hondo in seattle Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Who said we were "supposed to" run a classic WCO. I don't recall Rico saying that. If the pundits said it, they were wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) Who said we were "supposed to" run a classic WCO. I don't recall Rico saying that. If the pundits said it, they were wrong. i don't think it was ever mentioned that we were supposed to run a 'classic' version of the WCO. what i recall being said was that Dennison runs his own version of the WCO. a staple of any WCO is a 5 step drop and bam, the ball comes out. timing routes extradordinaire. we are not seeing any of those basics. occassionally, sure but not with any sort of regularity that could be considered calling it WCO. Edited October 25, 2017 by Foxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 It is not and was never a traditional WCO It's a mobile WCO designed to get TT on the move. Bills are at their best when TT is waggling. When Clay was healthy him and O'Leary were becoming a very good 1-2 punch for TT. Great safety valve This. I'm not sure anybody is running a pure WCO anymore. Andy Reid is a WCO guy and Alex Smith is making a lot of deep throws this season. McCarthy in Green Bay is from the WCO coaching tree, but when Aaron Rodgers is healthy, the Packers do a lot of stuff that is atypical for the WCO. Before the season it was stated that the Bills would try and take advantage of Taylor's mobility with rollouts, and that they would incorporate some of the run offense the Bills ran last season (though it took the Tampa game to pressure them into making good on that intention. The offense this season looks a little more like a WCO than it did last season, but that's about as close as it's going to get IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Is WCO still a thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 They're running the same WCO run in GB, KC, Phily and Rams. It calls for deep passes, shotgun, pistol and power running game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) Pretty much what Vick was saying. What separates Taylor from 98% of all the QBs in the NFL is his athletic ability. To force him into 3 step drops plays into the defenses hands. You want to drop 8 into coverage ok. We will do 5-7 step drops. If no one is open can the coverage hold up for 5 to 6 secs when the fastest qb in the NFL is moving towards the of scrimmage? Seems when he runs and makes some plays he gets into a rythem quicker. Edited October 25, 2017 by Mat68 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Yea Dennison has slowly ditched the timing routes because he can see they are not plays TT is comfortable making. That is encouraging. What we are left with is an odd mix of scheme, but frankly who cares? An OC that adjusts to what his players are comfortable doing sounds like a good thing to me. This is where I stand on it (and another reason that Rex was so awful). The talent dictates the scheme not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 This is where I stand on it (and another reason that Rex was so awful). The talent dictates the scheme not the other way around. Yes. Agreed. That being said, I still dont like Rico or Castillo. Long term they are not the answer for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Great job by coaching staff not doing a Wrecks on this team. They have been imperfect as expected, but what was evidenced last week on offense is a great sign. Tailoring the scheme to the players....not the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeginnersMind Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Great job by coaching staff not doing a Wrecks on this team. They have been imperfect as expected, but what was evidenced last week on offense is a great sign. Tailoring the scheme to the players....not the other way around. Pre-season showed how ill-equipped TT was to handle a more WCO offense. They are adjusting. Tyrod is better with a deep drop and getting more time to survey the field. Not saying that's a good thing, but it's a true thing, and Dennison is working to that strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) i don't think it was ever mentioned that we were supposed to run a 'classic' version of the WCO. what i recall being said was that Dennison runs his own version of the WCO. a staple of any WCO is a 5 step drop and bam, the ball comes out. timing routes extradordinaire. we are not seeing any of those basics. occassionally, sure but not with any sort of regularity that could be considered calling it WCO. Yeah, I remember this being talked about in the media. As I recall, though, Dennison himself was rather vague and secretive about what kind of offense he would run. Now we know. Though I think this is still a works-in-progress. Dennison made some changes to the running scheme during the bye week and so-far, so-good. As it's his first year as a real OC, and first year with the Bills, I suspect he's going to continue to evolve the scheme and play-calling. Edited October 25, 2017 by hondo in seattle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) Don't fool yourself, they are still running the WCO, Shanahan style. Only changes are to the blocking scheme. They went from zone to man with the Oline. They go back and forth from Zone to man on the Oline. The routes are still WCO. The routes are the same. The QB can play under center, pistol or shotgun. Even Peyton was in shotgun something like 80% of the time when Dennison was his OC. Edited October 25, 2017 by CuddyDark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 Don't fool yourself, they are still running the WCO, Shanahan style. Only changes are to the blocking scheme. They went from zone to man with the Oline. They go back and forth from Zone to man on the Oline. The routes are still WCO. The routes are the same. The QB can play under center, pistol or