Meathead Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 so in some other threads weve got the ball rolling on the most fubared topic of our time: race issues its not surprising that its the most fubared topic of our time. you could easily make the case that its been the most fubared topic of all of american history. in fact, it wouldnt be unreasonable at all to say its the most fubared topic in ALL of human existence so far its easy to see the widespread damage caused by this horrible historically perennial blunder. the worlds largest mass slaughters have usually included racial genocide as their centerpiece. americas legacy of physical and institutional slavery is the worlds most recent and dramatic example overt and intentional racism that sanctioned the brutal oppression of many millions of innocent people in an allegedly developed country. the election of an unqualified nationalistic demagogue like donald trump owes arguably its tragic unfolding to our latest devolutionary habit of choosing a race to universally and unfairly blame for all our race problems so i say we fix it right here its actually not all that hard. all we have to do is unravel the entire tangled web of totally f***ed up thinking that always poisons the thoughts of millions when highly emotional topics are brought up hey no problem! warning: some of these posts will be very long and difficult to digest. there is no way to get around that. there is so much emotion and superstition and bias built up over many generations there simply wont be many one sentence solutions to unravel all of that you should also expect to be offended - especially right now in american history. our race issue process is arguably as broken right now as it was when whitey was legally stringing up negros for talking back. our cultural standards have changed so that it is somewhat less overtly violent, but the social oppression is no less dramatic and no less real and no less of an anchor dragging us to the depths of dark human dysfunction. all weve really done is change the color of our primary target whether you recognize it or not, YOU are likely emotionally invested in that darkness and will resist the change that is necessary. that is all on you. YOU have to want to change YOU if you really want to fix this once and for all fortunately we have a golden example staring us right in the face: the fact that we elected trump should be the shocker that wakes you up to the reality that we MUST do something different now. otherwise we are going to just keep resurrecting the specter of racism over and over again in different camouflaged forms. just when we think we might have finally vanquished it, it will rise again in a new form like some f***ed up phoenix from the ashes to plague us like its obviously done in this last election cycle to be successful you will have to question the very fundamental nature of your race issue viewpoints and assumptions. most likely they are f***ed to the core. all we have to do is look at how brutally wrong our popular assumptions have consistently been on this topic to recognize we keep invented new ways screw this up. like we just did in november enter of your own free will. the average american DESPERATELY needs to commit to taking this step. its highly likely you are one of them. but if you dont like it and want to decline, theres the door lets get started Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Race doesn't matter to me. I'm done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) lets get started ive not been feeling well lately so progress might be slow for a while. and the editor here is just so brutally bad that im not looking forward to fighting it so i might be composing things in notepads ugly editor and moving it here. then of course is this ridiculous auto concatenate of sequential posts by the same person, which is going to make these some awfully difficult to parse long ass posts that may not enable an easy train of thought. i wish we could turn that dumb thing off but it is what it is i guess we will start with some easy ones before we get into some of the more meaty topics. and since im leading the discussion they will all be 'meaty' topics There was a time when the civil right struggle, as well as the women's rights movement, were merited and necessary. During that time blacks were discriminated against, because of the color of their skin, by major institutions, most noteworthy the Federal government. The time is long since passed. Civil Rights activists have out lived their usefulness, as there is no more institutional racism. There are, of course, still individual racists, as there always will be. Poor outcomes for blacks and other minority groups is in no way related to racism at this point in our history. Poor outcomes are related to culture and choices, which lead to poverty. 75% of black children are born out of wedlock, and child birth out of wedlock is the single greatest predictor of poverty. The second greatest predictor of poverty is not graduating from high school. As of 2013 the dropout rate amongst black males was 41%. The third best predictor of poverty in unemployment. The rate of black unemployment is almost twice the national unemployment rate. although i generally agree, you have used too broad a brush first off, we will always have racism so its unreasonable to say we can or will wipe it out. if we spent every single dollar of GDP on eradicating racism, the very best we could hope for is to get it down to 20% of the population (my estimate). obviously we cant do that, so we should have a reasonable target. i believe 30% is a very difficult but reasonable final goal, and that extra 1 out of 10 ppl would make a significant difference so it is also a worthwhile goal to say that things like civil rights, institutional racism, and social racism are no longer current issues is inaccurate. what would be accurate to say is that we are not facing the same problems in 2017 that we were in 1970. and yet, our primary view of american racism is that it is exactly the same variety as what it was in 1970. this is the huge crux of the problem and is preventing us from properly addressing the devastating race issues that face us right now so yes, blacks still suffer from some levels of institutional racism. blacks still labor under burdens placed there