iinii Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Maybe the Bills should stop hiring Steelers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 I'm all for tempering expectations and not getting too high or too low in things like this, but to me Whaley is getting the shaft in much of the discussion around his tenure with Buffalo. First, like it or not Nix was the GM at time EJ was Drafted and whether DW was singing his praises or not, Nix pulled the trigger - that's on him, or accountability and leadership mean nothing. Second, let's not forget he did trade for arguably the best RB since Thurman to come to Buffalo and he's done well enough with guys like Hughes, and Brown Brothers at LB, Darby, and a number of other moves that did well on the field, i.e. Incognito. However, he also gets the blame for QB carousel and NOT finding a long-term solution, for the Watkins trade - not Watkins the player himself - but the trade cost too much for what he got in return, and for some of the other players who have not performed as expected. Basically, I believe I would put him in the middle of the pack and say that this current Draft is his final show to decide whether he should remain the Buffalo zip code or go find housing somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billz4life820 Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 So basically nothing is Whaleys fault. Got it. there will always be excuses for Whaley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan4 Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 (edited) The Good- Trading for Jerry Hughes, Signing Ritchie Incognito, trading for LeSean McCoy The Bad- Trading up for Sammy Watkins, having the lowest amount of starting draft picks since his tenure in the league, Drafting EJ Manuel, The hiring of Rex Ryan, his drafting in general has been awful (only Dareus remains from the 2011 draft, only Cordy Glenn remains from 2012 draft, only Jonathan Meeks remains from 2013 draft). Way too much bad for me and I think he is definitely deserving of his ranking imo. Technically, Whaley wasn't GM for any of those drafts you listed. His first draft as actual GM was 2014. We can argue how much say he had in those drafts, but none of us know for sure. They very well could have been all Whaley, but we don't really know. Also, are you sure about him having the lowest number of starters in his tenure? When is that measured from, 2010-2016/17? Or 2014-2017? Just curious. Do you have a link? Not saying I don't believe you. I'd just like to see the info for myself. I hadn't heard that about Whaley. I'd be interested to read it. I recently came across an article that ranked the starters from the first 3 rounds from 2010-2015 and it had the Bills 6th in the NFL. It has probably changed since then because the Bills lost some starters to FA, but they were still drafted by Buffalo... http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2016/3/2/11145156/2010-2015-nfl-drafts-team-by-team-draft-success-in-first-three-rounds Edited April 18, 2017 by BillsFan4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Cthulhu Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 The press leaks haven't been kind to Whaley, especially in the national coverage. Those paint the whole ship in a bad light. But overall, Whaley's been pretty decent from a strict personnel standpoint. Moreso in free agency than the draft, but still. I think the current narrative is Whaley's had his wings clipped by ownership (and perhaps Brandon, and the head coaches, who have all been owner-hired) and thus doesn't really wield that much power anymore. If that's true, then sure he ranks towards the bottom, simply by reason of being ineffectual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billz4life820 Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 I'm all for tempering expectations and not getting too high or too low in things like this, but to me Whaley is getting the shaft in much of the discussion around his tenure with Buffalo. First, like it or not Nix was the GM at time EJ was Drafted and whether DW was singing his praises or not, Nix pulled the trigger - that's on him, or accountability and leadership mean nothing. Second, let's not forget he did trade for arguably the best RB since Thurman to come to Buffalo and he's done well enough with guys like Hughes, and Brown Brothers at LB, Darby, and a number of other moves that did well on the field, i.e. Incognito. However, he also gets the blame for QB carousel and NOT finding a long-term solution, for the Watkins trade - not Watkins the player himself - but the trade cost too much for what he got in return, and for some of the other players who have not performed as expected. Basically, I believe I would put him in the middle of the pack and say that this current Draft is his final show to decide whether he should remain the Buffalo zip code or go find housing somewhere else. excuses excuses excuses..... whats the win/loss record of the roster he built? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 I must be the only one who doesn't think he is all that bad CBF No you're not. I think he's done just fine. Just needs to hit on a qb and a head coach. Those are two prime tasks for a GM, so he is judged primarily on that by many. If McDermott comes up lame and if he doesn't land a qb by next offseason I believe his job is on the line. Not yet though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 He's #1 in passing the buck on things that didn't turn out well. He had quite the Amen Corner on BBMB, they'd have defended him if he rang up 3 0-16 seasons. So is this the year he is finally going to accept responsibility for anything to do with his job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billz4life820 Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 The press leaks haven't been kind to Whaley, especially in the national coverage. Those paint the whole ship in a bad light. But overall, Whaley's been pretty decent from a strict personnel standpoint. Moreso in free agency than the draft, but still. I think the current narrative is Whaley's had his wings clipped by ownership (and perhaps Brandon, and the head coaches, who have all been owner-hired) and thus doesn't really wield that much power anymore. If that's true, then sure he ranks towards the bottom, simply by reason of being ineffectual. Whaley himself said you have to build through the draft and we have the fewest draft picks on