Are the Bills back to being the NFL's farm team?

[Boatdrinks]

Two years ago we poached $91MM in free agents from other teams.

Exactly. That's the price paid ( usually a much higher price) when you draft poorly and need to use FA to fill the holes. We know the Bills don't value CB's to pay them second contracts. I generally would agree with this philosophy. They have been largely unsuccessful drafting TEs , WRs and even pass rushers and have resorted to FAs and trades to get them.

[Heavy Kevi]

dont forget, the cheaters are in a unique position bc they have the goat at the most lopsided position in modern history. they can twist everybodys arm to take less money than they could get elsewhere for a chance to drink from marcias magic fountain of rings. sucks for the rest of us but they have that gift right now and arent afraid to turn the screws and then just trade guys who wont play along

 

the rest of the team mostly have to pay market value or above to get their stars to stay. its a big disadvantage for the rest of the division teams especially bc they have to face them twice every year. it is what it is. and it sucks

It really is true, meathead. I hate to say it but it's true. They have the combo of great coach, great QB, and everyone else signs a $1 contract just to get rings. I ****ing hate it but as Johnny Cash sang "I don't like it but I guess things happen that way".

[Watkins_deep]

Drafting players, developing them, letting them walk, and then drafting to fill the holes they left was the worst thing about the last decade of Ralph's ownership. Nate Clements, Antoine Winfield, Jason Peters, Marshawn Lynch, the list goes on. The Bills had gotten away from this under Pegula by retaining a lot of good talent like Dareus, Glenn, and Wood but now we seem to going back to the way things were.

 

We let Gilmore and Woods, two good players that we drafted walk in free agency leaving us with CB and WR as probably our biggest holes going into the draft. And in typical Bills fashion, we'll probably just be spinning our wheels this weekend by replacing a 1st and 2nd round CB/WR we drafted with another 1st and 2nd round CB/WR we draft while other teams pay the players we developed to improve their teams. None of the players drafted by the Bills in 2013 are on the team, and there is only 1 from each of 2011 and 2012, which is just incredible.

 

A lot of this can be blamed on Whaley's awful cap management, but I feel like the organization still just doesn't want to hand out real contracts to good (i.e., not blockbuster and not depth) players, sticking with massively overpaying for a few marquee free agents (and Dareus, although he is supremely talented) and signing the rest of the roster off the scrap heap to 1-year prove-it deals.

 

And yes, I realize letting Byrd leave and go on to be a massive free agency bust runs opposite to this, but the exception proves the rule. Good teams win by nurturing the talent they draft.

The nfl is different now with everything outside qb being a reload similar to college recruiting. For the life of me( and its bs its hard to trade down) i dont get why teams dont trade down multiple times. Every year id make sure to have at least 2 picks in each round or close to it. Plus rookie contracts are only 4 yrs now like college and with jrs coming out more than ever some of these kids are only 20-21....

My goal as gm of the bills with no franchise qb is to continue to pick a qb but to develop a roster so deep that my 2s are like other teams ones. More picks = more high end talent

Basically the jimmy johnson approach

[KD in CA]

Two years ago we poached $91MM in free agents from other teams.

 

And we're still dealing with the fallout from the resulting lack of comp picks.

[Watkins_deep]

 

And we're still dealing with the fallout from the resulting lack of comp picks.

id trade back in the first and then out of the first every yr. Pats do it a ton

[iinii]

It really is true, meathead. I hate to say it but it's true. They have the combo of great coach, great QB, and everyone else signs a $1 contract just to get rings. I ****ing hate it but as Johnny Cash sang "I don't like it but I guess things happen that way".

Funny how songs can be so universally true. Jordan did the same thing, took everybody's lunch money. So many teams were left at the alter because of that one guy.

[Webster Guy]

dont forget, the cheaters are in a unique position bc they have the goat at the most lopsided position in modern history. they can twist everybodys arm to take less money than they could get elsewhere for a chance to drink from marcias magic fountain of rings. sucks for the rest of us but they have that gift right now and arent afraid to turn the screws and then just trade guys who wont play along

 

the rest of the team mostly have to pay market value or above to get their stars to stay. its a big disadvantage for the rest of the division teams especially bc they have to face them twice every year. it is what it is. and it sucks

They've lost as much talent to FA as anyone else. Average team with great QB. It's all you need.

[Buddo]

It's got to the stage where getting cheap FAs has got to be part of a teams recruitment strategy. Identifying those guys who are just about to 'break out', will be an important part of filling holes. The biggest problem is in terms of the shorter contracts that are able to be signed by drafted players. While in theory it was supposed to allow players to get to a big payday quicker, in practice, alongside of the limitations on practices etc., it's simply meant that turnover is greater, as guys either get it quickly, or are gone.