by brutal past oppression and the cascading lingering legacy of problems and disadvantages that spawned. but to say that is our PRIMARY problem facing blackness and race issues in general is absurd for most of my life whiteness was primarily to blame for dysfunctional race issues. thats bc whitey had a long monopoly on defining race issues standards. and they wielded that baton with brutal efficacy eventually, as it always does, the universe corrected itself. in our time, it did that by bringing us MLK, whose magic was shining the spotlight on what was obviously deeply unrighteous thoughts and behavior on the part of the dominant whites. he brilliantly borrowed from gandhi's book on passive resistance to use whiteys own behavior to openly and rightfully shame them into the realization that all men are created equal, not just the melanin challenged ones this brought about a massive and well deserved guilt response in whiteness, but that cycle has lasted way too long. whiteness realized it had fubared race issue standards and backed away from that, creating an imbalanced vacuum. so in the last thirty or so years the control of that gavel has shifted from whites to blacks. and blacks have done what humans ALWAYS do when they get too much control over other humans: they take it too far and start to rig the system against their 'opponents'. blacks have defined racism to ONLY mean whites making non-complimentary statements about blacks, even if they are accurate statements. and a large segment of whites have joined them to flog whiteness as 'default racist' and proceeded to blame them for every race problem in america this has spawned an enormous race grievance industry, where douchebags like the gangsta rappers and al sharpton work to protect destructive and anti-social standards just bc they are perceived as 'black'. cultural elements in blackness that would be defined as destructive in any other culture are suddenly sacred ground. even valid criticisms are converted to 'automatic racism' and whomever has the nerve to utter them are immediately mobbed up upon and subject to total social annihilation. we saw that dynamic start to take shape right here in this forum what we desperately need is a race issue reset. we need to recognize that the black/white relationship is the single most important relationship in america right now bc it is having by far the most impact on our collective relationships and thought processes. we have to respect and cherish that relationship and work to get it back to a healthy and proper 50/50 dynamic where both sides are free to both cheer and critique what the other 'side' does and believes it aint gonna be easy. theres a LOT of encrusted tempered ѕhit built up on this topic. first we have to break the hard shell of that encrusted ѕhit, then we have to set in place some new standards to prevent it from recalcifying again fortunately, i think a trump presidency, in fact just him WINNING, will cleave a bunch of big cracks in that shell of ѕhit. we couldnt possibly believe that this racist could possibly win, certainly not bc of the mass of automatically racist 'deplorables' that supported him. its those two assumptions right there that were our blindness, and not for the reasons most americans currently believe. we could have done it the MUCH easier way and united after electing our first half-black president and fully-black family. but we didnt, we decided to make a new war out of it. and now we have to take the much more painful route. but at least we have a fresh and immensely painful lesson staring us in the face, which should provide some impetus its a super tall order. fortunately ive been working on this a loooong time, so ive got some pretty good ideas where we can start Edited January 28, 2017 by Meathead 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Meathead Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) this is problem of culture and choices. Not racism. so in reality, it is both. but every day that we get further away from the 1960's style legacy of brutal white racism and oppression we get further away from those influences and closer to the different and more subtle influences and bias that face us RIGHT NOW if we were to lay a zero-summed blame on it between whiteness and blackness starting in 1970 i would roughly estimate it to be thus: SOURCE OF AMERICAN RACIAL DISHARMONY by race 1970 ------ 85% whiteness 15% blackness 1990 ------ 50% whiteness 50% blackness 2016 ------ 90% blackness + enabling whites/everybody else 10% whiteness we allowed blackness to get too much control over the definition of what racism is. and of course fresh off that brutal and humiliating oppression, and with almost no interest from or permission allowed to whites to participate in that definition, blacks turned it into meaning any time whites are not complimentary about blacks - simply bc THEY COULD. if we leave it to our most divisive, vengeful, and selfish elements of humanity to define the rules for all of us, take a wild guess what is going to happen? this has created a culture at large where: - blacks dont have to be responsible for their own racism bc apparently they cant even be racist (!) - blacks, whites, and everybody else must protect ALL elements of blackness, even the negative ones, as if they were somehow sacred - blacks have to have permanent 'special rules' applied to them and ONLY them - even as we feebly claim to not treat them differently for the color of their skin! - anyone who challenges this new world order is painted as virulently racist and subject to instant and permanent exclusion from our social consciousness, thus eliminating all dissent and removing that voice completely from the conversation (and when has THAT ever caused problems?) Edited January 28, 2017 by Meathead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) I ask people this question and usually don't get an answer or an answer that makes sense. What civil rights changes do people of color want and what changes should the federal government make to achieve these changes? so we are finally ready to start dipping our toe into answering this question what blacks/minorities want falls into two categories: reasonable righteousness related demands, and selfish exploitative destructive demands for the reasonable demands, thats the easy one bc most of