section122 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 I'd put some money on Cam playing at pro bowl level by the end of the year. DM if you're interested and we could figure something out. I sent you a pm. This is what happens when people watch the Bills too closely and don't pay attention to the rest of the league. There are a ton of QBs who are as wildly inconsistent as Tyrod has been and a lot of it depends on the players around them. Andy Dalton looked great 2 seasons ago, now he looks like one of the worst QBs in the league. It's how it goes for most of these guys. YES!!!!!! I started a thread the last 2 weeks to show this. Here is this weeks Here is the part about Tyrod and this is after the terrible showing this week. Tyrod is 22nd in ypa ahead of Eli, Kirk Cousins, Dak Prescott, Andy Dalton, and Russel Wilson Tyrod is 17th in QB rating ahead of Cam, Eli, Cousins, Mariota, Dak, and Russel Wilson Tyrod is 13th in completions over 20 yards ahead of Eli, Rivers, Flacco, Stafford, and Russel Wilson. Tyrod is 11th in td% ahead of Brees, Cam, Matt Ryan, Dak, Jameis, A Rodgers, Cousins, and Palmer. Tyrod has a better int% (both of these numbers - td and int - take in to account attempts per) Aaron Rodgers, Dak, Wentz, Eli, Flacco, Palmer, and Dalton Those are a lot of "franchise QBs" that Tyrod is performing better than. Obviously there are several guys that he is only better than at 1 or 2 statistics which don't mean much but Eli, Cam, Flacco, Dak, Andy Dalton, and Russel Wilson all appear in multiple statistics. The Seahawks, Giants, and Bengals have all looked terrible on offense this year. The Bengals were the first team in almost 70 years to not score a td in their first 2 home games! Admittedly the Hawks and Giants problems can be traced to o-line at least imo. However people are so emotionally invested with the Bills they argue every tiny mistake and every mistake is magnified. I get it but perspective is needed when it comes to qb play around the league. The other issue is all of us having watched Brady skews what a qb can do. I put it elsewhere but a qb isn't the end all be all for the super bowl. Just recently the corpse of Manning won a Super Bowl, Russel Wilson won a Super Bowl in a year where he averaged 175 yards passing through the playoffs including a 103 yard passing game, Joe Flacco who has inarguably performed worse than Tyrod since 2015 has won one, Colin Kaepernick went to one, and Rex Grossman went to one. This isn't ancient history either this is all within the last 10 years. Brady/Manning/Roethlisberger have ruined perspective for many Bills fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 I sent you a pm. YES!!!!!! I started a thread the last 2 weeks to show this. Here is this weeks Here is the part about Tyrod and this is after the terrible showing this week. Tyrod is 22nd in ypa ahead of Eli, Kirk Cousins, Dak Prescott, Andy Dalton, and Russel Wilson Tyrod is 17th in QB rating ahead of Cam, Eli, Cousins, Mariota, Dak, and Russel Wilson Tyrod is 13th in completions over 20 yards ahead of Eli, Rivers, Flacco, Stafford, and Russel Wilson. Tyrod is 11th in td% ahead of Brees, Cam, Matt Ryan, Dak, Jameis, A Rodgers, Cousins, and Palmer. Tyrod has a better int% (both of these numbers - td and int - take in to account attempts per) Aaron Rodgers, Dak, Wentz, Eli, Flacco, Palmer, and Dalton Those are a lot of "franchise QBs" that Tyrod is performing better than. Obviously there are several guys that he is only better than at 1 or 2 statistics which don't mean much but Eli, Cam, Flacco, Dak, Andy Dalton, and Russel Wilson all appear in multiple statistics. The Seahawks, Giants, and Bengals have all looked terrible on offense this year. The Bengals were the first team in almost 70 years to not score a td in their first 2 home games! Admittedly the Hawks and Giants problems can be traced to o-line at least imo. However people are so emotionally invested with the Bills they argue every tiny mistake and every mistake is magnified. I get it but perspective is needed when it comes to qb play around the league. The other issue is all of us having watched Brady skews what a qb can do. I put it elsewhere but a qb isn't the end all be all for the super bowl. Just recently the corpse of Manning won a Super Bowl, Russel Wilson won a Super Bowl in a year where he averaged 175 yards passing through the playoffs including a 103 yard passing game, Joe Flacco who has inarguably performed worse than Tyrod since 2015 has won one, Colin Kaepernick went to one, and Rex Grossman went to one. This isn't ancient history either this is all within the last 10 years. Brady/Manning/Roethlisberger have ruined perspective for many Bills fans. Good stuff!! Perspective is ALWAYS needed. We watch the Bills and for the most part people disdain their own team. I said it before but I've never seen a fan base more negative about their own team. Don't get me wrong a lot is warranted but after years of being sad we are now angry. It's just different. It's also just much easier for the untrained eye to point to the QB. That's why there is so much talk about it on WGR. There are 22 guys that impact each play. The QB is usually the most important but on any given play it can be any of the other 21 guys (or 20 if Rex is coaching you). There are a lot of moving parts that make things work or not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Good stuff!! Perspective is ALWAYS needed. We watch the Bills and for the most part people disdain their own team. I said it before but I've never seen a fan base more negative about their own