Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • SDS

      Problems logging in?   11/05/2017

      I know a few people are getting logged out too quickly. I don't have the answer to that yet.   However, one change that occurred is that there is no longer a log in name and a separate display name. The upgrade discarded the log in name and now uses the display name. So, to log in:   Username: <display name> Password: <your password>   If you need to contact me to find out what your display name is use: Contact Us  and we can get things sorted out.
Sign in to follow this  
Buffalo30

Trading down in the draft?

Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, Buffalo30 said:

As I stated, in this scenario they didn't find the right trade partner to move up.  I suggested they find a guy like Bradford or Keenum to play as the bridge QB for next year.  I'm with ya, I want the QB too but sometimes there's just too many QB needy teams that pick ahead of us.  RIght now, the Browns, Giants and Broncos look like they all might draft a QB and they draft 1, 2 and 4 respectively.  The QB thing might not happen this year.  So I say trade down again if they can find a trade partner and try to fill in the majority of the holes.  

They have a nice chunk of change to play with in the offseason as well especially if they ditch Tryod's contract.  They did a nice job of adding Poyer and Hyde who have been pretty darn good in the secondary. I expect we go after a few more free agents this year as they will be letting most of the past regime's players walk in free agency and get their own hand picked players in the building.  This will be a totally different team next year if they can do this offseason well. 

 

Your idea is career suicide for McBeane.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've responded previously in this thread, but not necessarily to the OT.

 

That said, in my opinion and respectfully, enough is enough.  The start must be with a new QB and you must do whatever it possibly takes to get the best QB that you think is the long term future of this team.  Doesn't mean that QB will be the long term future, but that is what you must have to start with after most 18 years of futility at the position.

 

They had hopes for EJ, but I believe those were simply hopes, even if you ask them about it.  They just needed somebody at that point.

 

Our last winning season Kyle Orton's stats projected over 16 games (and I am not saying he was great by any stretch) would have been 4,000 yards passing, 24 TDs and 14 picks.  Man, we need at least that production regardless of any back and forth we do on these boards.  

 

I always liked Tyrod.  However, I need 3,500 yards and 24 or so TDs from him and if the ONLY WAY I get that from him is having the best options at receiver/TE and one of the best OLines in football, then I just don't think he's that guy.

 

We need a change and it should probably come from the best possible option in the draft.

Edited by dollars 2 donuts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the only way the Bills dont draft a QB in the first round is if they can sign Garoppolo in the offseason. He is young enough to sign long term. I think they also need to sign an experienced #1/2 WR in free agency. Then use the draft to add talent and depth. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, BillsfanAZ said:

I think the only way the Bills dont draft a QB in the first round is if they can sign Garoppolo in the offseason. He is young enough to sign long term. I think they also need to sign an experienced #1/2 WR in free agency. Then use the draft to add talent and depth. 

 

 

If they decide not to keep Tyrod as insurance I believe that frees up another 10-12 million in caps space.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

If they decide not to keep Tyrod as insurance I believe that frees up another 10-12 million in caps space.

It is up to the Bills since he is under contract next season but that is a lot of money to be tied up in QB that will most likely not be starting. I think they cut Taylor to free up cap space and give them more options. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, billsfan714 said:

I could see it.    I havent seen any first round mock draft with Baker Mayfield in it.   There is talent past the first round at quarterback.   With the holes on this team, and especially the lines and lbs, I see McBean using all these picks and definetly looking to acquire more.   At G you have Ritchie on his last year and Vlad, who knows where Millier is on this staff but it isnt good.   Cordy and his anke and high salary.....Beane is going to look at that.    DT you may be seeing the end of KW in a Bills uni and you have what Washington.    Big need there.....Lorax is near the end.   Brown is a UFA.     5 picks in 3 rds......yeah were going to need them all and maybe more.

 

 

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2747404-2018-nfl-mock-draft-post-week-13-breakdown

http://draftwire.usatoday.com/2017/11/29/2018-nfl-mock-draft-updated-4-round-projections-after-week-12/3/

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2018-nfl-mock-draft-cowboys-falcons-add-wr-speed-with-ridley-burnett/

 

Three mocks with Mayfield in the first round, all among the first few mocks on a google search for "2018 mock draft". 

