BarleyNY Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 He wasn't as talented as first round talents? That's probably why he was drafted in the second round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manbeast Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 (edited) OP, to be honest, I am skeptical. Best case: he plays great, and we don't worry about it anymore. Worst case: another lost pick by the previous FO. I'm hoping for the best, but I'm not holding my breath. I just don't understand why many of you say this. I don't think the draft was a weak point for him. I believe he did a good job. I think the problem was coaching and having a vision and his medical staff. I see many of the players he drafted or traded for as solid to good players here or else where. Although he can't be given full-credit or blame we start in 2013, R. Woods 2nd, Kiko Alonso 2nd, M. Goodwin 3rd (Health), D. Hopkins 6 (Just not with us), C.Gragg 7 ( has a bright future IMO just not with us). 2014, S.Watkins 1(x2+) (Health, otherwise TOP 10WR,TOP5 IMO), Kudjo 2 (Health), P. Brown 3, R. Cockrell 4, (Solid starter Just not for us), S. Henderson 7 (Health). 2015, (NONE) 1, R. Darby 2, J. Miller 3, (NONE) 4, Kar. Williams 5 (Drug and food Addict possibly linked together). Unlike many of you, 2016- TBD (???????). 2017-TBD (??????). IMO, these players met or exceeded draft position, or would have if not for injuries/medical/psychological which I place on training/medical staff as Whaley is not a health professional. There is also 1 TBD guy D. Lewis but im not holding my breath as I think his issues are mental. I believe he did well with trades as well. The last time we had a draft like you want to see was 2001, those drafts are not common. Remember the GMs between Butler and Whaley. Donahoe had 1 great draft and one good draft. I think firing Whaley was a mistake. Just like firing Bill Polian and John Butler, I also believe Whaley was doing a better job than Butler. Welcome to our new ownership Wilson 2.0. That's probably why he was drafted in the second round. That's why Brady was drafted in the 6th and Wilson in the 3rd, and Favre and Brees in the 2nd, Montana in the 3rd. Edited July 8, 2017 by manbeast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 I just don't understand why many of you say this. I don't think the draft was a weak point for him. I believe he did a good job. I think the problem was coaching and having a vision and his medical staff. I see many of the players he drafted or traded for as solid to good players here or else where. Although he can't be given full-credit or blame we start in 2013, R. Woods 2nd, Kiko Alonso 2nd, M. Goodwin 3rd (Health), D. Hopkins 6 (Just not with us), C.Gragg 7 ( has a bright future IMO just not with us). 2014, S.Watkins 1(x2+) (Health, otherwise TOP 10WR,TOP5 IMO), Kudjo 2 (Health), P. Brown 3, R. Cockrell 4, (Solid starter Just not for us), S. Henderson 7 (Health). 2015, (NONE) 1, R. Darby 2, J. Miller 3, (NONE) 4, Kar. Williams 5 (Drug and food Addict possibly linked together). Unlike many of you, 2016- TBD (???????). 2017-TBD (??????). IMO, these players met or exceeded draft position, or would have if not for injuries/medical/psychological which I place on training/medical staff as Whaley is not a health professional. There is also 1 TBD guy D. Lewis but im not holding my breath as I think his issues are mental. I believe he did well with trades as well. The last time we had a draft like you want to see was 2001, those drafts are not common. I think firing Whaley was a mistake. Just like firing John Butler. Welcome to our new ownership Wilson 2.0. ......good assessment...only part I disagree with is Pegula=Wilson 2.0......Pegula has recognized and atoned for his mistakes with the new Admin/FO/Coaching hirings out of his pocket, with NO expense spared (did the same with the Sabres now)......RW would NEVER have done that......Marrone ran for the hills with his $4 mil because Brandon and Whaley hated his militaristic "General Patton" style to restore a winning culture.....next up was Wrecks because Brandon eyed $$$ in ticket sales and I doubt Whaley was on board with this debacle hiring.....think season tix exceeded 60,000.....did Whaley make mistakes?...what GM does NOT?.....but I think at the end of the day, the tumult took the wind out of his sails so he was let go.....he'll land somewhere eventually...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 (edited) That's why Brady was drafted in the 6th and Wilson in the 3rd, and Favre and Brees in the 2nd, Montana in the 3rd.Yeah, it's always a great plan to count on someone being an exception to a rule. In all honesty, Ragland holds some real promise. He's a good fit in the new scheme that requires LBs to play a lot of underneath zone. He's got a lot to learn about leverage in McD's scheme, but that role is a huge plus. He's a player that plays the run very well and did a great job of working through traffic and getting sideline to sideline in college. Plus he was an effective pass rusher which could make him a great player to move around and provide the defense with some real flexibility. My concerns with him are all physical. Bama is known for getting everything possible out of their players at the expense of a lot of physical wear and tear. Lots of players come out of there beat up and having already topped out physically. Ragland is in the 33rd percentile of off the LOS LBs (SPARQ). That means he tested as good as or better than only 1 of 3 NFL players - starter or reserve - at that position group. Bama got him into as good of shape as imaginable so I don't think there's really any room for growth there. Then there's the physical nature of his play. That doesn't scream longevity or even 16 games a season to me. The optimist in me sees a sledgehammer who could be a flexible, complete and very effective 3 down MLB in McD's scheme. The realist in me see some very real reasons why that won't happen to the extent we'd all like. I hope things click and all goes well. It'll be interesting to see. SPARQ link: https://3sigmaathlete.com/rankings2016/lb/ Edited July 8, 2017 by BarleyNY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folz Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 Guys will miss some tackles, it's the