Woods, watkins TDs

[Royale with Cheese]

8 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Solid rookie season with injuries and one the the receivers the second half of 2015 when he was healthy on a team that did not throw much.  

 

Watch how bad Goff is in his reads and progressions.  Doing Watkins no favours.  Criminal that Cooper Kupp has 48 vs. 31 targets for Watkins.

 

Riddle me this....  Which  WR has the other teams #1 db or double coverage assigned to him on the Rams.

 

Riddle me this, players like Antonio Brown,  OBJ and other elite WR....how come they can still produce at a high level even though they are doubled?

 

Elite based on solid rookie season?  That's your criteria that he would be elite? 

[teef]

13 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Solid rookie season with injuries and one the the receivers the second half of 2015 when he was healthy on a team that did not throw much.  

 

Watch how bad Goff is in his reads and progressions.  Doing Watkins no favours.  Criminal that Cooper Kupp has 48 vs. 31 targets for Watkins.

 

Riddle me this....  Which  WR has the other teams #1 db or double coverage assigned to him on the Rams.

so again, you're doing nothing other than speculating that sammy would have the magically great numbers.  he's been in the league long enough that at some point we have to stop blaming his lack of production on everyone else.  he just hasn't produced.  he has the ability no doubt, but enough is enough.  

 

blame it on the hardcore double coverage, but aren't "elite" receivers supposed to over come this?  i wouldn't expect huge games every game, but he's done next to nothing while on the rams.  goff is getting the balls to his guys enough to win.  if sammy can't make himself one of those guys, then so be it.

 

i just think it's crazy that people still assume that if still on the bills, sammy has a big year...with tt.  keep trying.

[teef]

6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Riddle me this, players like Antonio Brown,  OBJ and other elite WR....how come they can still produce at a high level even though they are doubled?

 

Elite based on solid rookie season?  That's your criteria that he would be elite? 

his argument is just poor.  at some point, the numbers are unavoidable.  if he was so elite, it would have been seen by now.  he's not.

[SaviorPeterman]

Sean McVay has the Rams playing LARGE and they are a legit SB caliber team with both their offense and Wade Phillips defense.

 

Reminds me of the Kurt Warner's greatest show on turf teams circa 1999 - 2002.

[SoTier]

16 minutes ago, teef said:

what was said was absolutely true.  woods is having a good year, but wasn't likely worth the 8 mill a year he received.  watkins has been wildly inconsistent, injury or no injury.  just look at his numbers this year.  you just can't seem to get over the fact that some of the guys that were moved, were moved for not just financial reasons.  if this team is so cheap, why give wood an extension.

 

The poster I replied to claimed that Watkins and Woods were "inconsistent" which was why they were moved out, and that's untrue.  Neither was "inconsistent" in their play for the Bills.  They weren't dropping easy balls or running the wrong routes with some frequency.   They both played well within the limits of the Bills offense. Certainly the way the Bills used Watkins in 2015 and 2016 when he was healthy was "inconsistent" but that's on the coaching staff not the player.  Woods was a very solid WR on a run-first team with a QB still learning the ropes.  He's in a better situation now, and he's showing his stuff.

 

BTW, how many Rams games have you watched?  Woods has turned into a clutch WR for them although Kupp gets most of the glory because Goff relies on him the way Matt Ryan relies on Julio Jones and Andy Dalton relies on AJ Green.  The rest of the receivers scramble for the crumbs.  Woods would have been worth $8 million in a Bills uniform because he would give them a downfield threat that they still don't have even with the trade for Benjamin.  It's the going rate, and they probably will have to shell out close to that to keep Benjamin.

 

 

15 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

Sammy Watkins has 2 games of over 3 catches this season and 1 game of over 100 yards which was against San Fran.  Does that sound like consistency to you?  Maybe consistent poor play or decoy play but he doesn't deserve the credit of being a top flight receiver that many jack him up to be.  As for Woods, he's been consistent but not worth 8 million a year for a run first team.  If I'm paying my second wide receiver on the team that much, he better be getting 1,000 yards a season for me but he didn't here.  I understand we don't throw the ball a lot but the Rams have been and yet Sammy still can't produce.  He's inconsistent

 

As I asked Teef, how many Rams games have you watched?  WRs are dependent upon how often the QB throws to them.  Goff throws to Kupp as if he were his only option a lot of the time.  As Goff matures and gets more confidence in Watkins and Woods, as well as defenses start double covering Kupp, Goff should start throwing the ball to his other options more often.  Even without having as many targets as he should have, Woods is on pace to get at about 800-900+ yards (I'm not sure if the Rams have played 8 or 9 games).

 

The point is, however, not whether the Bills should have gotten rid of one or both Woods and/or Watkins but rather whether they were "inconsistent" as WRs.  They weren't in Buffalo, and they aren't in LA.