the roster than any team in the nfl..... you cannot rely on Free Agency He's #1 in passing the buck on things that didn't turn out well. He had quite the Amen Corner on BBMB, they'd have defended him if he rang up 3 0-16 seasons. So is this the year he is finally going to accept responsibility for anything to do with his job? I am sure there will be an excuse for this season if it blows up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 No you're not. I think he's done just fine. Just needs to hit on a qb and a head coach. Those are two prime tasks for a GM, so he is judged primarily on that by many. If McDermott comes up lame and if he doesn't land a qb by next offseason I believe his job is on the line. Not yet though Exactly. And our new owners hired Rex and allowed Rex to handpick Taylor. How that can be Whaley's fault is beyond me. Whaley was instrumental in building a top 5 defense. Only to be ruined by the Pegula-picked Rex Ryan and Co. Yes ... he whiffed on EJ. But the defense he HAD would have made it a lot easier to find this "franchise QB" that everyone thinks is so easy to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBuff423 Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 excuses excuses excuses..... whats the win/loss record of the roster he built? I understand your premise (I believe), but what you're saying is - it's on him how Rex performed with the talent he acquired? So, Belichick would have had this team in the Super Bowl? If that's your premise, then Whaley did a hell of a job and if it's not, what you're saying is the HC and his staff - and with the recent story coming out about Rex giving Rob the run of the building - plays little part in the ability to win....? So, which is it? And I'm just wondering because the broad statement such as the one you made, leaves too much room for interpretation.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 excuses excuses excuses..... whats the win/loss record of the roster he built? He's failed at landing a franchise qb and a good head coach. Other than that, he's done a fine job of acquiring talent. If he can hit on the HC or the QB by 2018 seasons start his job will be safe. We may have the coach in McDermott. I love what I've seen so far from him but let's see results. Whaleys overall record isn't that bad especially considering he had Rex Ryan as a coach for 2 years. Those that continue to cry about him are going to be miserable for the next couples years imo. I think his job is safe for 2 years at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Billieve Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 It's hard for me to evaluate Whaley, having a new coach every two years seems like a surer recipe for failure than not having a top 10 QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 excuses excuses excuses..... whats the win/loss record of the roster he built? Right around .500 with a complete blowhard and his numbskull brother coaching. I'd say that's pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 (edited) It is ridiculous to take the position of his won-loss record or the talent not improving. Facts paint an 8-8 team that topped out at 9 wins and prior to that was winning 4-6 every year. The talent as measured by SRS(power ratings) on Football reference also supports a team in the middle that if anything could have a won more games! Also, I don't know how anyone could watch the Bills coaching in game, and NOT think that they bear the brunt of the criticism that we are not a playoff team. We have pissed away games and not been ready to play at the wrong times. Edited April 18, 2017 by horned dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 Exactly. And our new owners hired Rex and allowed Rex to handpick Taylor. How that can be Whaley's fault is beyond me. Whaley was instrumental in building a top 5 defense. Only to be ruined by the Pegula-picked Rex Ryan and Co. Yes ... he whiffed on EJ. But the defense he HAD would have made it a lot easier to find this "franchise QB" that everyone thinks is so easy to find. Last two seasons would have been playoffs if the defense was what it was supposed to be. TT is not the problem. Exactly. And our new owners hired Rex and allowed Rex to handpick Taylor. How that can be Whaley's fault is beyond me. Whaley was instrumental in building a top 5 defense. Only to be ruined by the Pegula-picked Rex Ryan and Co. Yes ... he whiffed on EJ. But the defense he HAD would have made it a lot easier to find this "franchise QB" that everyone thinks is so easy to find. TT is one of the few bright spots. Whaley is a bad GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 He isnt that bad. I am with you on this. The article is conjecture - look at it this way...If the Bills draft a QB in Rounds 1 or 2, did Whaley lose the supposed argument at QB? That would indicate to me that he won - since Taylor will obviously be supplanted within a year or two. Does anybody actually believe that a former D-Coordinator now has the keys to the castle at OBD? That would be insane. Yes. It is insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Murica Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 It's weird, as I read that he orchestrated the EJ Manuel, I remember Buddy was still the GM and that isn't it common knowledge Doug wanted to trade back again out of 16 but Buddy decided to pull the trigger on EJ at 16? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tisker A Tasker Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 (edited) "Since, hes trafficked in big names and bold moves, but not enough wins. Whaley has been a bad drafter whose best pick, Sammy Watkins, was made only after a questionable trade up in the deepest receiver class of all time." I think the '96 Draft might have something to say about that. Eric Moulds Keyshawn Johnson Terry Glenn Eddie Kennison Marvin Harrison Amani Toomer Mushin Mohammad Terrell Owens Joe Horn Jermaine Lewis Edited April 18, 2017 by Tisker A Tasker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2009 Posted April 18, 2017 Share Posted April 18, 2017 It's weird, as I read that he orchestrated the EJ Manuel, I remember Buddy was still the GM and that isn't it common knowledge Doug wanted to trade back again out of 16 but Buddy decided to pull the trigger on EJ at 16? Whaley was high on EJ and claimed he had the "it" factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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