WR and QB of this generation after the rules changes are the ALL Time leaders, how can you say a player who's benefiting from the changes is better than players who played against tougher defenses and tougher defensive rules? I'd take half the HOF QB's before the rule changes to be better than Brady in this new NFL. 3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Really?!? Who else played in 8 Super Bowls? Who won 5? Who is going to be top 2 in yards and TDs all-time? Only a few guys have won 3 MVPs as well. I hate the guy but it indisputable. Anyone that thinks otherwise isn’t letting their disdain for him cloud their judgement. They changed the rules so that the stats favor players in this generation so citing stats is ridiculous. Also Every team with a QB centric team from the last century could do what the Pats are doing. The game is easier for QB's and offense as a whole. It's not even comparable to the players from the last century. Edited February 5, 2018 by CuddyDark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, rodneykm said: Respect your opinion, for sure. If I'm picking top 3 of all time it goes like this. Brady Montana Coin flip between Marino and Peyton. I'd probably lean towards Peyton though if pressed. Very fair. I drop Brady a few pegs because of the cheating (caught twice, how many times not?), all the questionable calls the pats get, and the belichick /stacked team connection (this knocks Montana a bit too) I honestly think that it's impossible to address comparing QBs from different eras due to game/rule changes, as well as conditioning/training/medical techniques that help prolong careers. Look at basketball, Wilt Chamberlain was an athletic freak, and very talented at bball, but he was also almost always the biggest guy out there, they had different goal tending and defensive rules, and they used to lob inbounds over the backboard to him (not legal now), so it's impossible. Jordan didn't have to face the zone defenses LeBron does, LeBron doesn't have to face the hand checking on defense Jordan did. In football, there are rule changes every year, mostly that benefit offensive players/QBs. That's why there are so many 4000+ and 5000+ yard seasons now. I put Manning up top because he was basically the offensive coordinator and QB at the same time. He called his own plays and audibles constantly. Marino had a trash team forever, the dude was legit, I couldn't imagine the numbers he'd put up today, but I think he was the best ever, again, personal opinion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, CuddyDark said: If you change the rules so that the offense is scoring more. So that the WR and QB of this generation after the rules changes are the ALL Time leaders, how can you say a player who's benefiting from the changes is better than players who played against tougher defenses and tougher defensive rules? I'd take half the HOF QB's before the rule changes to be better than Brady in this new NFL. The rule changes certainly effect his passing totals. His 8 Super Bowls and 5 wins separate him from the others still. He has both the numbers and the wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Really?!? Who else played in 8 Super Bowls? Who won 5? Who is going to be top 2 in yards and TDs all-time? Only a few guys have won 3 MVPs as well. I hate the guy but it indisputable. Anyone that thinks otherwise isn’t letting their disdain for him cloud their judgement. Finally, a topic we can agree on. I hate the bastard and wish someone would snap a leg of his a-la theisman. But it's silliness to say he's not the best ever. He's almost old as ME and he's out there putting up 500 yards 3 TD and 0 INT in the super bowl. That's like a quarter of a season for Tyrod Taylor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, CuddyDark said: If you change the rules so that the offense is scoring more. So that the WR and QB of this generation after the rules changes are the ALL Time leaders, how can you say a player who's benefiting from the changes is better than players who played against tougher defenses and tougher defensive rules? I'd take half the HOF QB's before the rule changes to be better than Brady in this new NFL. They changed the rules so that the stats favor players in this generation so siting stats is ridiculous. Also Every team with a QB centric team from the last century could do what the Pats are doing. The game is easier for QB's and offense as a whole. It's not even comparable to the players from the last century. Okay though so throw out the stats (which is crazy but go ahead). How many QBs have won 5, played in 8 and won 3 MVPs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 9 hours ago, BuffaloRush said: I disagree completely. He has 3 losses in the Super Bowl sure - but he also has 5 victories. Getting to 1 Super Bowl is pretty challenging, The Patriots made it to 8 Super Bowls in 16 years - 50% of the time is unreal. Sorry but I don't buy the Montana is better than Brady excuse. Look at the 5-7 Pro Bowl players Montana consistently had on offense. Outside of Randy Moss for a few years, Brady really never played with All-Pros. But he did elevate the talent around him. Sorry but he's still the GOAT. The fact that Matt Patricia's ****ty defense couldn't stop Nick Foles should not change it Perfect post. I grew in Nor Cal during the Montana era, and I wasn't a Niner fan, but I could still appreciate greatness. Same goes with Brady. He threw for 505 yards and 3 TDs after losing his top WR early and he is 40 years old! And people want to challenge HIS legacy over the loss? He even led a TD drive like he always does to take the lead late and put the pressure on Foles. Sorry, and I get Bills fans don't like him or want to admit this, but Brady is the GOAT. Montana had Rice his whole career as well as guys like Taylor, great TE's, Craig, and HOF players on his Defense too. And he still only got to 4 SB's compared to Brady's 8 and Joe was a shell of himself at end of his career where an older than him Brady is winning MVP of the league at 40 still and just put up 505 yards in the SB. Brady > Montana. They are a very close 1 and 2. Teams WIN or LOSE in the NFL, not individuals. Now if Brady was the reason they lost all 3, then I get it more, but in all 3 cases Brady had great games and the D let the opponent come down and steal the win at end of game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Just now, Kirby Jackson said: The rule changes certainly effect his passing totals. His 8 Super Bowls and 5 wins separate him from the others still. He has both the numbers and the wins. It's cause and effect. Montana doesn't get injured in this new NFL. HOF QB's in the last century would be unstoppable, today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Just now, joesixpack said: Finally, a topic we can agree on. I hate the bastard and wish someone would snap a leg of his a-la theisman. But it's silliness to say he's not the best ever. He's almost old as ME and he's out there putting up 500 yards 3 TD and 0 INT in the super bowl. That's like a quarter of a season for Tyrod Taylor. I get it, Bills fans hate him. It is just asinine to try to make a case for anyone else. He has everything. We should just accept it and hope that he leaves the game sooner than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Kirby Jackson said: Okay though so throw out the stats (which is crazy but go ahead). How many QBs have won 5, played in 8 and won 3 MVPs? His career is effected by the new rules. He can win 5 SB because he's a HOF QB playing in an era made for QB success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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