them are already in place. studies and statistics show us that we have fixed the overwhelming majority of the institutional racism problems, most easily recognized in former disparities in legal and medical outcomes by race. those two simply dont exist any longer at significant levels, at least when the factor of real racism, differences in health coverage, or unwillingness of blacks to go to the doctor is removed. this is a tremendous accomplishment for those functions and we should all be proud. we need to keep an eye on them so they dont backtrack, but we have done a nice job getting equal outcomes for legal and medical situations in a pretty expeditious manner we have a little more work to do on equal employment and housing opportunity, but again we are dramatically further along with those than we ever have been. opportunities to blacks is almost as open as they are to whites, in some ways more so. disparities in education and income is still a problem, but a lot of that is due to poor cultural standards in blackness itself regarding the proper way to behave in what they see as a 'racist white world'. to a lot of blacks, whiteness just equals default badness. and of course, if your definition of racism is any time anyone white criticizes me then youre going to see racism EVERYWHERE and you will act accordingly. but if you can somehow strip that biased and dysfunctional view from your life filter, you will find a dramatically improved opportunity set for all blacks is out there ready to be taken advantage of so what is the primary motivator of this set of unreasonable and hostile demands of the alleged 'black leaders'? it really boils down to nothing more than simple control blacks have had precious little control throughout american history, so its little surprise they would have a great hunger for it. as whiteness has backed off and left it up to blacks to define what proper attitudes are for everyone regarding race, blacks have succumbed to the temptation to build all the rules in their favor. and with little effective push back from whites, they have succeeded. now their efforts are to mostly centered around trying to push that envelope further and further, to expand the definition of negative racial behavior as far away from themselves as they can, and instead to push as much of that on whiteness as possible this gave them the illusion of control. and as long as whiteness toed the line, everything was hunky dory the main problem there is that whiteness still dwarfs our blackness 2010 Population by Race (Roughly) 62% 191M white 13% 40M black 16% 49M hispanic/latino 09% 28M everybody else i would estimate that the percentage of the white population that would still qualify as moderately or severely 'racist' is about 35%. that means that 67M white americans still hold negative bias against blacks - more than the entire black population! further, i would guesstimate that back in 1970 we had about 80% of the white population was racist, meaning we have had roughly 77M white people abandon their formerly racist past, accept blacks as equals, and more or less accept them fully into the formerly white dominated society thus it is painfully easy to see it was foolish for blacks to think they could strong arm whiteness into accepting an agenda that was based primarily on the assumption that whiteness is STILL the only target for all race related problems in america. even with the help of enabling whites, there was still a ѕhitload of white people that were rightfully sick and tired of being called racist when they knew all the pain and hard work it took them to admit to themselves that they were and to bring about that change in themselves so we sent them seething to the polls this past cycle. and of course they latched onto the one guy willing to buck this ridiculous wave of political correctness and speak some uncomfortable truths about problems along the borders, problems in our inner cities, and the unwillingness of many whites to continue to cede control over the definition of their own level of racism and who is the main instigator of this insatiable hunger for control? none other of course than the separatist organization known as Black Lives Matter exactly how much control have you given up when an organization can redefine words/terms like 'thug', 'gangster', and even 'all lives matter' to have default meanings thoroughly contrary to what they have always been used for and have completely valid intuitive meanings of their own? and more importantly, in a way that makes it IMPOSSIBLE for them to be used in a negative manner when accurately describing negative black behaviors? the leadership vacuum is enormous in our blackness right now. by far the best black leader weve had lately has been obama himself - and hes only really half black. further, he appears to be very well intentioned but also started out with a pretty hefty bias of his own, being taught by an openly racist preacher in rev jeremiah wright, as we can see by the numerous race related errors in perspective he started out with. for example, his pronouncement that his white grandmother was a 'typical white person' afraid of unfamiliar blacks - ignoring the reality that the population most fearful of unfamiliar blacks is blacks themselves bc they know full well what 'dem niggas can do' so the series of demands we see flowing and changing out of Black Lives Matter is absolutely NOT bc they want to see the black/white relationship flourish. if they did then they would pay a thousand times more attention to the slaughter of blacks by blacks than the figment of their imagination that is racist cops hunting down blacks in cold blood and promoting false narratives of that kind they are falling into the same trap that ALL humans fall into when they finally get a little influence - they are trying to rig the system against their opponents to ensure they maintain as much control as they can it is a fools game. which isnt hard to tell when you actually listen and read some of the speeches and books being put out by these fools. there are nuggets of truth in them, but they twist and warp them into ideas that arent even half-truths anymore. all in an effort to maintain as much control as possible Black Lives Matter should face the same fate as the confederate flag. neither of them are all bad, but the damage they