 

Mayfield's in plenty of first round mocks.

 

And I know what's coming next from some people on here:  "That guy's an idiot and that guy's never right and the third guy has him in the mid-twenties and he could easily fall." All justifications,  no good arguments. He might easily make the first. Might not but it could easily happen.

 

 

McShay thinks Mayfield will go in the first. Kiper is not sure, says he's on the fringe.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2018/story/_/id/21665021/2018-nfl-draft-primer-mel-kiper-todd-mcshay-answer-25-questions-prospects-rankings-mock-draft

Edited by Thurman#1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, BillsfanAZ said:

It is up to the Bills since he is under contract next season but that is a lot of money to be tied up in QB that will most likely not be starting. I think they cut Taylor to free up cap space and give them more options. 

I'd like to keep Tyrod as insurance, also, but your post makes sense and why he will probably not be here next season.  I'd look for someone like Bradford or Bridgewater to come in and next year.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, joesixpack said:

 

Your idea is career suicide for McBeane.

 

 

 

Yep, we have tried the trade down, ignore the QB position, build the roster up approach.  Do whatever it takes to get the QB you want.  If that means giving up 3 number one picks(the two this year & another one next year) so be it.  I am not even sure if that will be enough but until you have a QB nothing else matters. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well we're movin on up, in the draft.
To find us a QB who's a tough guy.
Movin on up in this draft.
We finally gonna get that piece of the pie

 

TT wont be here so quit bitchin;
Peterman may turn out ot be a thrilll.
Took a whole lotta years just to get up that hill.


Now we're finally gonna be in the big leagues
Getits the Patsies turn to be beat.
As long as we live, it's Bills for me baby
There ain't nothin wrong with that.



I'm a little bored .. weak attempt but not to shaby improvements are encourgaed

Edited by ddaryl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

 

If they decide not to keep Tyrod as insurance I believe that frees up another 10-12 million in caps space.

 

 

$15 million. 

 

Last year they paid him $14.5 mill (base salary plus signing bonus) and $15.5 mill was guaranteed. So $1 mill is guaranteed this year, from his roster bonus. In 2018, his base is $10 mill and roster bonus is $6 mill. So he would cost $16 mill, of which $1 mill is guaranteed.

 

This is from Spotrac and I believe I've interpreted it all correctly, but if I haven't, please somebody correct me.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/tyrod-taylor-7899/

 

It looked all along like it would be very easy to cut him this offseason - if they want to - once he signed the new deal last offseason. That's a lot of cash to save.

Edited by Thurman#1
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Thurman#1 said:

$15 million. 

 

Last year they paid him $14.5 mill (base salary plus signing bonus) and $15.5 mill was guaranteed. So $1 mill is guaranteed this year, from his roster bonus. Base is $10 mill and roster bonus is $6 mill. So he would cost $16 mill, of which $1 mill is guaranteed.

 

This is from Spotrac and I believe I've intepreted it all correctly, but if I haven't, please somebody correct me.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/tyrod-taylor-7899/

 

It looked all along like it would be very easy to cut him this offseason - if they want to - once he signed the new deal last offseason. That's a lot of cash to save.

If you use spotrac's roster manager for 2018 and cut Tyrod it says the savings is $9.45M

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

If you use spotrac's roster manager for 2018 and cut Tyrod it says the savings is $9.45M

 

 

From what I can tell just looking quickly, that's real time. In other words if you cut Tyrod TODAY that's what you'd save on the 2018 cap.

 

Nobody wants to cut him today. If you do, a bunch of his 2017 guaranteed money hits the cap next year.

Edited by Thurman#1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

If you use spotrac's roster manager for 2018 and cut Tyrod it says the savings is $9.45M

 

Can get you 3/4 of the way to a quality receiver or resigning Benjamin, depending upon what you see in possible last 4 games for him.

 

Not to hijack this thread, just a tangent; right now i'm thinking that with our first five picks, considering that we should expect them to contribute, QB, DL, WR, OL, LB in no particular order, other than QB being first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New GMs inheriting a bad to mediocre team prioritize taking a QB because it's typically the main reason a team isn't successful. But not in Buffalo, where GMs found every reason not to take one for years.