 

The current system for players, very much lends itself to the rich get richer, and devil take the hindmost.

 

As things stand, the NFL has a problem, in that development of players, isn't given the opportunity to happen, as much as it should. Imho, they really need to look at creating another tier of teams, based in the USA, that lets some of the guys come through, in the way that the NFLE did, on a limited basis. I think it would be a godsend for QBs, but would also keep a lot of guys around who could become good, starting NFL players, given time to adapt and learn.

 

Pretty much all NFL teams are likely to have someone 'poached' at some point of time, the Bills got looked at due to being tight against the cap, next year, it will probably be another team who loses guys they would like to keep, due to not being able to afford them.

 

Fwiw, losing Gilmore only really hurts due to where he's gone. I don't believe for one moment that he was going to get paid what he wanted, by any team using a base zone secondary. He's simply not worth it, not because he isn't a good player, but because his salary will not fit within what you want to pay for your secondary, when you are using zone coverages, as opposed to man coverages.

[BillsFan4]

You make this sound so easy, but it takes two to tango. Dareus and Glenn have no incentive to restructure. "For the good of the team" is not a strong argument when the team is circling the drain.

They are not referring to a restructure like Tyrod did, where they would take a pay cut.

 

They are talking about a restructure, as in converting some of this year's salary into a signing bonus, that is then spread out over the rest of the years of the contract. I'm not even sure if they need the player's permission to do it, as they're not taking a pay cut but just receiving more money up front. I can't imagine a guy saying no anyway. But there's draw backs to it for the team.

 

It would free up about $7 M each in cap space this year (roughly $14M-$15M total). But then both of their cap hits would be higher in each of the next years of their deal (roughly a $2 to $3 million higher per year, I believe, but I'm not exactly sure). It would also make their dead cap hits higher too, and make it harder to move on from them before their 5 year deals expire, because if they were released all of that restructured money that is left would hit the cap the year they were released (as it couldn't continue to be spread out over the length of the deal anymore).

 

It creates cap space for this season, but it's basically just kicking the can down the road. So IMO, I see it as one of those "if we really have to do it" options. I think they'll probably try to avoid it if they can.

Edited April 24, 2017 by BillsFan4

[nucci]

Drafting players, developing them, letting them walk, and then drafting to fill the holes they left was the worst thing about the last decade of Ralph's ownership. Nate Clements, Antoine Winfield, Jason Peters, Marshawn Lynch, the list goes on. The Bills had gotten away from this under Pegula by retaining a lot of good talent like Dareus, Glenn, and Wood but now we seem to going back to the way things were.

 

We let Gilmore and Woods, two good players that we drafted walk in free agency leaving us with CB and WR as probably our biggest holes going into the draft. And in typical Bills fashion, we'll probably just be spinning our wheels this weekend by replacing a 1st and 2nd round CB/WR we drafted with another 1st and 2nd round CB/WR we draft while other teams pay the players we developed to improve their teams. None of the players drafted by the Bills in 2013 are on the team, and there is only 1 from each of 2011 and 2012, which is just incredible.

 

A lot of this can be blamed on Whaley's awful cap management, but I feel like the organization still just doesn't want to hand out real contracts to good (i.e., not blockbuster and not depth) players, sticking with massively overpaying for a few marquee free agents (and Dareus, although he is supremely talented) and signing the rest of the roster off the scrap heap to 1-year prove-it deals.

 

And yes, I realize letting Byrd leave and go on to be a massive free agency bust runs opposite to this, but the exception proves the rule. Good teams win by nurturing the talent they draft.

Yes, The Bills are the only team in the league that loses players to free agency

[Blokestradamus]

There is a misconception that they have cap issues. They easily could have signed Woods and Gilmore. They have the Dareus and Glenn restructures to use at any point. Deciding Gilmore isn't worth $14M a year doesn't mean they couldn't afford him. They thought in both cases that the value wasn't there.

 

I saw Sal tweeting a couple days ago that he's glad that they didn't go for those restructures because that's partly why they've had recent cap trouble.

 

The way that the NFL works is that, if you're not a top team, you're resigned to spinning your wheels a little bit. You hold no leverage over players to offer them market value.

[Best Player Available]

There is a misconception that they have cap issues. They easily could have signed Woods and Gilmore. They have the Dareus and Glenn restructures to use at any point. Deciding Gilmore isn't worth $14M a year doesn't mean they couldn't afford him. They thought in both cases that the value wasn't there.

Losing Woods was huge. I don't know if they even made him an offer.

I never saw him take a play off. and,his blocking was excellant for a receiver.

I hope he does well. So much for retaining homegrown talent. Whatever OBD

decided on value is their mistake. The Woods contract will be at the low end salary wise

by the time year 4 comes around. Wait for the outrage when #14's contract comes up.

