FireChan Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 That is how you know you are drafting well? How about they are good enough that other teams want them? I cant agree with this at all If they are that good, you should want to keep them. Let's just say, the Bills have made a habit of taking players high, who play at a high level, and then realize they don't want to pay a player at that position that much. It's not as bad as drafting a bust, but its wasteful. Drafting a player who ends up being really good should never end poorly for the team who drafts him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 If they are that good, you should want to keep them. Let's just say, the Bills have made a habit of taking players high, who play at a high level, and then realize they don't want to pay a player at that position that much. It's not as bad as drafting a bust, but its wasteful. Drafting a player who ends up being really good should never end poorly for the team who drafts him. happens all the time in the NFL...why are you not grasping this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 I think they could still work on an extension, but are going to tell him to test the market since he wants top 5 money. If he gets it, good for him and good luck. If not, we're open for negotiation. Which is the right message in my view. Gotta be disciplined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 There's literally no supporting that take Cleveland has the most cap room in the NFL almost 100million. And they are looking for a CB. Gilmore is one of the top CB on the market according to some. So there is a a good chance they go after him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Cleveland has the most cap room in the NFL almost 100million. And they are looking for a CB. Gilmore is one of the top CB on the market according to some. So there is a a good chance they go after him. I was referring to the idea that he's an awful corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 happens all the time in the NFL...why are you not grasping this Teams suck all the time in the NFL too, John. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 (edited) Teams suck all the time in the NFL too, John. So basically you are holding the bills to a higher standard then other NFL teams then Turning around and slamming the bills like they are a red headed step child of the nfl You are certainly entitled to your opinion...but please try to recognize that other NFL professional teams do the exact same thing that you slam the the bills for....they are not singlular in this Edited March 8, 2017 by John from Hemet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 I was referring to the idea that he's an awful corner. Well he is. For that money ... A waste. Many would agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 So basically you are holding the bills to a higher standard then other NFL teams then Turning around and slamming the bills like they are a red headed step child of the nfl You are certainly entitled to your opinion...but please try to recognize that other NFL professional teams do the exact same thing that you slam the the bills for....they are not singlular in this The Bills make more mistakes and do dumber things constantly. How can you debate otherwise when it's 17 years and counting? Sure, other teams make a mistake now and then and you can point to it to say "See!" But the fact remains the Bills have been bad for almost 2 decades because of their own doing. And it's not because of Stephon Gilmore alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Well he is. For that money ... A waste. Many would agree. And they'd be wrong. His 2016 numbers (receptions allowed, TDs surrendered, passer rating against) are practically identical to Richard Sherman, though Gilmore had more solo tackles and INTs. And that's considered a "down" year for Gilmore by TSW standards. He's a top-10 corner and the numbers prove it, even if many don't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zonabb Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 You can get his level of play cheaper. Don't confuse his draft slot with his skillset, or the myth he's a lockdown or shutdown or whatever the hell they call themselves corner. Guy is not on any top 15 list of CBs after the 2016 and routinely was thrown at his entire time here. People want to point to his few good plays but a greta db, not a good one but a great one, which is how he wants to be paid, isn't as inconsistent as this guy. He's just not that good to pay that stupid money. Like Bird, let someone else overpay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 If we somehow lose both Taylor and Gilmore in the same off-season it may be the final straw for Whaley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 (edited) You can get his level of play cheaper. Don't confuse his draft slot with his skillset, or the myth he's a lockdown or shutdown or whatever the hell they call themselves corner. Guy is not on any top 15 list of CBs after the 2016 and routinely was thrown at his entire time here. People want to point to his few good plays but a greta db, not a good one but a great one, which is how he wants to be paid, isn't as inconsistent as this guy. He's just not that good to pay that stupid money. Like Bird, let someone else overpay. Sure is a top-10 corner... Look at the numbers: Gilmore stats for the 2016 season: 69 targets, 40 receptions, 627 yards, 2 TDs, 67.7 passer rating against, 42 solo tackles http://billswire.usa...hought-in-2016/ Article from Ike Taylor on his top 10 CBs in 2016: http://www.nfl.com/n...n-lands-at-no-1 Richard Sherman, Seattle Seahawks: allowed 44 catches on 85 targets for 624 yards, two TDs, four INTs, 64.0 passer rating against, 38 solo tackles Patrick Peterson, Arizona Cardinals: allowed 43 catches on 74 targets for 539 yards, two TDs, three INTs, 72.9 passer rating against, 45 solo tackles Chris Harris Jr., Denver Broncos: allowed 34 catches on 72 targets for 337 yards, three TDs, two INTs, 63.3 passer rating against, 57 solo tackles Marcus Peters, Kansas City Chiefs: allowed 51 catches on 89 targets for 652 yards, three TDs, six INTs, 63.5 passer rating against, 35 solo tackles Josh Norman, Washington Redskins: allowed 44 catches on 88 targets for 589 yards, four TDs, three INTs, 72.6 passer rating against, 52 solo tackles Janoris Jenkins, New York Giants: allowed 37 catches on 81 targets for 425 yards, two TDs, three INTs, 54.8 passer rating against, 44 solo tackles Adam Jones, Cincinnati Bengals: allowed 47 