have done far outweighs any good they have brought. they both need to be retired permanently so that we can acknowledge the damage they have done and together work to create a new reality that benefits all personally i see nothing wrong with a rebrand to the name All Lives Matter. im positive we could get many more millions on board with that than the biased and self-serving title they chose and then proceeded to posion with their selfish quest for total control Edited January 28, 2017 by Meathead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 I like having sex w Asians, Blacks, Whites, and Latinos. Am I a raysis ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinreaper Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Ah, a full scale crusade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) Gays couldn't marry a few years ago while there was a black President who won 2 terms overwhelmingly. Time to for the black community to get over it. Not to mention this country is actually breeding more racists today than in the last 20, IMO. Edited January 28, 2017 by FireChan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 “I look forward confidently to the day when all who work for a living will be one with no thought to their separateness as Negroes, Jews, Italians or any other distinctions. - MLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Racism is a fake narrative designed to divide and conquer. And no, mass slaughters in world history were not raced based but politically motivated. See Mao and China and Stalin in Russia. Makes Hitler look like the JV team of evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Daytona is a month away. Carl Edwards retiring, Junior not doing so well and yeah. There a lot of issues I like having sex w Asians, Blacks, Whites, and Latinos. Am I a raysis ? no. Not unless you play David Allan Coe with these men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 You know who else wrote long, obsessive polemics on race issues? Hitler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Let's Talk Race Issues NASCAR News - FOX Sports News - NASCAR.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 so we are finally ready to start dipping our toe into answering this question what blacks/minorities want falls into two categories: reasonable righteousness related demands, and selfish exploitative destructive demands for the reasonable demands, thats the easy one bc most of them are already in place. studies and statistics show us that we have fixed the overwhelming majority of the institutional racism problems, most easily recognized in former disparities in legal and medical outcomes by race. those two simply dont exist any longer at significant levels, at least when the factor of real racism, differences in health coverage, or unwillingness of blacks to go to the doctor is removed. this is a tremendous accomplishment for those functions and we should all be proud. we need to keep an eye on them so they dont backtrack, but we have done a nice job getting equal outcomes for legal and medical situations in a pretty expeditious manner we have a little more work to do on equal employment and housing opportunity, but again we are dramatically further along with those than we ever have been. opportunities to blacks is almost as open as they are to whites, in some ways more so. disparities in education and income is still a problem, but a lot of that is due to poor cultural standards in blackness itself regarding the proper way to behave in what they see as a 'racist white world'. to a lot of blacks, whiteness just equals default badness. and of course, if your definition of racism is any time anyone white criticizes me then youre going to see racism EVERYWHERE and you will act accordingly. but if you can somehow strip that biased and dysfunctional view from your life filter, you will find a dramatically improved opportunity set for all blacks is out there ready to be taken advantage of so what is the primary motivator of this set of unreasonable and hostile demands of the alleged 'black leaders'? it really boils down to nothing more than simple control blacks have had precious little control throughout american history, so its little surprise they would have a great hunger for it. as whiteness has backed off and left it up to blacks to define what proper attitudes are for everyone regarding race, blacks have succumbed to the temptation to build all the rules in their favor. and with little effective push back from whites, they have succeeded. now their efforts are to mostly centered around trying to push that envelope further and further, to expand the definition of negative racial behavior as far away from themselves as they can, and instead to push as much of that on whiteness as possible this gave them the illusion of control. and as long as whiteness toed the line, everything was hunky dory the main problem there is that whiteness still dwarfs our blackness 2010 Population by Race (Roughly) 62% 191M white 13% 40M black 16% 49M hispanic/latino 09% 28M everybody else i would estimate that the percentage of the white population that would still qualify as moderately or severely 'racist' is about 35%. that means that 67M white americans still hold negative bias against blacks - more than the entire black population! further, i would guesstimate that back in 1970 we had about 80% of the white population was racist, meaning we have had roughly 77M white people abandon their formerly racist past, accept blacks as equals, and more or less accept them fully into the formerly white dominated society thus it is painfully easy to see it was foolish for blacks to think they could strong arm whiteness into accepting an agenda that was based primarily on the assumption that whiteness is STILL the only target for all race related problems in america. even with the help of enabling whites, there was still a ѕhitload of white people that were rightfully sick and tired of being called racist when they knew all the pain and hard work it took them to admit to themselves that they were and to bring about that change in themselves so we sent them seething to the polls this past cycle. and of course they latched onto the one guy willing to buck this ridiculous wave of political correctness and speak some uncomfortable truths about problems