The Tyrod Taylor Question

[Buffalo716]

Didn't the Bills get a better kicker in the offseason?

Bobby April was such a good STs coach

[transplantbillsfan]

And Cian also has gone out of his way to make TT look better than reality

So this is the general narrative about Fahey. I'm genuinely curious as to why? You don't agree with him, so discredit him? Have you watched every single snap of every single QB from 2016 and years prior? He has. I think he's built up enough credibility at this point that if this were just a sham, he'd be an incredible con artist who should be working in Vegas instead.

 

I think he's written one article about Taylor in the two years he's played for Buffalo, and if you actually read what he says, he talks about shortcomings often. That website you linked I can just as easily dismiss based off of the fact that it says Buffalo receivers only dropped 11 passes. I watched all the games. I watched passes multiple times. I definitely saw more than 11 drops.

 

Funny, I called the discrepancy interesting, you dismiss One of them completely. Wildly interesting difference in mentality there

Edited August 25, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[MAJBobby]

So this is the general narrative about Fahey. I'm genuinely curious as to why? You don't agree with him, so discredit him? Have you watched every single snap of every single QB from 2016 and years prior? He has. I think he's built up enough credibility at this point that if this were just a sham, he'd be an incredible con artist who should be working in Vegas instead.

 

I think he's written one article about Taylor in the two years he's played for Buffalo, and if you actually read what he says, he talks about shortcomings often. That website you linked I can just as easily dismiss based off of the fact that it says Buffalo receivers only dropped 11 passes. I watched all the games. I watched passes multiple times. I definitely saw more than 11 drops.

 

Funny, I called the discrepancy interesting, you dismiss One of them completely. Wildly interesting difference in mentality there

Its a general narrative because every article he writes is good about Taylor, also every tweet he makes about him are excuses. I dont dismiss him but i also take what he analyzes with a grain of salt.

 

Now the website i referenced doesnt analyze. Instead just charts the info for you to use wirh your film watch to analyze yourself. See how its different.

 

You can complain about the 11 drops and say there was more but this site compares every and charts every QB the same way and allows you to analyze the numbers.

 

If you say TT had more than 11 drops either every QB would have more then their drop number (if you are looking at them with all the same criteria you look at TT with) or you are watching TT with a different set of criteria.

[grb]

Its a general narrative because every article he writes is good about Taylor, also every tweet he makes about him are excuses. I dont dismiss him but i also take what he analyzes with a grain of salt.

 

Now the website i referenced doesnt analyze. Instead just charts the info for you to use wirh your film watch to analyze yourself. See how its different.

 

You can complain about the 11 drops and say there was more but this site compares every and charts every QB the same way and allows you to analyze the numbers.

 

If you say TT had more than 11 drops either every QB would have more then their drop number (if you are looking at them with all the same criteria you look at TT with) or you are watching TT with a different set of criteria.

 

Two points :

 

First, "every article he writes is good about Taylor" usually means said articles had positive things to say about the man. That's the red flag to anti-Taylor bulls. Personally, I've seen almost no articles on Taylor completely free of criticism. There was something posted on another site where the guy noted TT was sacked the most number of times in the NFL in 2016 (very bad), but that his yards-lost number was in the middle of the pack (less bad). How did the Anti-types respond? They raged, raged, raged against the inclusion of the yards-lost number. The very mention of that apparently was a conspiracy to hide the hideous truth. Also, the concept of "excuses" seems pretty elastic re Taylor. People seem to think it normal when Derek Carr's production improves with a better supporting cast. They think it normal when Kirk Cousins goes from mess to pretty good QB as the team around him gels. They think it normal when Matt Ryan's numbers increase or Andy Dalton's dip with the return / loss of prime targets. But Taylor plays a season with dumpster-fire receivers, and it's an "excuse" to think that's a factor in his "regression"?

 

Second, the website you referenced "doesn't analyze"? If you're referring to the uncatchable balls / dropped passes stats, I assure you they do. Ask twenty people to come up with those stats and you'll get twenty different numbers, even with all watching the same games. Not that there's anything wrong with that - and it's an interesting metric. I found it fascinating that Taylor's "uncatchable ball" rate in 2015 was just above Tom Brady's - suggesting maybe that stat isn't the end-all number on QB performance.