catches for 76 targets for 482 yards, two TDs, one INT, 83.3 passer rating against, 54 solo tackles Xavier Rhodes, Minnesota Vikings: allowed 33 catches on 79 targets for 384 yards, two TDs, five INTs, 39.2 passer rating against, 44 solo tackles Aqib Talib, Denver Broncos: allowed 36 catches on 73 targets for 372 yards, zero TDs, three INTs, 53.3 passer rating against, 32 solo tackles Jalen Ramsey, Jacksonville Jaguars: allowed 48 catches on 90 targets for 703 yards, two TDs, two INTs, 68.0 passer rating against, 55 solo tackles Summary: - Gilmore was targeted by opposing QBs fewer times than everyone on that list - He allowed more yards than everyone on the list save for Ramsey and Peters - Talib allowed zero TDs, and Gilmore tied with 6 others on the list for 2nd-fewest with 2 TDs allowed - Gilmore's passer rating allowed was 3.7 points behind Sherman, and better than than those allowed by Patrick Peterson, Josh Norman, Adam Jones, and Jalen Ramsey - Gilmore had fewer INTs than Peters, and tied with Rhodes for 2nd-most from that list Edited March 8, 2017 by thebandit27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 (edited) Sure is a top-10 corner... Look at the numbers: Gilmore stats for the 2016 season: 69 targets, 40 receptions, 627 yards, 2 TDs, 67.7 passer rating against, 42 solo tackles http://billswire.usa...hought-in-2016/ Article from Ike Taylor on his top 10 CBs in 2016: http://www.nfl.com/n...n-lands-at-no-1 Richard Sherman, Seattle Seahawks: allowed 44 catches on 85 targets for 624 yards, two TDs, four INTs, 64.0 passer rating against, 38 solo tackles Patrick Peterson, Arizona Cardinals: allowed 43 catches on 74 targets for 539 yards, two TDs, three INTs, 72.9 passer rating against, 45 solo tackles Chris Harris Jr., Denver Broncos: allowed 34 catches on 72 targets for 337 yards, three TDs, two INTs, 63.3 passer rating against, 57 solo tackles Marcus Peters, Kansas City Chiefs: allowed 51 catches on 89 targets for 652 yards, three TDs, six INTs, 63.5 passer rating against, 35 solo tackles Josh Norman, Washington Redskins: allowed 44 catches on 88 targets for 589 yards, four TDs, three INTs, 72.6 passer rating against, 52 solo tackles Janoris Jenkins, New York Giants: allowed 37 catches on 81 targets for 425 yards, two TDs, three INTs, 54.8 passer rating against, 44 solo tackles Adam Jones, Cincinnati Bengals: allowed 47 catches for 76 targets for 482 yards, two TDs, one INT, 83.3 passer rating against, 54 solo tackles Xavier Rhodes, Minnesota Vikings: allowed 33 catches on 79 targets for 384 yards, two TDs, five INTs, 39.2 passer rating against, 44 solo tackles Aqib Talib, Denver Broncos: allowed 36 catches on 73 targets for 372 yards, zero TDs, three INTs, 53.3 passer rating against, 32 solo tackles Jalen Ramsey, Jacksonville Jaguars: allowed 48 catches on 90 targets for 703 yards, two TDs, two INTs, 68.0 passer rating against, 55 solo tackles Summary: - Gilmore was targeted by opposing QBs fewer times than everyone on that list - He allowed more yards than everyone on the list save for Ramsey and Peters - Talib allowed zero TDs, and Gilmore tied with 6 others on the list for 2nd-fewest with 2 TDs allowed - Gilmore's passer rating allowed was 3.7 points behind Sherman, and better than than those allowed by Patrick Peterson, Josh Norman, Adam Jones, and Jalen Ramsey - Gilmore had fewer INTs than Peters, and tied with Rhodes for 2nd-most from that list Just to play devil's advocate, (Me? No way!) looking at these numbers, doesn't Gilly have the worst Catches Allowed Per Target, Yards Per Target and one of the worst TD's Allowed Per Target? Edited March 8, 2017 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Just to play devil's advocate, (Me? No way!) looking at these numbers, doesn't Gilly have the worst Catches Allowed Per Target, Yards Per Target and one of the worst TD's Allowed Per Target? Sure, that's more context to the discussion. You could also point out that he had the fewest targets per snap, which could tell you that opposing QBs choose not to target him. Lots of ways to look at it, but to say that his numbers aren't comparable to the other top corners would be patently incorrect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Sure, that's more context to the discussion. You could also point out that he had the fewest targets per snap, which could tell you that opposing QBs choose not to target him. Lots of ways to look at it, but to say that his numbers aren't comparable to the other top corners would be patently incorrect Agreed, should've paid that man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 If they are that good, you should want to keep them. Let's just say, the Bills have made a habit of taking players high, who play at a high level, and then realize they don't want to pay a player at that position that much. It's not as bad as drafting a bust, but its wasteful. Drafting a player who ends up being really good should never end poorly for the team who drafts him. The Patriots do this often as well, but are not criticized rather they are lauded for it. Every team does to some extent because that is how the league is set up. You just don't get any heat for it when you stumble on a top QB that plays his entire career for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 (edited) The Patriots do this often as well, but are not criticized rather they are lauded for it. Every team does to some extent because that is how the league is set up. You just don't get any heat for it when you stumble on a top QB that plays his entire career for you. Basically. That and they seem to always replace a guy easily, while the Bills let Levitre walk and take 3 years to find an NFL starting caliber guard. Our room for error is thin. Edited March 8, 2017 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted March 8, 2017 Author Share Posted March 8, 2017 Makes sense @josinaanderson My understanding is that CB Stephon Gilmore is using Janoris Jenkins' deal as a baseline to work from.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Owned by Ryan Fitzpatrick. Disgraceful. He gave up plays in that game, yes, but he was literally in position almost the entire night. They were just perfect throws to tall WRs who could win jump balls. There is really no defending against that. I suggest rewatching the game or at least clips from it if you're going to base you judgement on this one game (rather than the game against, say, AZ, which has a flat out better passing game than the Jets). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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