[nucci]

Losing Woods was huge. I don't know if they even made him an offer.

I never saw him take a play off. and,his blocking was excellant for a receiver.

I hope he does well. So much for retaining homegrown talent. Whatever OBD

decided on value is their mistake. The Woods contract will be at the low end salary wise

by the time year 4 comes around. Wait for the outrage when #14's contract comes up.

brilliant...of course it will. Salary cap and salaries increase every year. You would have been ok with the Bills giving Woods this contract?

[jeffismagic]

The Buffalo Bills are doing exactly what the top brass in the NFL wants. Lose to New England twice a year and keep their fans somewhat engaged despite no chance at playoffs. They don't want us to have a top pick because we might take a top QB and they don't want us to make the playoffs.

 

They want the Bills to win 6 or 7 games a year. They even praised us for hiring Sean McDermott which was a huge red flag to me as nobody wants the Bills to improve except WNY fans.

[baskingridgebillsfan]

id trade back in the first and then out of the first every yr. Pats do it a ton

have you seen the players the pats draft ?

[Kirby Jackson]

Losing Woods was huge. I don't know if they even made him an offer.

I never saw him take a play off. and,his blocking was excellant for a receiver.

I hope he does well. So much for retaining homegrown talent. Whatever OBD

decided on value is their mistake. The Woods contract will be at the low end salary wise

by the time year 4 comes around. Wait for the outrage when #14's contract comes up.

I actually feel the exact opposite on the player. I think Woods plays hard. I do not think, in any world, Woods gets $6.8M a year with $15M guaranteed. You cannot have guys like Woods making that kind of money. It won't be hard to replicate his production at a fraction of the price.

[baskingridgebillsfan]

The Buffalo Bills are doing exactly what the top brass in the NFL wants. Lose to New England twice a year and keep their fans somewhat engaged despite no chance at playoffs. They don't want us to have a top pick because we might take a top QB and they don't want us to make the playoffs.

 

They want the Bills to win 6 or 7 games a year. They even praised us for hiring Sean McDermott which was a huge red flag to me as nobody wants the Bills to improve except WNY fans.

oh boy, so it is a conspiracy . how high do you think it goes , just the nfl or is it a national security issue. Did the Nfl want other teams to be bad during the early 90's. if the head went back and to the right could it really be oswald. Did Fdr know the attack was coming, Building number 7 .

[Best Player Available]

brilliant...of course it will. Salary cap and salaries increase every year. You would have been ok with the Bills giving Woods this contract?

Yes, Overpaying underperforming players is in part the reason they have cap issues.

Woods dealt with underperforming QB's. Keeping him would have eased the need for a receiver

this draft. His receiving numbers weren't great. But it was not all his fault when the ball is thrown 5 yards

behnd him. And I liked his blocking. He imo was worth the $$$$$ unlike say charles Clay. Percy

Harvin.

[8-8 Forever?]

wonder how the board would have reacted if they didn't resign Glenn and Darius . This is just my opinion but I got the feeling Gilmore really didn't want to resign

neither did Peters. neither did Lynch... Their agents got them out of dodge b4 their careers were ruined by staying with this franchise. this is the actual story.. most high talent guys simply do not want to be in WNY when they can be in far more interesting, successful places, get pro bowl visibility and personal endorsement brand equity boost, for more money... . and they have been proven correct. Who wants to play 1pm every stinkin' Sunday in front of the smallest NFL audiences... the money is irrelevant..if they're good, they'll get their $$, they want to choose where and their agents work diligently to give them choices. WNY is just not a popular spot for marketable rock star athletes. For the Kyle Williams, Fitzy family types, the "local rugby club" Bills environment is great, but most young rock star NFL guys are not in that stage of life.

 

Unless the Bills draft incredibly well year after year and trap that talent in B Lo for 4 years, they're going nowhere. Without a top 10 QB they're going nowhere no matter what, but that's a different topic.

Edited April 24, 2017 by jmcraig44

[baskingridgebillsfan]

Losing Woods was huge. I don't know if they even made him an offer.

I never saw him take a play off. and,his blocking was excellant for a receiver.

I hope he does well. So much for retaining homegrown talent. Whatever OBD

decided on value is their mistake. The Woods contract will be at the low end salary wise

by the time year 4 comes around. Wait for the outrage when #14's contract comes up.

paying woods 8 million per is crazy talk. I might have been in a 5 or 6 even then I would feel like I was over paying.

neither did Peters. neither did Lynch... Their agents got them out of dodge b4 their careers were ruined by staying with this franchise. this is the actual story.. guys simply do not want to he in WNY.. and they have been proven correct.

it happens to every team. they all lose players. My point wasn't a western new York thing it was a Gilmore thing.