[Billsfan1972]

17 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Riddle me this, players like Antonio Brown,  OBJ and other elite WR....how come they can still produce at a high level even though they are doubled?

 

Elite based on solid rookie season?  That's your criteria that he would be elite? 

Goff is not even looking at him as I expect that coaching won't let him throw into double coverage.  I also think veterans like Manning & Rothliesberger actually look to their stars to make plays.

 

Watch a Rams game and it is pretty obvious that Goff is performing at a high level due to the schemes and not his skill level. 

 

Watkins wide open both targets Saturday and Goff made one pass.  

 

Also took serious speed to get to the ball as he blew by the db....

[SoTier]

14 minutes ago, SaviorPeterman said:

Sean McVay has the Rams playing LARGE and they are a legit SB caliber team with both their offense and Wade Phillips defense.

 

Reminds me of the Kurt Warner's greatest show on turf teams circa 1999 - 2002.

 

Given up on your Carpies, huh?

[Billsfan1972]

2 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

The poster I replied to claimed that Watkins and Woods were "inconsistent" which was why they were moved out, and that's untrue.  Neither was "inconsistent" in their play for the Bills.  They weren't dropping easy balls or running the wrong routes with some frequency.   They both played well within the limits of the Bills offense. Certainly the way the Bills used Watkins in 2015 and 2016 when he was healthy was "inconsistent" but that's on the coaching staff not the player.  Woods was a very solid WR on a run-first team with a QB still learning the ropes.  He's in a better situation now, and he's showing his stuff.

 

BTW, how many Rams games have you watched?  Woods has turned into a clutch WR for them although Kupp gets most of the glory because Goff relies on him the way Matt Ryan relies on Julio Jones and Andy Dalton relies on AJ Green.  The rest of the receivers scramble for the crumbs.  Woods would have been worth $8 million in a Bills uniform because he would give them a downfield threat that they still don't have even with the trade for Benjamin.  It's the going rate, and they probably will have to shell out close to that to keep Benjamin.

 

 

 

As I asked Teef, how many Rams games have you watched?  WRs are dependent upon how often the QB throws to them.  Goff throws to Kupp as if he were his only option a lot of the time.  As Goff matures and gets more confidence in Watkins and Woods, as well as defenses start double covering Kupp, Goff should start throwing the ball to his other options more often.  Even without having as many targets as he should have, Woods is on pace to get at about 800-900+ yards (I'm not sure if the Rams have played 8 or 9 games).

 

The point is, however, not whether the Bills should have gotten rid of one or both Woods and/or Watkins but rather whether they were "inconsistent" as WRs.  They weren't in Buffalo, and they aren't in LA.

Kupp will not get double covered, because then their fastest and best receiver won't have the #1 cover and double on him (Watkins).  Opposing coaches have no choice but to cover Watkins and hope Goff doesn't look his way, which he doesn't.

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Goff is not even looking at him as I expect that coaching won't let him throw into double coverage.  I also think veterans like Manning & Rothliesberger actually look to their stars to make plays.

 

Watch a Rams game and it is pretty obvious that Goff is performing at a high level due to the schemes and not his skill level. 

 

Watkins wide open both targets Saturday and Goff made one pass.  

 

Also took serious speed to get to the ball as he blew by the db....

 

While Sammy was in Buffalo....

2014 - 8 targets per game

2015 - 7.75 targets per game

2016- 6.5 targets per game

 

This is why Taylor who you said would make Watkins "elite".  

[oldmanfan]

I was one who did not want Sammy traded.  I'd still like to see him on the team.  But come on now.  You look at his production in LA and it does not shout out:  Hey! This guy is elite!  He made one catch yesterday.  One catch.  And he was open by ten yards because the Giants either blew the  coverage or have given up on the HC.  That does not put him in the top echelon of NFL wide receivers no mater how you try to spin it, and I suspect he'll find that out come contract time post-season.   His career thus far seems to involve him being a guy who runs deep patterns every time, and he get targeted occasionally.  You can argue he needs to be sued differently (screens, etc), but two different teams now have not seen fit to use him that way.  In contrast, the Rams seem to want to utilize a rookie WR as their focal point.

Woods has done OK there.  His TD yesterday?  A one yard pass, good blocking down field, and he wasn't touched as he ran 50 some yards.  Again, nice for the Rams but not a real stretch for a WR.  They want to spend 8 million or so on Woods, fine.  I think Jones is every bit as good going forth.

 

  

[Pete]

Watkins had one more catch yesterday then I did

[teef]

30 minutes ago, SoTier said:

 

The poster I replied to claimed that Watkins and Woods were "inconsistent" which was why they were moved out, and that's untrue.  Neither was "inconsistent" in their play for the Bills.  They weren't dropping easy balls or running the wrong routes with some frequency.   They both played well within the limits of the Bills offense. Certainly the way the Bills used Watkins in 2015 and 2016 when he was healthy was "inconsistent" but that's on the coaching staff not the player.  Woods was a very solid WR on a run-first team with a QB still learning the ropes.  He's in a better situation now, and he's showing his stuff.

 

BTW, how many Rams games have you watched?  Woods has turned into a clutch WR for them although Kupp gets most of the glory because Goff relies on him the way Matt Ryan relies on Julio Jones and Andy Dalton relies on AJ Green.  The rest of the receivers scramble for the crumbs.  Woods would have been worth $8 million in a Bills uniform because he would give them a downfield threat that they still don't have even with the trade for Benjamin.  It's the going rate, and they probably will have to shell out close to that to keep Benjamin.

 

 

 

 

watkins was absolutely inconsistent.  you mention dropping balls and running the wrong routes, but that's not what i'm referring too.  i'm talking about straight up production, or lack there of from sammy.  you want to blame in on the coaching?  go right ahead, but sammy has been on two teams now, and has yet shown to be elite.  at some point the excuses from posters have to stop.  woods was a solid wr for the bills, but in no way should the bills have given him 8 mill a year.  i appreciate what he's done for la, but no way.  

 

and what's with the "how many rams games have i watched"?  enough with that nonsense.  i don't need to see any to know that watkins has so far been a failure there.  has woods be good...sure, but in my mind not 8 mill a year good.  i'd much rather have benjamin for that money.

 

i really don't think  you even care about these specific players.  you're still in that nonsense mode that the bills are letting these guys go because of money, when it's clearly not the entire story.  at least you started bringing up gilmore as an example.  he would have been a huge mistake for the money.  keep letting your anger cloud the reality of what's happening.  

32 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Kupp will not get double covered, because then their fastest and best receiver won't have the #1 cover and double on him (Watkins).  Opposing coaches have no choice but to cover Watkins and hope Goff doesn't look his way, which he doesn't.

sammy's lack of production is no one's fault other than sammys.  woods seems to be getting the ball fine enough.  why can't watkins?

18 minutes ago, Pete said:

Watkins had one more catch yesterday then I did

you're elite.  

[dave mcbride]

36 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

While Sammy was in Buffalo....

2014 - 8 targets per game

2015 - 7.75 targets per game

2016- 6.5 targets per game

 

This is why Taylor who you said would make Watkins "elite".  

Lies, damned lies, and statistics. In 2016, Watkins either didn't finish a number of games, or was on a pitch count because of the foot. Hence his target numbers were necessarily down on a per game average. Same goes for 2015, when he left 2 games early (Miami and Cincinnati). 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

Lies, damned lies, and statistics. In 2016, Watkins either didn't finish a number of games, or was on a pitch count because of the foot. Hence his target numbers were necessarily down on a per game average. Same goes for 2015, when he left 2 games early (Miami and Cincinnati). 

 

So Watkins complained about targets for no reason then?

[dave mcbride]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

So Watkins complained about targets for no reason then?

I am not talking about his comments; I'm talking about measurable facts.

[teef]

5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Lies, damned lies, and statistics. In 2016, Watkins either didn't finish a number of games, or was on a pitch count because of the foot. Hence his target numbers were necessarily down on a per game average. Same goes for 2015, when he left 2 games early (Miami and Cincinnati). 

his injuries are still part of the problem.  i don't care why he has a lack of targets or a lack of production.  it's on sammy.  he's even been arguably been put into a better situation this year, and he still can't get it done.  i think he has it in him to be great, but at some point he needs to own this.

[John from Riverside]

They are gone.....time to move on

[Royale with Cheese]

5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

I am not talking about his comments; I'm talking about measurable facts.

 

But his comments are directly about his targets.  I posted his targets per game.

 

You called it a lie.  So if it’s a lie, then his specific comments about wanting more targets were wrong?

 

Was he targeted enough or not in Buffalo?So which is it Dave?  

[Billsfan1972]

And why then is the opposing teams #1 back assigned him or double teamed????  Because he's a scrub?

 

And who is worth the money?  I love how every receiver is not worth the money they're being paid.

 

The good news is Matthews value is tumbling, so that bodes well.....

[teef]

8 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And why then is the opposing teams #1 back assigned him or double teamed????  Because he's a scrub?

 

And who is worth the money?  I love how every receiver is not worth the money they're being paid.

 

The good news is Matthews value is tumbling, so that bodes well.....

so what if he's double teamed?  you think he's so elite...should't he still be showing some numbers?  i don't think i've once seen anyone call him a scrub on here.  his problem is he was a me first player, (as he even admitted) and even then his value wasn't there.  you know who's worth the money?  productive players.  sammy hasn't shown himself to be one.  

 

what's it going to take for people to realize that letting sammy go was likely a wise decision?  will have have to be non-productive on his  third team for people to actually clue in?