Edited August 25, 2017 by grb

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Bobby April was such a good STs coach

 

....April had FAR too much say and influence on the final 53.....majority of his ST'ers were one dimensional.........when called upon to provide depth at their natural positions, they couldn't do squat......OBD and Dickie had HELP WANTED trailers at Walmart and K-Mart.......hell I think they interviewed the 78 year old Walmart door greeter for a position.......

[Buffalo716]

....April had FAR too much say and influence on the final 53.....majority of his ST'ers were one dimensional.........when called upon to provide depth at their natural positions, they couldn't do squat......OBD and Dickie had HELP WANTED trailers at Walmart and K-Mart.......hell I think they interviewed the 78 year old Walmart door greeter for a position.......

Don't disagree there.

 

But there is a reason some players are core special teamers. They aren't good enough to be a CB or LB or WR.

 

Remember Justin Rodgers at CB?

[transplantbillsfan]

Its a general narrative because every article he writes is good about Taylor, also every tweet he makes about him are excuses. I dont dismiss him but i also take what he analyzes with a grain of salt.

 

Now the website i referenced doesnt analyze. Instead just charts the info for you to use wirh your film watch to analyze yourself. See how its different.

 

You can complain about the 11 drops and say there was more but this site compares every and charts every QB the same way and allows you to analyze the numbers.

 

If you say TT had more than 11 drops either every QB would have more then their drop number (if you are looking at them with all the same criteria you look at TT with) or you are watching TT with a different set of criteria.

 

Every article?

 

How many articles do you think he's written?

 

Here is the very last paragraph of one of those many (​the answer to the previous question is 2, btw) articles that supposedly exist about Taylor:

 

Expecting Taylor to develop much past who he is right now is unrealistic. He may have only started for one year, but he will be 27 years old before the start of this season. Taylor was forced to waste the early stages of his career as a backup because of his style of play. The narrative that he took major strides forward is tough to swallow because he was showing off the traits that are the foundation of his skill set right now back during his first preseason in the league. What should be comforting to Bills fans is that he doesn't need to develop any further to be a quality starting quarterback. He can be an above-average starter so long as his athleticism remains close to where it was in 2015.

Did that sound like something overly positive? Is that last line in any way really inaccurate, even for the biggest Taylor detractors?

 

 

And what the hell do you mean the website doesn't analyze it just charts and how is that any different from what Fahey does? Fahey analyzes and charts every single QB the exact same way that website does.

 

If you mean there's no subjectivity to that website, you're just plain wrong. You need to judge whether a ball is catchable or uncatchable. The website does exactly the same thing Fahey does and it has different results, which I think is interesting. I'm sure neither is 100% accurate and the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle, as it so typically does, like with this Tyrod Taylor debate.

Edited August 25, 2017 by transplantbillsfan

[MAJBobby]

 

Every article?

 

How many articles do you think he's written?

 

Here is the very last paragraph of one of those many (​the answer to the previous question is 2, btw) articles that supposedly exist about Taylor:

 

Expecting Taylor to develop much past who he is right now is unrealistic. He may have only started for one year, but he will be 27 years old before the start of this season. Taylor was forced to waste the early stages of his career as a backup because of his style of play. The narrative that he took major strides forward is tough to swallow because he was showing off the traits that are the foundation of his skill set right now back during his first preseason in the league. What should be comforting to Bills fans is that he doesn't need to develop any further to be a quality starting quarterback. He can be an above-average starter so long as his athleticism remains close to where it was in 2015.

 

Did that sound like something overly positive? Is that last line in any way really inaccurate, even for the biggest Taylor detractors?

 

 

And what the hell do you mean the website doesn't analyze it just charts and how is that any different from what Fahey does? Fahey analyzes and charts every single QB the exact same way that website does.

 

If you mean there's no subjectivity to that website, you're just plain wrong. You need to judge whether a ball is catchable or uncatchable. The website does exactly the same thing Fahey does and it has different results, which I think is interesting. I'm sure neither is 100% accurate and the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle, as it so typically does, like with this Tyrod Taylor debate.

Again Fahey analyzes the numbers and writes a narrative. The narrative HE SEES

 

The website i looked at and reference just posts RAW numbers. You can use them how you want. That is the difference.

