Kirby Jackson Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 I mean when every stat is better (you ignored fumbles lost), one is clearly better. Dalton has more TD's, less INT's, better YPP, better completion, less sacks, etc etc etc. You continue to post that TT is worse than Dalton in every single stat and you don't understand why he's clearly better? You are using alternative facts. Dalton has more INTs and I didn't see fumbles lost on there but went to another spot to check and Dalton lost more. You said "it is insanity" and that is why I went through that exercise (again). Let's look at the facts instead of what we think is reality. They aren't terribly different. They are pretty close in just about everything but sacks. Dalton has the advantage but also has played with the superior pass catchers. Again, Dalton is underrated in real life and on this list. He's a good QB. actually, Tyrod is 14-14.We use 15-14 here because that's really what happened. He did "start" that game just didn't take the first snap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Came here to say EJ was too high, but he didn't even make the list. . Actually, you would think that EJ should be pretty high up on the list given the vociferous support here given to him ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 FC, how do you expect to persuade people by using wild speculation instead of logic & facts? Haven't you learned anything from the Commander and Chief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talley56 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 The Sam Bradford at 15 is IMO destroying any credibility this list may have. 7 years, never made the playoffs, and he's ahead of guys who've gotten there consistently like Dalton (granted, he's had AJ Green to throw to), Flacco who has won a Superbowl, and Eli who has won 2 Superbowls. Also think Stafford is too high and it's too soon to put WInston, Mariota, and Wentz as high as they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 (edited) You are using alternative facts. Dalton has more INTs and I didn't see fumbles lost on there but went to another spot to check and Dalton lost more. You said "it is insanity" and that is why I went through that exercise (again). Let's look at the facts instead of what we think is reality. They aren't terribly different. They are pretty close in just about everything but sacks. Dalton has the advantage but also has played with the superior pass catchers. Again, Dalton is underrated in real life and on this list. He's a good QB. We use 15-14 here because that's really what happened. He did "start" that game just didn't take the first snap. Here is the problem. They are "pretty close" doesn't mean to you what it does to me. You see a WR who catches 100 balls for 1400 yards and 10 TDs and a WR who catches 80 balls for 1200 yard and 8 TD's and you don't think one is better than the other. I disagree. The stats bear out that Dalton is superior in just about every category. On a per throw basis, better. On a gross stat basis, better. On an eye test basis, better. On a consistent level on success in the NFL basis, better. He has thrown 3 more INT's. That's all TT has got. But it's easy to not throw picks when you play not to lose. The argument is not "would you take TT on the Bengals over Dalton on the Bills." The argument is that Dalton has clearly performed and played better than TT. The stats bear that out, repeatedly. Making the argument that 2 guys are "close" when 90% of the stats (not an exaggeration) are one sided is ridiculous. There is a reason that one was an MVP candidate in 2015. http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/183541/five-reasons-why-andy-dalton-is-the-leading-mvp-candidate Like come on please. Dalton has shown he can lead a team to 10+ wins repeatedly. He has shown he can bring a team back repeatedly. You can continue to do your exercise of demonstrating that TT is worse than Dalton in just about every stat you link and then telling me it's crazy to think he's obviously better. It's an interesting tactic. It's like telling me EJ's rookie year was close to Derek Carr's, except for all the numbers being better for Carr. Someone's bias is clouding their judgment here, but it ain't me. Edited April 5, 2017 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Here is the problem. They are "pretty close" doesn't mean to you what it does to me. You see a WR who catches 100 balls for 1400 yards and 10 TDs and a WR who catches 80 balls for 1200 yard and 8 TD's and you don't think one is better than the other. I disagree. The stats bear out that Dalton is superior in just about every category. On a per throw basis, better. On a gross stat basis, better. On an eye test basis, better. On a consistent level on success in the NFL basis, better. He has thrown 3 more INT's. That's all TT has got. But it's easy to not throw picks when you play not to lose. The argument is not "would you take TT on the Bengals over Dalton on the Bills." The argument is that Dalton has clearly performed and played better than TT. The stats bear that out, repeatedly. Making the argument that 2 guys are "close" when 90% of the stats (not an exaggeration) are one sided is ridiculous. There is a reason that one was an MVP candidate in 2015. http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/183541/five-reasons-why-andy-dalton-is-the-leading-mvp-candidate Like come on please. Dalton has shown he can lead a team to 10+ wins repeatedly. He has shown he can bring a team back repeatedly. You can continue to do your exercise of demonstrating that TT is worse than Dalton in just about every stat you link and then telling me it's crazy to think he's obviously better. It's an interesting tactic. It's like telling me EJ's rookie year was close to Derek Carr's, except for all the numbers being better for Carr. Someone's bias is clouding their judgment here, but it ain't me. Please feel free to quote on here