shotgun. Even Peyton was under center something like 80% of the time when Dennison was his OC. nobody is under center 80% of the time. Tyrod does however throw it 80% of the time from the shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CuddyDark Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) nobody is under center 80% of the time. Tyrod does however throw it 80% of the time from the shotgun. Opps I mean he was in Shotgun 80% of the time. I was having problems posting and my font is off. Thanks, I'll correct it. Edited October 25, 2017 by CuddyDark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Pygmy Goat Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) Who said we were "supposed to" run a classic WCO. I don't recall Rico saying that. If the pundits said it, they were wrong. They weren't wrong. They just weren't completely right. The concepts are there. But going into the season, my belief, as well as many others, was that we would see a lot more play-action and bootlegs, and that's pretty much been the staple of the passing attack so far this year. Makes sense when you have a strong run game (we did, and even though not quite as strong now, the play-action depends on your willingness to stick to the run, even when not working), and a QB that is better outside the pocket than within it. Like I said earlier (assuming no one read it), people tend to put too much thought into labels. Edited October 25, 2017 by Drunken Pygmy Goat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 This. I'm not sure anybody is running a pure WCO anymore. Andy Reid is a WCO guy and Alex Smith is making a lot of deep throws this season. McCarthy in Green Bay is from the WCO coaching tree, but when Aaron Rodgers is healthy, the Packers do a lot of stuff that is atypical for the WCO. Before the season it was stated that the Bills would try and take advantage of Taylor's mobility with rollouts, and that they would incorporate some of the run offense the Bills ran last season (though it took the Tampa game to pressure them into making good on that intention. The offense this season looks a little more like a WCO than it did last season, but that's about as close as it's going to get IMO. Yea , a true 1980s WCO is hard to find today They utilized 1-2 FBs and even 1-2-3 TE sets. The principles are still found all over the game but the formations used and personnel used are changing to a more modern game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbills Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 QB under center, 5 step drop and bam the ball will be coming out. I think it's evident that Tyrod Taylor is not very capable of making these kinds of throws, he is far too hesitant to make a decision and would rather opt out to run than force a throw into a tight window. it's also part of the reason he's one of the top 10 sacked QB in the league, you have to blame the line on some plays but you can't deny Taylor's scrambling hasn't got him sacked before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 (edited) i don't see many tenets of the WCO being employed by the Bills offense. QB under center, 5 step drop and bam the ball will be coming out. tightends and backs out of the backfield were to be a large part of this version of the WCO. plenty of passes over the middle in the short passing game. serious question, what happened? It's still there. The 3 step drop has been mostly eliminated because of the batted balls in the first few weeks, although we saw that a few more times than I expected against the Bucs. The 5 step drop is still there. We're doing a lot of play action and Taylor is extremely effective out of that. Hell, the stark contrast from last year to this year just in terms of snaps under center is incredible: https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/snap-rates--shotgun-v-under-center--off-.html 2016: 20% of all snaps were under center 2017: 57% of all snaps were under center Edited October 25, 2017 by transplantbillsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 It's still there. The 3 step drop has been mostly eliminated because of the batted balls in the first few weeks, although we saw that a few more times than I expected against the Bucs. The 5 step drop is still there. We're doing a lot of play action and Taylor is extremely effective out of that. Hell, the stark contrast from last year to this year just in terms of snaps under center is incredible: https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/snap-rates--shotgun-v-under-center--off-.html 2016: 20% of all snaps were under center 2017: 57% of all snaps were under center Good post man TT under center is more dangerous for our team. Under center they have to respect the run more, they have to respect the waggle more and they have to respect the pass I think it's a good adjustment for our offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 It's still there. The 3 step drop has been mostly eliminated because of the batted balls in the first few weeks, although we saw that a few more times than I expected against the Bucs. The 5 step drop is still there. We're doing a lot of play action and Taylor is extremely effective out of that. Hell, the stark contrast from last year to this year just in terms of snaps under center is incredible: https://www.sharpfootballstats.com/snap-rates--shotgun-v-under-center--off-.html 2016: 20% of all snaps were under center 2017: 57% of all snaps were under center yeah, i dunno. sure you see the 5 step drop but you don't see the 5 step drop and the ball coming right out. there are no timing plays to speak of, which is a primary tenet of the WCO. 20% of snaps from under center last year is not very balanced and i don't know that you can really compare what happened last year to what we are trying to do this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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