along the borders, problems in our inner cities, and the unwillingness of many whites to continue to cede control over the definition of their own level of racism and who is the main instigator of this insatiable hunger for control? none other of course than the separatist organization known as Black Lives Matter exactly how much control have you given up when an organization can redefine words/terms like 'thug', 'gangster', and even 'all lives matter' to have default meanings thoroughly contrary to what they have always been used for and have completely valid intuitive meanings of their own? and more importantly, in a way that makes it IMPOSSIBLE for them to be used in a negative manner when accurately describing negative black behaviors? the leadership vacuum is enormous in our blackness right now. by far the best black leader weve had lately has been obama himself - and hes only really half black. further, he appears to be very well intentioned but also started out with a pretty hefty bias of his own, being taught by an openly racist preacher in rev jeremiah wright, as we can see by the numerous race related errors in perspective he started out with. for example, his pronouncement that his white grandmother was a 'typical white person' afraid of unfamiliar blacks - ignoring the reality that the population most fearful of unfamiliar blacks is blacks themselves bc they know full well what 'dem niggas can do' so the series of demands we see flowing and changing out of Black Lives Matter is absolutely NOT bc they want to see the black/white relationship flourish. if they did then they would pay a thousand times more attention to the slaughter of blacks by blacks than the figment of their imagination that is racist cops hunting down blacks in cold blood and promoting false narratives of that kind they are falling into the same trap that ALL humans fall into when they finally get a little influence - they are trying to rig the system against their opponents to ensure they maintain as much control as they can it is a fools game. which isnt hard to tell when you actually listen and read some of the speeches and books being put out by these fools. there are nuggets of truth in them, but they twist and warp them into ideas that arent even half-truths anymore. all in an effort to maintain as much control as possible Black Lives Matter should face the same fate as the confederate flag. neither of them are all bad, but the damage they have done far outweighs any good they have brought. they both need to be retired permanently so that we can acknowledge the damage they have done and together work to create a new reality that benefits all personally i see nothing wrong with a rebrand to the name All Lives Matter. im positive we could get many more millions on board with that than the biased and self-serving title they chose and then proceeded to posion with their selfish quest for total control I don't usually make it through posts this long but I'm going to give this a long careful read (but shorter reply) over the weekend as I'm genuinely interested in this topic and your point of view. 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Meathead Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) You know who else wrote long, obsessive polemics on race issues? Hitler. lmao! you know who else liked to make inapt comparisons out of the blue? https://youtu.be/ubCl5_kDWks crap. how do you embed a youtube vid? ive seen it done here but apparently its not with yt's embed code. idk Edited January 28, 2017 by Meathead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 lmao! you know who else liked to make inapt comparisons out of the blue? https://youtu.be/ubCl5_kDWks Can you explain to me why electing Trump has washed away the achievement of electing the first black President? Did more folks become racist because BO was in office? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 “I look forward confidently to the day when all who work for a living will be one with no thought to their separateness as Negroes, Jews, Italians or any other distinctions. - MLK "i look forward confidently to the day when we all look at race identities with little more emphasis than what we put on shoe size or eye color." - MH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 "i look forward confidently to the day when we all look at race identities with little more emphasis than what we put on shoe size or eye color." - MH Yeah, all you small-footed brown-eyed freaks say that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meathead Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) Can you explain to me why electing Trump has washed away the achievement of electing the first black President? Did more folks become racist because BO was in office? i dont understand the first question, mainly bc i didnt say that. please elaborate to the second question i would say yes, for two reasons. first, having a perceived black man in the WH emboldened racist and borderline racist blacks to expand their one-way definition of racism to be even more white-only centric than it already was. thats why BLM was able to thrive as we even saw black churches set up tables in Ferguson extolling the narrative that whites were to blame for all of this. i would also say that some whites emboldened their own racism at the sight of a 'black' man in 'their' house, they didnt like seeing a person of color in what was always previously their job, so their racism surged back for a spell i think the white part of that settled down by the time obamas second term rolled around. the black racism continued to flourish, however, as there still was virtually no push back to an expanding one-way black agenda of white-only racism. it wasnt until we drove the seething mass of disaffected whites to the polls that we exposed our enormous blunder. now its going to take the better part of the next decade to work back to where we could and should have been shortly after obamas election: with ppl from both sides working together to stop this cycle of blame and unite under common causes instead of creating new race wars Yeah, all you small-footed brown-eyed freaks say that... i dont even get that Edited January 28, 2017 by Meathead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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