 

McBeane know this team is nowhere right now at QB.  TT, albeit without knowing his top 2 wideouts, has proven he's not the guy. And if the HC and GM want to be around for any length of time, they'll get their guy this year.

 

The fastest way to being a solid team is acquiring the QB and refusing to take one or taking one out of sheer need isn't the way to do it.

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

From what I can tell just looking quickly, that's real time. In other words if you cut Tyrod TODAY that's what you'd save on the 2018 cap.

Nobody wants to cut him today. If you do, a bunch of his 2017 guaranteed money hits the cap next year.

No, cutting him now is what happens when you manage the 2017 roster instead of the 2018 roster, which is a -$1M savings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, joesixpack said:

 

Your idea is career suicide for McBeane.

 

The thing is, they might not have a choice.  Look at the QB needy teams at the top of the draft this year.  Cleveland, the Giants, Denver, Arizona is ahead of us, the Jets are ahead...who knows is we even have a chance at a QB.  We can all sit here and say let's trade up let's trade up but if the QBs aren't there by the time we can trade...what do you do?  That's what I proposed in this.  If the Giants stay at number 2 in the draft, Darnold and Rosen could be off the board with the top two picks.  Then, would you really want to give up mulitple picks for Mayfield or Allen at this point?  That's up to you.  I say, restock the draft picks for next year if they don't get into that top two conversation and fill out the rest of the roster as best they can.  Maybe they could bring in a guy like Case Keenum or Bradford to bridge the gap.  

 

The QBs have to be available too.  

 

BTW. I'm all for trading up if that option is available.  However, I'm not trading multiple picks for Mayfield or Allen.  Not worth it to me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

The thing is, they might not have a choice.  Look at the QB needy teams at the top of the draft this year.  Cleveland, the Giants, Denver, Arizona is ahead of us, the Jets are ahead...who knows is we even have a chance at a QB.  We can all sit here and say let's trade up let's trade up but if the QBs aren't there by the time we can trade...what do you do?  That's what I proposed in this.  If the Giants stay at number 2 in the draft, Darnold and Rosen could be off the board with the top two picks.  Then, would you really want to give up mulitple picks for Mayfield or Allen at this point?  That's up to you.  I say, restock the draft picks for next year if they don't get into that top two conversation and fill out the rest of the roster as best they can.  Maybe they could bring in a guy like Case Keenum or Bradford to bridge the gap.  

 

The QBs have to be available too.  

 

BTW. I'm all for trading up if that option is available.  However, I'm not trading multiple picks for Mayfield or Allen.  Not worth it to me

 

And in the meantime we're doomed to another year of tryhard.

 

I think I'd rather chew on a red-hot piece of steel.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Da webster guy said:

Draft talk during the season is bad luck.   This is what led to wide right, homerun throwback, Robert Woods departure, Dennison getting hired, and Gronk committing a felony after the whistle.   

At this point just keep rooting against KC, who might actually be giving us a higher draft pick than our own this spring.

Honestly, I couldn't give a crap if it's bad luck.  I'd rather do my due diligence then believe in some superstition

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we need to select the BPA of need at each of our selection spots.

 

The more you trade down, the more you risk on losing more talented players

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, joesixpack said:

 

And in the meantime we're doomed to another year of tryhard.

 

I think I'd rather chew on a red-hot piece of steel.

 

We will see how the dominoes fall though.  If San Fran jumps back up into the 2nd pick...we are in business.  I think they'd want to look to get as many picks as possible to surround Jimmy g with talent.  Seeing that there isn't a lot of top wide receivers or offensive lineman in the class...they should be the target.  Just need the Giants to win

1 minute ago, Canadian Bills Fan said:

I think we need to select the BPA of need at each of our selection spots.

 

The more you trade down, the more you risk on losing more talented players

We ended up with Tre White after we traded down last year...and this year, it's not like the top talent in the class is really really special.  By the time we pick in the teens, it'll be around the same type of player we could get later in the first.  

 

The trade partner must be there though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why are people talking about Bradford or Bridgewater?  Why??  These guys are broken. 

 

Keenum is probably going to be the starter in Minn - he's earned it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

I've responded previously in this thread, but not necessarily to the OT.

 

That said, in my opinion and respectfully, enough is enough.  The start must be with a new QB and you must do whatever it possibly takes to get the best QB that you think is the long term future of this team.  Doesn't mean that QB will be the long term future, but that is what you must have to start with after most 18 years of futility at the position.

 

They had hopes for EJ, but I believe those were simply hopes, even if you ask them about it.  They just needed somebody at that point.

 

Our last winning season Kyle Orton's stats projected over 16 games (and I am not saying he was great by any stretch) would have been 4,000 yards passing, 24 TDs and 14 picks.  Man, we need at least that production regardless of any back and forth we do on these boards.  

 

I always liked Tyrod.  However, I need 3,500 yards and 24 or so TDs from him and if the ONLY WAY I get that from him is having the best options at receiver/TE and one of the best OLines in football, then I just don't think he's that guy.

 

We need a change and it should probably come from the best possible option in the draft.

If you can't select one of the top QBs, do you just select one out of desperation?  That doesn't sound too great.  I 100% agree we need to draft a QB.  But let's take one we love, not one we are ehh about.  

5 minutes ago, Bakin said:

Why are people talking about Bradford or Bridgewater?  Why??  These guys are broken. 

 

Keenum is probably going to be the starter in Minn - he's earned it. 

Because those guys aren't long term starters...they are guys that can bridge the gap as an okay starter for maybe a year.  

 

The entire part of the post that people seem to be missing is we may not have a chance at the top QBs in this draft.  This is an option if that happens. 

If Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen are gone, who here would be willing to trade multiple first round picks and probably other picks for Josh Allen or Baker Mayfield?  Is that something you really want to do?  If I'm giving up a ton of picks, I want one of the top tier guys and that's Darnold or Rosen at this point

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's been since 1995 since we had a franchise QB. Who in there right mind would want to screw around in this draft with so many QB options and the Bills sitting on two number ones. Do you idiots really want to see the same crap next year and draft Offensive linemen. Please look at the the decade as evidence that is F#@king stupid. Cousins, Bradford and Keenum have been passed around like a joint at a Dead concert. If they were "IT" the teams they were on would keep them. ****HELLO!!****

Edited by Tatonka68
typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Tatonka68 said:

It's been since 1995 since we had a franchise QB. Who in there mind would like screw around in this draft with so many QB options and the Bills sitting on two number ones. Do you idiots really want to see the same crap next year and draft Offensive linemen. Please look at the the decade as evidence that is F#@king stupid.

If you read, I state that the top QBs could be out of reach if the QB needy teams at the top decide to draft them.  There are more QB needy teams at the top than there are QBs that warrant that those draft spots.  They could be gone and we may not have any say in the matter even with all of our picks.  

 

I am in the camp of trading up for a QB but sometimes it doesn't work out.

 

I poised the idea if that scenario were to happen.  But let's throw around insults.  Can't even have a conversation anymore...

 

Edited by Buffalo30

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Tatonka68 said:

It's been since 1995 since we had a franchise QB. Who in there mind would like screw around in this draft with so many QB options and the Bills sitting on two number ones. Do you idiots really want to see the same crap next year and draft Offensive linemen. Please look at the the decade as evidence that is F#@king stupid.

 

 

Tatonka68, just to be sure you are in the "we need a QB now" camp, right?

 

:lol:  Just kidding, my friend.

 

Honestly, it has to stop.  It has stop.  I want one in the first round, too, and the best one we can get.  However, other stupidity (i know, previous regimes, but still) has to stop, as well.  

 

The hell with hindsight as I liked him in the third round then, but nobody on this board...No.  Body.  would have traded up in the third round to get TJ Graham instead of Russell Wilson.

 

No, he would not have been THE Russell Wilson, but he could have sat behind Fitzy for a year, unless he just plain beat him out in his rookie season.  They ended up getting rid of Fitzy anyways and I doubt they were considering him a sacred cow even after they signed him.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×