NFL afterall. The guys on the other side are pretty damn good too. But, I am excited to watch guys who are not just willing tacklers and run defenders, but guys who actually seek contact and like to hit hard: Shaq, Reggie, Tre, etc. Goodbye to players like Gilmore who dance and backpedal away from contact. As most coaches will tell you, Xs and Os are valuable, but football always comes down to the basics: Blocking and tackling. Two yard runs that turn into eight yards or a ten yard run that turns into a TD due to missed tackles is what can kill a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george c Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 His 40 times are slow.. very slow. All hype, and no speed. Now, add in a torn ACL... Bitter disappointment coming. Want great linebacking? A dominating D? Start with some effing speed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 His 40 times are slow.. very slow. All hype, and no speed. Now, add in a torn ACL... Bitter disappointment coming. Want great linebacking? A dominating D? Start with some effing speed... Thomas Davis had three acl years and still is fine. This slowing down from acl. How bout John Ross? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 His 40 times are slow.. very slow. All hype, and no speed. Now, add in a torn ACL... Bitter disappointment coming. Want great linebacking? A dominating D? Start with some effing speed... Very slow? Gimme a break. 4.62 at his pro day. 4.72 at the combine. Thats not very slow. Do your homework.compare times of 20 of your favorite lbers of all time. Get back to me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george c Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 I hope for our sake that you guys are right. Problem is that he is still slow. Without speed, he comes off the field on third down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 I hope for our sake that you guys are right. Problem is that he is still slow. Without speed, he comes off the field on third down. And that would be ok. For a second round throwback...dont ya agree? He is an upgrade over Brown. He dont need to be the jewel of the D. Just play his role. Idt the star of the D is on our team yet. Hopefully a stud Wlb😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 (edited) me on ragland. the guy was pulled from the biggest game of his career. he has yet to play an nfl down lets not ointment him as the best ever. Jboyst Is there any particular reason you cant let a fan be excited about a highly touted draft pick without hyperbowling the crap out of it? Edited July 8, 2017 by John from Hemet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 (edited) Jboyst Is there any particular reason you cant let a fan be excited about a highly touted draft pick without hyperbowling the crap out of it? is there any reason i should be excited? you're the biggest kool aid drinking schmuck out there - and you down it by the hectoliter. how many times have you asked me this question when i said 1) manuel isn't great 2) we miss fitz 3) rex isn't great 4) watkins isnt' reliable e) any other countless times? why must you so apologetically ask to get spanked? there is nothing we can expect from reggie ragland right now. NOTHING. we don't know his game, he has yet to play. we can hope, we can pray, we can ask Allah, we can do a festive dance - but we cannot expect anything realistically in a scheme in which we do not know what to expect of a guy who doesn't fit the scheme and was overrated as hell in a system where he should have flourished in alabama. i will root for him. i have tried a dozen times to find a way we can use him. but i see nothing more than a guy who can play football at an average or less ability in this scheme and thats just not good enough for me. i can break down what exactly i see for you but you've proven time and time again that reality has no basis in your astute judgments. so, just spare yourself. ps. hyperbowling? dafuq? Edited July 8, 2017 by Boyst62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 is there any reason i should be excited? you're the biggest kool aid drinking schmuck out there - and you down it by the hectoliter. how many times have you asked me this question when i said 1) manuel isn't great 2) we miss fitz 3) rex isn't great 4) watkins isnt' reliable e) any other countless times? why must you so apologetically ask to get spanked? there is nothing we can expect from reggie ragland right now. NOTHING. we don't know his game, he has yet to play. we can hope, we can pray, we can ask Allah, we can do a festive dance - but we cannot expect anything realistically in a scheme in which we do not know what to expect of a guy who doesn't fit the scheme and was overrated as hell in a system where he should have flourished in alabama. i will root for him. i have tried a dozen times to find a way we can use him. but i see nothing more than a guy who can play football at an average or less ability in this scheme and thats just not good enough for me. i can break down what exactly i see for you but you've proven time and time again that reality has no basis in your astute judgments. so, just spare yourself. ps. hyperbowling? dafuq? Im not taking the bait on the name calling....I will simply report and let the mods deal with that issue Putting that aside....when I say "hyperbowling" NOBODY was annointing Reggie Ragland anything.....they were simply excited to see how a highly touted player who was said to be the best MLB of that particular draft......was having a great camp...and went down with a unfortunate injury. You piping in that fans shouldnt be excited about watching their draft picks play that might have promise is.....well....sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 Holy crap.Do you expect ANYTHING out of ANY draft pick, or just Ragging it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 Im not taking the bait on the name calling....I will simply report and let the mods deal with that issue Putting that aside....when I say "hyperbowling" NOBODY was annointing Reggie Ragland anything.....they were simply excited to see how a highly touted player who was said to be the best MLB of that particular draft......was having a great camp...and went down with a unfortunate injury. You