Cardale Jones

[Kirby Jackson]

There are always issues of mechanics when Cardale is brought up. You are familiar with him as a college player. Is he in general an accurate passer? Can he make anticipatory throws? I realize that he didn't get much playing time in college but did he exhibit those traits in college?

I think that he can make the anticipatory throws but he didn't have to much in college. Devin Smith was open deep and Michael Thomas was just a beast. He has the arm strength that even when he's a little late it gets there a little earlier than if most other QBs released it at the same time. His accuracy comes and goes. He can make some wow throws but it's not terribly consistent. That needs to improve. He will continue to learn and develop on the mental side. Most guys do that. Not all guys can overcome their inconsistency though. That's going to be his biggest obstacle IMO.

 

As a runner, he's a good runner but doesn't make great decisions. As an example he doesn't read the edge really well on the zone read. He often makes the wrong decision. When he gets going though he runs downhill and is a load to bring down. He's better when the play breaks down then on designed runs.

 

Hope that this helps

[JohnC]

I think that he can make the anticipatory throws but he didn't have to much in college. Devin Smith was open deep and Michael Thomas was just a beast. He has the arm strength that even when he's a little late it gets there a little earlier than if most other QBs released it at the same time. His accuracy comes and goes. He can make some wow throws but it's not terribly consistent. That needs to improve. He will continue to learn and develop on the mental side. Most guys do that. Not all guys can overcome their inconsistency though. That's going to be his biggest obstacle IMO.

 

As a runner, he's a good runner but doesn't make great decisions. As an example he doesn't read the edge really well on the zone read. He often makes the wrong decision. When he gets going though he runs downhill and is a load to bring down. He's better when the play breaks down then on designed runs.

 

Hope that this helps

That was a terrific post and analysis.

 

What concerns me is usually (almost always) if a qb isn't accurate in college it is unlikely that he will be accurate enough for the pros where the game is much quicker and the passing windows are really tight. That is not to say that I disagree with his selection in the fourth round because it was worth the investment.

 

There are plenty of qbs that have enticing tools. JP Losman is a good example of an appealing prospect. Another example of a qb with classic traits is Rob Johnson. But something in each player was missing regardless how much effort they put into preparation. That trait was a feel for the game that isn't very measurable but it is visible when watching the players play.

 

My problem with a player such as Cardale is that there are going to be some wow plays that will entice you to continue on with him. But the problem arises that with an inconsistent qb those stunning moments will be sabotaged by the predictable lapses along the way. At that position those are killer traits. As with a surgeon consistency is an essential quality. That is at the heart of my problem with Cardale.

[Kirby Jackson]

That was a terrific post and analysis.

 

What concerns me is usually (almost always) if a qb isn't accurate in college it is unlikely that he will be accurate enough for the pros where the game is much quicker and the passing windows are really tight. That is not to say that I disagree with his selection in the fourth round because it was worth the investment.

 

There are plenty of qbs that have enticing tools. JP Losman is a good example of an appealing prospect. Another example of a qb with classic traits is Rob Johnson. But something in each player was missing regardless how much effort they put into preparation. That trait was a feel for the game that isn't very measurable but it is visible when watching the players play.

 

My problem with a player such as Cardale is that there are going to be some wow plays that will entice you to continue on with him. But the problem arises that with an inconsistent qb those stunning moments will be sabotaged by the predictable lapses along the way. At that position those are killer traits. As with a surgeon consistency is an essential quality. That is at the heart of my problem with Cardale.

The one thing that gives me hope vs. Johnson and Losman is that I think Cardale has a good feel for the game. He has good presence in the pocket and he climbs the pocket. He doesn't always do it while going through progressions but hopefully that will come. I'm not sure, to your point, that the accuracy will ever come consistently. That's why he's a long shot. I think that he does have a pretty good feel for the game though. His competitive attitude comes out. He has a little Favre in that sense (and no im not calling him Favre). If he gets hit though he gets up smiling and will joke with the defender. He is happy-go-lucky guy and I think that leads some people to think that he doesn't take football seriously enough. I don't think that is the case. I think that he's a guy that more appreciates where he is and the opportunities that others take for granted. Cardale seems to be a delightful human being (Yolo can speak to that better than me) but people genuinely enjoy being around him. Lastly, he has that presence that great QBs have. I don't know if he has that means streak but people gravitate towards him.

 

I hope that he succeeds. He has the talent to be great but there are a lot of hurdles between here and greatness. This year will be a big growth year for him IMO. We will know a lot more about his future (or lack there of) a year from now.

[JohnC]

The one thing that gives me hope vs. Johnson and Losman is that I think Cardale has a good feel for the game. He has good presence in the pocket and he climbs the pocket. He doesn't always do it while going through progressions but hopefully that will come. I'm not sure, to your point, that the accuracy will ever come consistently. That's why he's a long shot. I think that he does have a pretty good feel for the game though. His competitive attitude comes out. He has a little Favre in that sense (and no im not calling him Favre). If he gets hit though he gets up smiling and will joke with the defender. He is happy-go-lucky guy and I think that leads some people to think that he doesn't take football seriously enough. I don't think that is the case. I think that he's a guy that more appreciates where he is and the opportunities that others take for granted. Cardale seems to be a delightful human being (Yolo can speak to that better than me) but people genuinely enjoy being around him. Lastly, he has that presence that great QBs have. I don't know if he has that means streak but people gravitate towards him.

 

I hope that he succeeds. He has the talent to be great but there are a lot of hurdles between here and greatness. This year will be a big growth year for him IMO. We will know a lot more about his future (or lack there of) a year from now.

From what I have read from a variety of sources the Bills were eyeing Prescott last year. As usual they waited too long and instead took a known immature lineman from Ohio State with their third round selection, the spot they would have needed to take Prescott. It's infuriating! You already know my position on this qb class and what my position is with respect to the draft. I'm hoping for the best but preparing for disappointment.

 

If Whaley doesn't select a qb with a high draft pick this year that might be a clue that he feels that Cardale is a viable option not too far down the line. As with the EJ example, Whaley, like most GMs, have a tendency to be too invested in the players they selected. It is understandable but it can also be a fault. The mistaken selection of EJ resulted in this organization bypassing better prospects in the following years. Mistakes compounded by more mistakes.

Edited February 8, 2017 by JohnC

[yungmack]

Clipboard...Another Doug Whaley reach...

Around here, there is a certain school of thought that you should draft a QB every year so to those who think that way, Whaley did the right thing.

From what I have read from a variety of sources the Bills were eyeing Prescott last year. As usual they waited too long and instead took a known immature lineman from Ohio State with their third round selection, the spot they would have needed to take Prescott. It's infuriating! You already know my position on this qb class and what my position is with respect to the draft. I'm hoping for the best but preparing for disappointment.

 

If Whaley doesn't select a qb with a high draft pick this year that might be a clue that he feels that Cardale is a viable option not too far down the line. As with the EJ example, Whaley, like most GMs, have a tendency to be too invested in the players they selected. It is understandable but it can also be a fault. The mistaken selection of EJ resulted in this organization bypassing better prospects in the following years. Mistakes compounded by more mistakes.

Or it might mean he doesn't think there's a QB in the draft worth a high pick.

[Mike in Horseheads]

I love the Whaley hate. Cardale was a reach with a low draft pick. He may very well still be around as 3rd string, behind whoever is #1 and #2. Maybe he should have got Dak, and guess what he would have been 3rd string last year unless there were injuries.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Mike in Horseheads

[GunnerBill]

I love the Whaley hate. Cardale was a reach with a low draft pick. He may very well still be around as 3rd string, behind whoever is #1 and #2. Maybe he should have got Dak, and guess what he would have been 3rd string last year unless there were injuries.

Yep. If Dak had been drafted here no way he starts. Maybe could have beaten EJ out for the #2.

[JohnC]

I love the Whaley hate. Cardale was a reach with a low draft pick. He may very well still be around as 3rd string, behind whoever is #1 and #2. Maybe he should have got Dak, and guess what he would have been 3rd string last year unless there were injuries.

Whaley was very interested in Prescott last year. As someone else stated (Kirby or Corner??) he met with Dak on at least three occasions prior to the draft. There was a lot of speculation that he was going to take him in the fourth round. Waiting too long is a persistent problem with this franchise.

 

With respect to the highlighted area that Dak would have been a third string qb except for the injuries that isn't the point. The point is that he turned out to be a very good qb even in his rookie year. The point is that the Cowboys hit on a qb that was available to us. A team with a qb need again bypassed a good qb prospect and gave the opportunity to another team. They benefited and we again lost out.

 

You are over-exaggerating with your hate Whaley comment. That is a major mis-characterization. Just because people question a particular draft decision that doesn't rise to the level of hating him as a GM. In general I have been very supportive of him and the job he has done. On the other hand I have been very critical of him for not adequately addressing the qb position. And that isn't an unfair or unreasonable position for anyone to take.

Edited February 9, 2017 by JohnC

[#34fan]

From what I have read from a variety of sources the Bills were eyeing Prescott last year. As usual they waited too long and instead took a known immature lineman from Ohio State with their third round selection, the spot they would have needed to take Prescott. It's infuriating! You already know my position on this qb class and what my position is with respect to the draft. I'm hoping for the best but preparing for disappointment.

 

If Whaley doesn't select a qb with a high draft pick this year that might be a clue that he feels that Cardale is a viable option not too far down the line. As with the EJ example, Whaley, like most GMs, have a tendency to be too invested in the players they selected. It is understandable but it can also be a fault. The mistaken selection of EJ resulted in this organization bypassing better prospects in the following years. Mistakes compounded by more mistakes.

 

The exact same BS "He's hot ready" talk would have undoubtedly ensued... Taylor would have been named the starter in TC, and Dak would have faded to obscurity..

[Mike in Horseheads]

 

 

 

Whaley was very interested in Prescott last year. As someone else stated (Kirby or Corner??) he met with Dak on at least three occasions prior to the draft. There was a lot of speculation that he was going to take him in the fourth round. Waiting too long is a persistent problem with this franchise.

 

With respect to the highlighted area that Dak would have been a third string qb except for the injuries that isn't the point. The point is that he turned out to be a very good qb even in his rookie year. The point is that the Cowboys hit on a qb that was available to us. A team with a qb need again bypassed a good qb prospect and gave the opportunity to another team. They benefited and we again lost out.

 

You are over-exaggerating with your hate Whaley comment. That is a major mis-characterization. Just because people question a particular draft decision that doesn't rise to the level of hating him as a GM. In general I have been very supportive of him and the job he has done. On the other hand I have been very critical of him for not adequately addressing the qb position. And that isn't an unfair or unreasonable position for anyone to take.

If you are not on the Whaley must go bandwagon I apologize. I stand by my post.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Mike in Horseheads

[Beef Jerky]

What round did he get drafted? Yea so shut up.

[Cripple Creek]

Four years, $2.7 million. You wouldn't save any money.

 

 

You misunderstand me. Because (apparently) Jones needs at least a couple more years to (potentially) develop the team must (if they keep Taylor) find a "viable" backup. If Taylor were cut loose then they would have to find 2 higher paid options than Jones. Him, being stuck as the #3, is costing the team money.

[Marty McFly]

You misunderstand me. Because (apparently) Jones needs at least a couple more years to (potentially) develop the team must (if they keep Taylor) find a "viable" backup. If Taylor were cut loose then they would have to find 2 higher paid options than Jones. Him, being stuck as the #3, is costing the team money.

 

Hes a lottery ticket that could develop into a star there is no way the Bills let him go unless via trade.

 

These are the scenarios

1. He develops into the future starting QB for the Bills

2. We find another future starting QB for the Bills and pawn off Cardale for a draft pick/s

3. He never gets where he needs to be and bounces around the league as as back up.

 

So 2 out of 3 of those scenarios have the Bills winning for not a lot of an investment considering its he was acquired with a 4th round compensation pick.

[Beef Jerky]

You misunderstand me. Because (apparently) Jones needs at least a couple more years to (potentially) develop the team must (if they keep Taylor) find a "viable" backup. If Taylor were cut loose then they would have to find 2 higher paid options than Jones. Him, being stuck as the #3, is costing the team money.

Can't believe people are complaining about late round QBs costing money hahahaha

[JohnC]

 

The exact same BS "He's hot ready" talk would have undoubtedly ensued... Taylor would have been named the starter in TC, and Dak would have faded to obscurity..

Whether he is ready or not having a talented player on the roster is better than not having that player on the roster. Whether he starts immediately or not it would become evident to the coaches that he is the better player, sooner rather than later.

 

I don't give a dam whether a qb prospect plays right away. My priority is to get a more well rounded qb on the team and let his talent take him wherever it will be. Russell Wilson was a third round pick. In training camp it became crystal clear that he was the best qb on the roster. The rest is history.

 

If the coaches believe that a rookie qb needs more time then so be it. If the coaches believe that the rookie qb should start then so be it. Romo started ahead of Prescott. When he got hurt and Prescott got an opportunity to play there was no looking back. The bottom line is that talent will speak for itself when given the opportunity.

 

The first step is to get that type of player on the roster and stop scrounging around to fill the position.

[HT02]

Serious question: what do you do with Cardale?

 

All you ever hear about him is that he's not ready, which he proved hugely in the Jets game. You also read there's no time during the regular season to develop him because other QB's need the rep's. So when does he get ready?

 

If you bring back Tyrod, he plays and he's probably here a few more years. Where's the window for Cardale? If he's "not ready," how do you make him the 2nd QB even with EJ gone?

 

If you don't bring back Tyrod, someone else plays because Cardale's not ready. You pick up a serviceable vet and probably forget about the playoffs.

 

If you draft Watson at #10 (which appeals to me a lot), there's a better chance of him playing early -- like in 2017 -- than Cardale.

 

So what's the point of carrying Cardale? What are you supposed to do with him and when?

I wasn't a fan of his when the Bills drafted him. He lost his starting job in college, seems very inaccurate and now reports coming out that he never worked very hard last season. See what he can do or has learned in training camp if no improvement put him on the practice squad, if he gets claimed let him go.

[JohnC]

 

If you are not on the Whaley must go bandwagon I apologize. I stand by my post

There's no need to apologize.

 

I have never been on the Whaley must go bandwagon. Far from it. In general, I would say he has done a good job. And I have often stated it. That is not to say that I haven'y been critical of him regarding the qb issue.

[HT02]

 

Hes a lottery ticket that could develop into a star there is no way the Bills let him go unless via trade.

 

These are the scenarios

1. He develops into the future starting QB for the Bills

2. We find another future starting QB for the Bills and pawn off Cardale for a draft pick/s

3. He never gets where he needs to be and bounces around the league as as back up.

 

So 2 out of 3 of those scenarios have the Bills winning for not a lot of an investment considering its he was acquired with a 4th round compensation pick.

He's a marginal 4th round selection the Bills will not be able to trade him for any draft picks

[Marty McFly]

He's a marginal 4th round selection the Bills will not be able to trade him for any draft picks

 

If he flashes at the right time and shows progression we can def unload him to someone

[QuoteTheRaven83]

The Bills coaching staff was happy with his development as the year went along. There was talk of it late in the year. He was a LONG way from playing when he came. He's closer now.

 

This means nothing to the new coaching staff.