No Franchise Tag for Gilmore

[thebandit27]

 

From day one at the draft, Gilmore has never displayed any enthusiasm for being a Bill. I thought the guy was gonna start crying when he found out where he was going. He has talent but doesn't play with any kind of intensity on the field. He basically seems disconnected from the team as he gives up on plays. His tackling has always been sloppy. He injured his shoulder a while back because of sloppy tackling. If he didn't have one good game this year his stats would of been rather average for CB's. Which is exactly what he is.

 

That's simply his personality; it says nothing of the team. He's an extremely quiet guy.

 

Also, you are (like many others) completely wrong about his level of play. He didn't "have one good game" this year; he had 2 bad ones and 13 really, really good ones.

 

He is not average for a CB; his stats for the 2016 season are virtually identical to Richard Sherman's, and are very similar to other guys that are widely considered top 10 (and even top 5) corners. Despite this, folks still make blanket statements about his supposed "averageness" with absolutely no context to them.

 

I don't mean to pick on you specifically, but it's nigh exasperating to discover that a very large contingent of Bills' fans altogether ignore the data.

[jeffismagic]

Bills fans always run down players that want to be paid. Remember Jason Peters? Get him out of here screamed Bills fans.

[ThrowingFitz]

I would rather pay a guy that wants be here and puts in maximum effort than a player that is supposedly talented and gives up or gets injured due to technique. Dont forget, teams didn't have to pass due to the horrid run defense. On that note, I seem to remember Gilmore getting destroyed when defending the run. Are you telling me you would take Gilmore over Sherman? You can certainly cherry pick stats and make them comparable. Gilmore is not an elite CB. Plain and simple.

Edited March 1, 2017 by ThrowingFitz

[papazoid]

Bills fans always run down players that want to be paid. Remember Jason Peters? Get him out of here screamed Bills fans.

 

for every jason peters there are two jairus byrds

gilmore is just not worth franchise tag money

[jeffismagic]

 

for every jason peters there are two jairus byrds

gilmore is just not worth franchise tag money

 

I agree. Just saying that Bills fans pretending Gilmore was a bad CB are wrong.

[thebandit27]

I would rather pay a guy that wants be here and puts in maximum effort than a player that is supposedly talented and gives up or gets injured due to technique.

 

He's not "supposedly talented"; he's very good. In consecutive weeks, he basically shut down Allen Robinson, Amari Cooper, Antonio Brown, and Terrelle Pryor. Did he start the season in a form of preservation mode? Sure looked like it.

 

He had 2 bad games; that some folks want to turn it into more than 2 bad games is, IMO, way overblown.

 

Dont forget, teams didn't have to pass due to the horrid run defense. On that note, I seem to remember Gilmore getting destroyed when defending the run.

 

Oh stop. The team faced 511 pass attempts in 2016, so it's not as though teams didn't have a chance to attack him if they wanted to...Gilmore just so happens to have faced an NFL-low number of targets per coverage snap in 2016. There's that whole idea of context again--it matters.

 

As to his run defense, how about more than just "I seem to remember him getting destroyed"? Can you give any type of data with relevant context to support that opinion? I've already tossed out solo tackles for the "top 10" corners as my defense.

 

Are you telling me you would take Gilmore over Sherman? You can certainly cherry pick stats and make them comparable. Gilmore is not an elite CB. Plain and simple.

 

Nothing is cherry picked; I posted literally every stat that can be attributed to corners in this very thread. Cherry picked?

 

 

Also, I never said I'd take him over Sherman. I said that their performances during 2016 were almost identical.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

I'd rather that we had tagged him and then worked out a bridge deal. But what's done is done. Now that he's going to hit the open market, someone is going to massively overpay for him. This year is supposed to be a very deep CB draft, so it's not a bad year to draft for replacement.

 

If they use the $14 M to, say, bring back Zach Brown and pick up a veteran safety or two (possibly Byrd if he gets cut) I feel considerably better at picking BPA at 10.

[thebandit27]

I'd rather that we had tagged him and then worked out a bridge deal. But what's done is done. Now that he's going to hit the open market, someone is going to massively overpay for him. This year is supposed to be a very deep CB draft, so it's not a bad year to draft for replacement.

 

If they use the $14 M to, say, bring back Zach Brown and pick up a veteran safety or two (possibly Byrd if he gets cut) I feel considerably better at picking BPA at 10.

 

I'm actually fine with that given how deep a draft it is at corner, but I think we need to be prepared for a rookie to be a significant drop off from what we had last year.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

 

I'm actually fine with that given how deep a draft it is at corner, but I think we need to be prepared for a rookie to be a significant drop off from what we had last year.

I'll have to be. I think that now we better splurge at safety because they are going to need help. Hopefully Darby is better when he's not on an island and goes back to 2015 form.