team. Don't get me wrong a lot is warranted but after years of being sad we are now angry. It's just different. It's also just much easier for the untrained eye to point to the QB. That's why there is so much talk about it on WGR. There are 22 guys that impact each play. The QB is usually the most important but on any given play it can be any of the other 21 guys (or 20 if Rex is coaching you). There are a lot of moving parts that make things work or not work. It's a vitriolic atmosphere to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houston's #1 Bills Fan Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Nice summary. I agree with everything. Biggest 2 problems going forward in my opinion are 1) Lack of big play pass attempts and 2) Lackluster running game They go hand in hand in my opinion. Gotta fix them both or else Dennison might look like an incompetent jackass by the end of the season. Attempts! Exactly! There were none even tried in the Panthers game. That's my question. Why? At least try and 50% of getting a pass interference call. TT has the arm and our receivers can run down the field. I also think we should call up Reilly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Good stuff!! Perspective is ALWAYS needed. We watch the Bills and for the most part people disdain their own team. I said it before but I've never seen a fan base more negative about their own team. Don't get me wrong a lot is warranted but after years of being sad we are now angry. It's just different. It's also just much easier for the untrained eye to point to the QB. That's why there is so much talk about it on WGR. There are 22 guys that impact each play. The QB is usually the most important but on any given play it can be any of the other 21 guys (or 20 if Rex is coaching you). There are a lot of moving parts that make things work or not work. I'm disappointed in myself but before that 4th down play one of my thoughts was c'mon Tyrod make this throw so I don't have to listen to the insanity of "time to start Peterman" and "Tyrod is a backup at best in this league" and that I could visit tbd. That is a 40 yard throw he missed by a little bit if it was his fault or not at all if it is on Zay (I'm in the camp of we will never know) and in the SAME GAME Cam missed a 5 yard throw to seal the game and crickets. Eli has been on primetime and looked at least as bad as Tyrod including a self sack and crickets. Dalton has led a historically bad offense that got the oc fired after 2 games and crickets. I started the weekly thread as I know people don't have time to watch and it's beyond frustrating listening to uninformed opinion after uninformed opinion when the information is right in front of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsmovinup Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Theyve fixed the defense and completely ruined the offense. The opposite of last year which will likely lead to the same 6-10, 7-9, 8-8 record weve grown accustom to. Wonder what marketing slogan Brandon is working on for next year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 (edited) So those are acceptable reasons for Cam to go from an MVP level to Tyrod's level, but the fact that Tyrod's performance has dipped less than that under similar circumstances is making excuses? Again, if Tyrod had close to the resume of Cam, he would be viewed differently. Cam is a year removed from 50 tds when his best wr was Ted Ginn. Edited September 21, 2017 by C.Biscuit97 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahnyc Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 The defense has looked strong, but the Jets are poor offensively and Newton looked bad last week (plus McDermott knows the Panthers strengths and weaknesses on offense). I want to see how the defense performs as the season progresses, particularly when we play teams like the Pats and the Dolphins. I do think the defense will continue to perform better than last year, but I will be a bit surprised if it is a top 10 defense at season end. I agree with all of the posts about how boring this team is to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Again, if Tyrod had close to the resume of Cam, he would be viewed differently. Cam is a year removed from 50 tds when his best wr was Ted Ginn. So what's the excuse for last year if the surgery was this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 So what's the excuse for last year if the surgery was this year? I like you Hokie so I don't want keep going back and forth. Cam had a bad year after making the SB. Defense sucked (our head coach) and the whole team regressed. His track record is very good and I think he is a lot better qb than Tyrod. I think most non Bills fans would agree. His team is 2-0 and hasn't even played good. We'll see how it plays out. Maybe he isn't the same guy. But his best is better than any Bills qb we have had since Kelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 I like you Hokie so I don't want keep going back and forth. Cam had a bad year after making the SB. Defense sucked (our head coach) and the whole team regressed. His track record is very good and I think he is a lot better qb than Tyrod. I think most non Bills fans would agree. His team is 2-0 and hasn't even played good. We'll see how it plays out. Maybe he isn't the same guy. But his best is better than any Bills qb we have had since Kelly. I agree and don't really want to drag it out either. I just find it interesting that there are reasons for poor performance by some QBs, but for our QB it's always considered an excuse