piping in that fans shouldn't be excited about watching their draft picks play that might have promise is.....well....sorry agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 Im not taking the bait on the name calling....I will simply report and let the mods deal with that issue Putting that aside....when I say "hyperbowling" NOBODY was annointing Reggie Ragland anything.....they were simply excited to see how a highly touted player who was said to be the best MLB of that particular draft......was having a great camp...and went down with a unfortunate injury. You piping in that fans shouldnt be excited about watching their draft picks play that might have promise is.....well....sorry nothing will happen. and way to ignore everything else i've said about him. congrats on you playing your role here, fodder - that post about changing a while back really seems to have meant something. agree. johns just getting on his "i'm the victim" pedestal. he's read enoguh of my take on ragland that he just wants to play this card because he thinks something will happen. Holy crap.Do you expect ANYTHING out of ANY draft pick, or just Ragging it?? I don't have much hope in what ragland will bring to the field in being superior. i've stated numerous times, which jfh knows - he will be a player similar to brandon spikes in career path and ability to play. he is quicker side ot side and spikes was a better run stuffer but i do not see him having a long career and keep my hopes tempered as he hadn't even played a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 nothing will happen. and way to ignore everything else i've said about him. congrats on you playing your role here, fodder - that post about changing a while back really seems to have meant something. johns just getting on his "i'm the victim" pedestal. he's read enoguh of my take on ragland that he just wants to play this card because he thinks something will happen. I don't have much hope in what ragland will bring to the field in being superior. i've stated numerous times, which jfh knows - he will be a player similar to brandon spikes in career path and ability to play. he is quicker side ot side and spikes was a better run stuffer but i do not see him having a long career and keep my hopes tempered as he hadn't even played a long time. That's ecactly right. ..a Spikes clone, only younger and better. Worthy of watching.Worthy of hope. Worthy of a 2nd round pick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 nothing will happen. and way to ignore everything else i've said about him. congrats on you playing your role here, fodder - that post about changing a while back really seems to have meant something. johns just getting on his "i'm the victim" pedestal. he's read enoguh of my take on ragland that he just wants to play this card because he thinks something will happen. I don't have much hope in what ragland will bring to the field in being superior. i've stated numerous times, which jfh knows - he will be a player similar to brandon spikes in career path and ability to play. he is quicker side ot side and spikes was a better run stuffer but i do not see him having a long career and keep my hopes tempered as he hadn't even played a long time. First of all....I have not made any derogatory statements about you in any way......which is my new leaf I turned over some time ago....I now treat everyone respectfully regardless of their opinion and do not attack any more. I am simply stating that in my opinion it is not right for you to debbie downer every postitive thread a member here tries to create. You went the additional mile to say something that was not even true. The OP didnt annoint RR anything and was just excited to see the player...it is YOU that lashed out and attacked. I remain above personal attacks and will continue to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 Holy crap.Do you expect ANYTHING out of ANY draft pick, or just Ragging it?? i was very high on shaq lawson and still am. he will be a pro bowl player and fans will hate him here because he won't get the 14 sacks a season i think zay jones is going to be a good pick for us, won't have a season which we will proclaim him roy or anything extreme but has the markings to have a good career in the nfl. if ever we have had a chance to have brought in an andre reed type in the last 20something years, thats jones white - i dont' know, i dont' know enoguh about where seymour will play and how darby can rebound. but i like that he is on our roster and wish he could play inside before outside but we may not have anyone outside worth a can of beans - seymour is meh in my books milano - special teams? i don't know much about him. but he can't be that bad because a lot of people like him dawkins would be a great steal if he can play rt. and maybe slide over to rg if miller doesnt' play well, i have had concerns there about him at rg last year and he didnt' do well toward the end peterman - another brian brohm or jeff tuel vallejo could be a special teams ace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffAlone Posted July 8, 2017 Share Posted July 8, 2017 i was very high on shaq lawson and still am. he will be a pro bowl player and fans will hate him here because he won't get the 14 sacks a season i think zay jones is going to be a good pick for us, won't have a season which we will proclaim him roy or anything extreme but has the markings to have a good career in the nfl. if ever we have had a chance to have brought in an andre reed type in the last 20something years, thats jones white - i dont' know, i dont' know enoguh about where seymour will play and how darby can rebound. but i like that he is on our roster and wish he could play inside before outside but we may not have anyone outside worth a can of beans - seymour is meh in my books milano - special teams? i don't know much about him. but he can't be that bad because a lot of people like him dawkins would be a great steal if he can play rt. and maybe slide over to rg if miller doesnt' play well, i have had concerns there about him at rg last year and he didnt' do well toward the end peterman - another brian brohm or jeff tuel vallejo could be a special teams ace Well why the Ragland hate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts