FireChan Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 So a few of you are working yourselves up into an anti-Whaley frenzy based upon a 'report' of questionable authenticity ? Is that a good summary of the last few hours of posts ? How many times have we seen reports of a schism between the HC and GM since Whaley has been a GM? How much smoke do you need to see come out of the windows before you suspect a fire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blitzboy54 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 (edited) So a few of you are working yourselves up into an anti-Whaley frenzy based upon a 'report' of questionable authenticity ? Is that a good summary of the last few hours of posts ?I don't know if "worked up" is right, but for close to 20 years it's always dysfunctional. Always. So this report rings true because this is how it usually goes. It also tracks that Russ is still involved and the guys responsible for the extension are the ones that want to get out of it. This fits, these guys have never had a plan and jump from one thing to the next with no real idea what they want to do. Will spend out of their minds for a tight end but run for the hills on middling QB money. Edited March 4, 2017 by blitzboy54 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Well he can atone by sending a qb whose not a passer on his merry way. My man johnnyp has a nice Whaley thread for ya. Cutting a bum ain't good enough to get my vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 yea because vic's source at beginning of last season was totally off on saying rex was playing under threat of playoffs or bust (sarcasm). still say russ is your leaker.....he has lost full control over football operations and this is a way for him to effect the outcome. new QB = hope = ticket sales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 (edited) Nothing concrete, just a few clues.(1) there were some reports from Baltimore that Tyrod and Dennison had a good relationship and Kubiak praised Taylor for picking up his system (2) when Kubiak goes to Denver he tries signing Tyrod in FA, (3) after Manning retires reports surfaced in Denver again that Denver was interested in trading for Tyrod at the draft last year. Based on the above, it seems clear to me that Kubiak liked Tyrod a good deal. I look at Kubiak and Dennison as one in the same as they have been together for so long. Denver went after Tyrod twice when Dennison was OC there, he must have been on same page with Kubiak. Now if you believe all that, McDermott goes ahead and hires an OC that has worked with Tyrod and likes him as a QB. He knows what Dennison thinks about tyrod during their interviews. McDermott must have agreed with Dennison's assessment of tyrod or else he does not hire him. To me it is clear that Whaley wants to move on (seems to be enamored by Cardale) and the HC and OC would like to keep Tyrod. Again, this all seems pretty logical but it is still just guess work. Well said. And I'll add that these points support the idea that the bills may have an interest in Siemian. Perhaps Denison prefers Siemian but, absent that option, wants Tyrod. Edited March 4, 2017 by SectionC3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 That's a horrible summary. Half the posters don't believe the report, the other half don't care whether it's true or not - it doesn't change the fact that Whaley is incompetent and needs to be shown the door. But the OP is about this report, correct ? You are entitled to your opinion about Whaley but using this 'report' as a discussion point is mighty weak, IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Arnold Posted March 4, 2017 Author Share Posted March 4, 2017 yea because vic's source at beginning of last season was totally off on saying rex was playing under threat of playoffs or bust (sarcasm). still say russ is your leaker.....he has lost full control over football operations and this is a way for him to effect the outcome. new QB = hope = ticket sales For the record, Vic's report was that both Rex and Whaley were under the threat of playoffs or bust. Which turned out incorrect. But the OP is about this report, correct ? You are entitled to your opinion about Whaley but using this 'report' as a discussion point is mighty weak, IMHO Ten pages and counting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 yea because vic's source at beginning of last season was totally off on saying rex was playing under threat of playoffs or bust (sarcasm). still say russ is your leaker.....he has lost full control over football operations and this is a way for him to effect the outcome. new QB = hope = ticket sales This leak isnt Russ. No way Russ would say he made the call on Tyrod. But don't doubt that Russ talks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 How many times have we seen reports of a schism between the HC and GM since Whaley has been a GM? How much smoke do you need to see come out of the windows before you suspect a fire? Frankly, much of the consternation is a result of losing. Do you really blame Whaley for not being in sync with Ryan ? I can also twist this argument to say that