 

I never dismissed Fahey he is good at what he does. However he is telling you HIS narrative. Instead of posting the raw numbers and allowing a person use them along with what they see on film and analyze and develop their own narrative.

 

If you cannot get that point i dont know how else to say it

[transplantbillsfan]

Again Fahey analyzes the numbers and writes a narrative. The narrative HE SEES

 

The website i looked at and reference just posts RAW numbers. You can use them how you want. That is the difference.

 

I never dismissed Fahey he is good at what he does. However he is telling you HIS narrative. Instead of posting the raw numbers and allowing a person use them along with what they see on film and analyze and develop their own narrative.

 

If you cannot get that point i dont know how else to say it

 

Fahey may write a narrative of his thoughts later, but his catalogue just posts the RAW numbers, as well. You can look at those numbers without actually reading anything he says about any of the QBs.

 

So, he does exactly what that website does and then also gives an anecdotal breakdown of and discussion of those QBs later. But there's really no difference in terms of how they come to the numbers. The numbers are just different.

[MAJBobby]

 

Fahey may write a narrative of his thoughts later, but his catalogue just posts the RAW numbers, as well. You can look at those numbers without actually reading anything he says about any of the QBs.

 

So, he does exactly what that website does and then also gives an anecdotal breakdown of and discussion of those QBs later. But there's really no difference in terms of how they come to the numbers. The numbers are just different.

Until he starts writing a narrative. Again either way to each his own. I have seen and heard enough of Tyrod Taylor excuses from him in writing, on WGR and twitter.

 

To each his own

[Mat68]

The second half preseason young qb across the league is very similar. The qb is the best player on the feild. One of the few guys who is making the team. Preseason game 3 tells you the only thing you need to know in preseason. If Taylor plays poor Saturday night I would give peterman the 2nd half and 1 or 2 series with the ones. You can send a message but also avoid a full qb controversey.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Mat68

[mead107]

19-0 baby

[26CornerBlitz]

@BigTimeFootball

Football Outsiders: accept that Tyrod is a good quarterback https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2017/8/25/16195918/football-outsiders-tyrod-taylor-is-a-good-quarterback-dvoa-eli-manning-joe-flacco-russell-wilson

via @BuffRumblings

 

The biggest question for the past two offseasons - even more important than the head coach - has been “Is Tyrod Taylor a franchise quarterback?” The Buffalo Bills fan base and apparently the decision makers inside the building have ebbed and flowed on the question, but Football Outsiders and their analytics haven’t.

 

“Look, I never would have expected Tyrod Taylor to be as good as he’s been the last two years,” says Aaron Schatz, Head of Football Outsiders. “But now he’s been that good, can we all accept it? He was top 10 in DVOA in 2015, and last year, without Sammy Watkins for most of the year, he was 19th, which is passable.”

 

Haterade in 5,4,3,2,1

[Foxx]

Again Fahey analyzes the numbers and writes a narrative. The narrative HE SEES

 

The website i looked at and reference just posts RAW numbers. You can use them how you want. That is the difference.

 

I never dismissed Fahey he is good at what he does. However he is telling you HIS narrative. Instead of posting the raw numbers and allowing a person use them along with what they see on film and analyze and develop their own narrative.

 

If you cannot get that point i dont know how else to say it

 

 

 

Fahey may write a narrative of his thoughts later, but his catalogue just posts the RAW numbers, as well. You can look at those numbers without actually reading anything he says about any of the QBs.

 

So, he does exactly what that website does and then also gives an anecdotal breakdown of and discussion of those QBs later. But there's really no difference in terms of how they come to the numbers. The numbers are just different.

two different perspectives.

 

one thinks for themselves and the other relies on another to do the thinking for them.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

 

 

two different perspectives.

 

one thinks for themselves and the other relies on another to do the thinking for them.

 

 

glad you could stop by Foxx. too bad your thread got locked up, it was a real doozy.

[transplantbillsfan]

 

 

two different perspectives.

 

one thinks for themselves and the other relies on another to do the thinking for them.

 

Not a clue why you're being such a belittling weenie here Foxx. Fahey's comments on Taylor are completely separate from his charts.

 

Completely separate.

 

Not a clue how the hell what you say here applies in any way.

 

 

So grumpy this offseason.