he should overcome. I do hope, for Cam's sake, that he returns to form. I just don't expect it after 18 games of play that would get him run out of Buffalo by the fanbase. I'm disappointed in myself but before that 4th down play one of my thoughts was c'mon Tyrod make this throw so I don't have to listen to the insanity of "time to start Peterman" and "Tyrod is a backup at best in this league" and that I could visit tbd. That is a 40 yard throw he missed by a little bit if it was his fault or not at all if it is on Zay (I'm in the camp of we will never know) and in the SAME GAME Cam missed a 5 yard throw to seal the game and crickets. Eli has been on primetime and looked at least as bad as Tyrod including a self sack and crickets. Dalton has led a historically bad offense that got the oc fired after 2 games and crickets. I started the weekly thread as I know people don't have time to watch and it's beyond frustrating listening to uninformed opinion after uninformed opinion when the information is right in front of them! I pm'd you. Hope you find it useful/interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 I think the juice has finally run out on this franchise. We're sitting here debating about Tyrod or Nate Peterman, and trying to get excited about a run first, conservative offense and a Coach who is obsessed with Special Teams and Field Position. It's deflating because we had another fresh start with a new Coach and GM, but they have sucked all the life out of this team with the roster moves and coaching style. We're all just waiting on a Franchise QB to breathe life into this corpse of a franchise. SPeak for yourself pal. Go BILLS !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 McDermott looks like he can manange games and coach. Coach McDermott needs to improve on game management some still. At the end of the 1st half with around 1:00 to pay, the Panthers had 3rd and 11. Cam threw a pass to a RB and we stopped them short of the sticks. But, there was a penalty on the play. Instead of declining it and forcing a punt, he took the penalty. (They were not in FG range.) The Panthers ran another play and punted. THEN he calls a timeout with :12 to play and Hotrod takes a knee. Odd. Only his second game, but still not good. Seeing how well we did the 2:00 at the end of the game, who knows, we may have been able to get points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 (edited) I think the juice has finally run out on this franchise. We're sitting here debating about Tyrod or Nate Peterman, and trying to get excited about a run first, conservative offense and a Coach who is obsessed with Special Teams and Field Position. It's deflating because we had another fresh start with a new Coach and GM, but they have sucked all the life out of this team with the roster moves and coaching style. We're all just waiting on a Franchise QB to breathe life into this corpse of a franchise. This feels like the bitter truth to me. And I've been a fan of this team since 1964. Edited September 21, 2017 by Dr. K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 (edited) Because I'm tired after 17 years of maybe wining a few really ugly games a year and missing the playoffs again and again? 10 points in a game will probably only win one game in twenty if you are lucky. What's the point in that? We can all see where this would have us heading. You can take your one 10 point game win and be happy. I'll be depressed because we have seen it all before that this team is yet again spinning it's wheels in the no playoff zone. Silly would have been wining that game and then being happy that a "win is a win". So if we scored 10 points and won we could never score any more points in any more games? I think it would have been AWESOME if we won 10 points and all. The Bills need to learn how to win close games at the end. The NFL is all about close games. The defending champs had 5 games decided by TD or less and the won 4 of them. The Fish had 10 of which they won 8. Meanwhile, we had 7 of which we lost 5. That's the difference between a playoff and non layoff team. Winning the close games. We need to learn how to do that. Winning a close one like that would have instilled confidence for the next one. As it is now, it often feels like when it's close at the end we start looking for the next show to drop. It's in large part a confidence and belief thing. BILLIEVE for real. Edited September 21, 2017 by reddogblitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 It's a vitriolic atmosphere to say the least. ....seventeen years "in the books" and the two game set (should be long enough, right?-COUGH) in 2017 along with "crystal bawls" readings for the balance of the year is a surprise?......pre-season prognosticators of 4-12, 5-11, 6-10, etc couldn't wait to post the "see I told you so" yips...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Good stuff, Kirby. I agree with all of it. The Watkins trade and the getting rid of TDMike or JWill really irked me because of the playmaker idea. Big plays by talented players win games. Matthews is a very solid possession receiver but not really a gamebreaker. Zay Jones may become one but he is not one. Tolbert should not in any way be a team's backup RB, especially a running team's. Short yardage, goalline, spot fill in? Sure. Guy you give 10 carries to, no. Combined with Opie's Jauron ball it's a recipe for mediocrity. You will be so spot-on with Jauron ball when they finish with a 7-9 record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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