Whaley did not agree with Ryan's personnel decisions but followed his lead to allow Ryan no excuses. I think McD was recommended by Whaley and he will sink or swim with that decision. Imagining a rift between the FO and the new coach is just creating a story where one does not exist, especially as evidenced by the source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 For the record, Vic's report was that both Rex and Whaley were under the threat of playoffs or bust. Which turned out incorrect. Ten pages and counting... Whaley was able to sink his tendrils into Pegula and wriggle out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Ten pages and counting... All that proves is that LaCanfora achieved his purpose. On the one hand, posters are ready to bash him for creating false news. On the other hand, during slow news times, they use his posts for endlessly long threads (yea, feel free to point out that I am contributing as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Frankly, much of the consternation is a result of losing. Do you really blame Whaley for not being in sync with Ryan ? I can also twist this argument to say that Whaley did not agree with Ryan's personnel decisions but followed his lead to allow Ryan no excuses. I think McD was recommended by Whaley and he will sink or swim with that decision. Imagining a rift between the FO and the new coach is just creating a story where one does not exist, especially as evidenced by the source Except for the reports that say otherwise. You are allowed to "twist" the argument that Whaley did not agree with th moves he made but instead let Rex self-sabotage. But that's an argument made with zero evidence. It's plausible, but I wouldn't hang my hat on it. I blame the GM for being a horrible drafter. I blame him for being too gutless to draft QB's after sticking with EJ 2 years too long. I blame him for getting just lucky enough to keep his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 (edited) Except for the reports that say otherwise. You are allowed to "twist" the argument that Whaley did not agree with th moves he made but instead let Rex self-sabotage. But that's an argument made with zero evidence. It's plausible, but I wouldn't hang my hat on it. I blame the GM for being a horrible drafter. I blame him for being too gutless to draft QB's after sticking with EJ 2 years too long. I blame him for getting just lucky enough to keep his job. So you would believe only the reports that fit your narrative ? I do agree his record on drafts is not good to date but it takes time to judge drafts. I am not yet ready to write off the 2016 picks. Edited March 4, 2017 by Fan in Chicago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 So you would believe only the reports that fit your narrative ? I do agree his record on drafts is not good to date but it takes time to judge drafts. I am not yet ready to write off the 2016 picks. Don't you? There's a couple out there that McD was the Pegula's pick, again. We don't need to write off the 2016 picks when the 2013, 2014, and 2015 picks haven't worked. Besides, I thought 2016 was Rex's decisions that Whaley didn't agree with? If Shaq Lawson turns out to be a double digit sack guy for 12 years, you'd turn right around and praise Whaley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Good story, plausible narrative, the soap opera at OBD continues. I would imagine the coaching staff wants to get to work on installing something, anything, but until the Quarterback position has some definition all they can do is plan for contingencies. Whaley wants his guy whoever that is and one thing I think we can all agree on is that ain't Tyrod. If I am Pegs and the children can't play well together I side with Coach on personnel decisions, tell Whaley to work out the acquisition(s) or show him the door. You have to let the chef choose the groceries, because at the end of the day it's the coach who has to answer for the results. Answer me this: If this is plausible narrative, who's the leaker and better yet, what's his motivation for leaking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Frankly, much of the consternation is a result of losing. Do you really blame Whaley for not being in sync with Ryan ? I can also twist this argument to say that Whaley did not agree with Ryan's personnel decisions but followed his lead to allow Ryan no excuses. I think McD was recommended by Whaley and he will sink or swim with that decision. Imagining a rift between the FO and the new coach is just creating a story where one does not exist, especially as evidenced by the source I have met individuals who can tread water while working under several different regimes of incompetent and/or crazy bosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Don't you? There's a couple out there that McD was the Pegula's pick, again. We don't need to write off the 2016 picks when the 2013, 2014, and 2015 picks haven't worked. Besides, I thought 2016 was Rex's decisions that Whaley didn't agree with? If Shaq Lawson turns out to be a double digit sack guy for 12 years, you'd turn right around and praise Whaley? Did I not concede that I am not