where I said that I would take TT over Dalton? I'll wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Please feel free to quote on here where I said that I would take TT over Dalton? I'll wait... You've agreed with me this whole time that Dalton is clearly better than TT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Cam at 16?! I wonder if he tore his acl from jerking his knee so hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 You've agreed with me this whole time that Dalton is clearly better than TT? Pretty sure Kirby just puts Tyrod and Dalton in the same general tier of how far they can take you. Both need quality, healthy weapons around them and a good defense that generates some turnovers to be effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFlutie Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Pretty sure Kirby just puts Tyrod and Dalton in the same general tier of how far they can take you. Both need quality, healthy weapons around them and a good defense that generates some turnovers to be effective. And that's more than most teams have. Many posters lament that we didn't draft Dalton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 And that's more than most teams have. Many posters lament that we didn't draft Dalton. Just looking at that list, it looks like more than what about 6-7 teams have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Maiden Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 I would move Tyrod to 14th on the list. His overall value is better than Flacco, Wentz, Tannehill, Newton, Manning, Bradford and Rivers. I would take those 2 over TT any day.....The Bills are a better team with either guy...And I like TT..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 (edited) Always fun that Bills fans try to pretend the Bengals haven't had a run that is infinitely better than the Bills the last 10 years. Hard to gauge though, 50 times zero playoffs is still zero, same for 1,000,000 times zero playoffs. Edited April 5, 2017 by row_33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Pretty sure Kirby just puts Tyrod and Dalton in the same general tier of how far they can take you. Both need quality, healthy weapons around them and a good defense that generates some turnovers to be effective. Exactly I was reading somewhere on Trubisky that he might turn into Dalton. I like Dalton, but my point is that we are just about getting that now. I would never use the 10th pick on a guy that may turn out to be a little better than what we have. That is my issue with this QB class. The guys that are safer (Trubisky and Watson) don't have much higher ceilings (IMO) than what we are getting. The other 2 that will go early have fairly high bust potential. The Bills aren't in a position to go backwards. There is obviously a chance that some end up better (1 or 2 probably will). I have been a proponent of the 2018 class. I think that there are guys in that group that can be really good. Maybe it wont be the 2004 class but it can be the Jameis/Mariota class. That is when I would take my shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Always fun that Bills fans try to pretend the Bengals haven't had a run that is infinitely better than the Bills the last 10 years. Hard to gauge though, 50 times zero playoffs is still zero, same for 1,000,000 times zero playoffs. Over the past decade neither team has won a playoff game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheElectricCompany Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Andrew Luck is way too high. Has he consistently performed as a top 10 QB throughout his career? I don't think so. Cam is a top 10 QB - no doubt about it, he just had an off year. Those are the only glaring issues I have with this list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 I remember when there were arguments about who was better: EJ or Geno. In the end, it didn't matter. Neither are in the top 32. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Over the past decade neither team has won a playoff game. How many has each played in? How much double digit win seasons have each had? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Andrew Luck is way too high. Has he consistently performed as a top 10 QB throughout his career? I don't think so. Cam is a top 10 QB - no doubt about it, he just had an off year. Those are the only glaring issues I have with this list. Based on his historical QB ratings , his 2015 MVP season was actualy more of the anomaly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffismagic Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 Exactly I was reading somewhere on Trubisky that he might turn into Dalton. I like Dalton, but my point is that we are just about getting that now. I would never use the 10th pick on a guy that may turn out to be a little better than what we have. That is my issue with this QB class. The guys that are safer (Trubisky and Watson) don't have much higher ceilings (IMO) than what we are getting. The other 2 that will go early have fairly high bust potential. The Bills aren't in a position to go backwards. There is obviously a chance that some end up better (1 or 2 probably will). I have been a proponent of the 2018 class. I think that there are guys in that group that can be really good. Maybe it wont be the 2004 class but it can be the Jameis/Mariota class. That is when I would take my shot. The problem with waiting for a Luck/Winston/Mariota is the Bills haven't finished with a top 2 pick in over 3 decades. So even if we had a 1 2 QB combo that was awesome the Bills wouldn't get one. After you clear two top QB's then you are looking at prospects that are weaker than what the Bills can choose this year at ten. The only way you can sell a wait for next year QB class is if your team has a plan for getting there. That is obviously not happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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