[jeffismagic]

You don't over pay corners when you are running zone defense.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

You don't over pay corners when you are running zone defense.

Like Carolina did last year.

 

Again, theres a good chance McDermott and Whaley looked three years down the road and said "we're not keeping him that long" and letting him walk is the right move. It was for Byrd. But I think we miss him next year.

[thebandit27]

You don't over pay corners when you are running zone defense.

 

Quick--what defense does Seattle run 90% of the time?

[billieve420]

You don't over pay corners when you are running zone defense.

 

I agree I think we can go cheaper at this position. Safety is where our focus should be at as it is integral to this defense. If the team decides to throw money at the CB position I rather sign FA CB from the Rams Trumaine Johnson.

[eball]

Bills fans always run down players that want to be paid. Remember Jason Peters? Get him out of here screamed Bills fans.

 

I don't know why I'm even bothering to respond, but the anger towards Peters wasn't because he didn't deserve to be paid like a top LT, but because fans felt he went about getting there the wrong way. I'm not saying either side is incorrect -- players need to strike while the iron is hot, and fans can hope for players to be responsible and accountable when a team has treated them fairly up until that point.

[CommonCents]

 

I agree I think we can go cheaper at this position. Safety is where our focus should be at as it is integral to this defense. If the team decides to throw money at the CB position I rather sign FA CB from the Rams Trumaine Johnson.

He got tagged again this year.

[thebandit27]

 

I don't know why I'm even bothering to respond, but the anger towards Peters wasn't because he didn't deserve to be paid like a top LT, but because fans felt he went about getting there the wrong way. I'm not saying either side is incorrect -- players need to strike while the iron is hot, and fans can hope for players to be responsible and accountable when a team has treated them fairly up until that point.

 

Agreed--I didn't like that he went straight for the holdout a mere year-and-a-half after signing a 5-year contract that the team opted to give him WAY ahead of when he was due to come up for UFA.

 

I always felt that he deserved to get paid.

[dave mcbride]

 

That's simply his personality; it says nothing of the team. He's an extremely quiet guy.

 

Also, you are (like many others) completely wrong about his level of play. He didn't "have one good game" this year; he had 2 bad ones and 13 really, really good ones.

 

He is not average for a CB; his stats for the 2016 season are virtually identical to Richard Sherman's, and are very similar to other guys that are widely considered top 10 (and even top 5) corners. Despite this, folks still make blanket statements about his supposed "averageness" with absolutely no context to them.

 

I don't mean to pick on you specifically, but it's nigh exasperating to discover that a very large contingent of Bills' fans altogether ignore the data.

+1. As a friend of mine said in an entirely different context, "There is no such thing as a body language expert." I suspect that many here are unaware of this basic fact based on things I've read over the years ..

[jeffismagic]

It's not that zone coverage means you don't need good corners. It's just easier to protect them than man.

 

I would keep Gilmore if we were a playoff team.

[dave mcbride]

 

I don't know why I'm even bothering to respond, but the anger towards Peters wasn't because he didn't deserve to be paid like a top LT, but because fans felt he went about getting there the wrong way. I'm not saying either side is incorrect -- players need to strike while the iron is hot, and fans can hope for players to be responsible and accountable when a team has treated them fairly up until that point.

While the anger was understandable in the sense that this is how fans think, 20/20 hindsight has proven that that fans were 100 percent wrong about Peters. He received his 10th (well-deserved) pro bowl selection again this year. The Bills may not have liked how he operated, but they paid him as an RT and then once the contract was done shifted him over to LT - a higher paying position. He felt he could and should make a lot more money, and he was right - the Eagles paid him a fortune, and it was money that was very well spent. He's still good, and he's arguably a HOF player. I never get pissed at players in contract disputes, partly because the fans always jump on the player rather than the other party (the team). It's sad but very predictable. If it had been MLB, he might still be on the Bills given the arbitration process.

[eball]

While the anger was understandable in the sense that this is how fans think, 20/20 hindsight has proven that that fans were 100 percent wrong about Peters. He received his 10th (well-deserved) pro bowl selection again this year. The Bills may not have liked how he operated, but they paid him as an RT and then once the contract was done shifted him over to LT - a higher paying position. He felt he could and should make a lot more money, and he was right - the Eagles paid him a fortune, and it was money that was very well spent. He's still good, and he's arguably a HOF player. I never get pissed at players in contract disputes, partly because the fans always jump on the player rather than the other party (the team). It's sad but very predictable. If it had been MLB, he might still be on the Bills given the arbitration process.

 

I don't think we disagree, but Peters reported out of shape and then got hurt (if I recall), which only fueled the fans' fire and made him look bad. I do believe if he had done the right thing by reporting as an in-shape, motivated player Buffalo would have paid him accordingly. But, like you, I never begrudge a player for trying to get paid.