sold on his drafting record yet ? Whether you blame or praise him entirely depends on point of view or the argument you are trying to make. If the argument is that he made the picks without the HC's input or acceptance then Whaley is alone to take blame or credit for the picks. If you think he was trying to give the HC what he wants, he is partly responsible (he still is in charge of the talent evaluation). Last point I would like to make in this discussion is that 2018 December/2019 January is the right time to make a decision on Whaley. At that point he floats or plummets based on the Bills' record. I have met individuals who can tread water while working under several different regimes of incompetent and/or crazy bosses. I have no idea what you are implying here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 (edited) Russ Brandon still making personnel decisions!! http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bills-coaches-execs-remain-split-on-picking-up-tyrod-taylors-30m-option/ INDIANAPOLIS -- The Buffalo Bills are about a week away from another potential franchise-altering decision at quarterback, and it’s causing considerable consternation within the organization. League sources say a chasm remains between coaches and the front office whether to execute a $30M option on the promising-but-unproven quarterback. As I reported in December, Buffalo’s decision makers -- general manager Doug Whaley, senior VP of football administration Jim Overdorf and team president Russ Brandon -- decided they didn’t want to pay Taylor in 2017. They wanted Taylor out as starter late in last season (he was shut down for Week 17 once owner Terry Pegula fired coach Rex Ryan), and that has not changed. The front office still feels the current salary structure they negotiated themselves a year ago -- instead of a more standard year-to-year, pay-as-you-go format -- doesn’t make sense, thus their interest in veteran QB options like Tony Romo and Brian Hoyer. However, new coach Sean McDermott and Pegula have become close. McDermott and his staff are not convinced they will find an upgrade over Taylor and see no problem with paying Taylor $17M a year, the sources say. So, mere months into Buffalo’s latest regime change, they are at another crossroads of their own making (choosing this contract structure for Taylor’s extension was puzzling from the start). While I wouldn’t underestimate how highly the owner thinks of his new coach, picking up a $30M option is no small thing for even the richest men to consider. And the front-office core Pegula has relied upon for years remains firmly in the don’t-pick-up-the-option camp. In the meantime, the Bills continue to monitor the veteran QB market, meeting with agents to gauge price points of free-agent options. Some in that building remain intrigued by the prospect of trading for Romo, though the feasibility is under question and I’ve heard Buffalo is not Romo’s favored locale. They’ll have to decide whether Taylor’s option is the safest, most prudent route. One thing is for certain -- this coaching staff has no qualms about working with him and would prefer to do so. And Taylor hits the open market I have no doubt he would fare quite well. Fake news, I don't believe any of it. A rift between DW, TPegs, SM already? really! and over a less than good QB, no way! The Bills my have some problems but I have a hard time believing they are that dysfunctional this early into SM head coaching career. No way is there a power struggle like this going on already with SM . Edited March 4, 2017 by old school Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 (edited) Given that they haven't made a decision yet I suspect this story is true. Whaley has obviously wanted him gone for a long time, and McDermott probably realizes Taylor gives them the best option at QB this year. You'd think they'd have had a discussion about this prior to hiring McDermott as HC. Edited March 4, 2017 by jrober38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 (edited) Did I not concede that I am not sold on his drafting record yet ? Whether you blame or praise him entirely depends on point of view or the argument you are trying to make. If the argument is that he made the picks without the HC's input or acceptance then Whaley is alone to take blame or credit for the picks. If you think he was trying to give the HC what he wants(in an effort to wash his hands clean of blame), he is partly responsible (he still is in charge of the talent evaluation). Last point I would like to make in this discussion is that 2018 December/2019 January is the right time to make a decision on Whaley. At that point he floats or plummets based on the Bills' record. I edited your post because that's the argument proposed. He tried to give the HC what he wanted so if/when they sucked, he could say "That wasn't me!" I wouldn't call that guy partially responsible for anything besides falling ass backwards into another lucky break. Whaley will have to screw up for 9 years in order to be fired. What a job. Edited March 4, 2017 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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