Fadingpain Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I am convinced that anyone with access to all the game film from this past season could put together a fairly lengthy "Lowlight" reel of bad Tyrod throws that obviously cost us either a decent completion, a huge gain, or a TD. I mean he routinely leaves big plays all over the field. Is that taken into account in this guy's analysis? There is no need to smoke screen Tyrod's deficiencies by talking about drops, O line play, pass protection, how well the WRs run routes, etc... You just need to focus on Tyrod and watch the way he plays on passing downs. He's not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Well, I believe Cousins is getting a lot of hype at the moment and isn't as good as he's heralded to be so....just about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I am convinced that anyone with access to all the game film from this past season could put together a fairly lengthy "Lowlight" reel of bad Tyrod throws that obviously cost us either a decent completion, a huge gain, or a TD. I mean he routinely leaves big plays all over the field. Is that taken into account in this guy's analysis? There is no need to smoke screen Tyrod's deficiencies by talking about drops, O line play, pass protection, how well the WRs run routes, etc... You just need to focus on Tyrod and watch the way he plays on passing downs. He's not good enough. I am convinced that a lot of posters here that bemoan TT don't watch other qbs week in and week out. I made a list to see where I thought TT stacked up. I would like to ask anyone to challenge me on this: (in no order just gonna go stream of consiousness) Much Better: Brady Roethlisberger Rodgers Matt Ryan Drew Brees Andrew Luck Russell Wilson A little Better: Cam Dalton Winston Dak Cousins Eli Jameis Mariota Going with those names Tyrod is the 16th best QB, yes I left out Flacco who is living on a SB from a few years ago, the corpse of Carson Palmer, and others. I could even make an argument against Cousins and Dalton that wouldn't take too much work and Eli if you looked at his performance this year. For the TT haters please tell me who I missed (I'm sure it was at least one) but doing this exercise yourself might show you that he is better than you think when stacked up against the rest of the league. TT contract next year would make him the 17th highest paid qb next year which would be right in line with production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookie Man Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Id swap Tyrod for Cousins no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I am convinced that anyone with access to all the game film from this past season could put together a fairly lengthy "Lowlight" reel of bad Tyrod throws that obviously cost us either a decent completion, a huge gain, or a TD. I mean he routinely leaves big plays all over the field. Is that taken into account in this guy's analysis? There is no need to smoke screen Tyrod's deficiencies by talking about drops, O line play, pass protection, how well the WRs run routes, etc... You just need to focus on Tyrod and watch the way he plays on passing downs. He's not good enough. He routinely leaves big plays on the field? So when Rex came here we had a juggernaut offense i assume. Where did all these juggernaut offensive players come from all of a sudden. Going into week 17 we were 7th in the NFL in scoring and we've ranked #1 in the NFL in "big plays" in back to back seasons now and have been top 10 in scoring over 2 seasons (seasons, not weeks) under TT. So how many big plays has he really left all over the field? Are you stating that this team really shouldve ranked #1 in the NFL in scoring then? Maybe 2nd at worst? Greatest show on turf v 2.0? People crack me up. TT was the only thing holding this juggernaut offense back in 2015 and 2016. When Rex arrived and said he was going to build a bully he really meant he was going to establish the greatest offense in the NFL. 7th in the NFL wasnt good enough for Bills fans. Our sights were locked on at least being top 5 in offense i suppose. 🙄🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 14 drops? Seriously? That's less than one a game, and we had a lot of games with multiple drops. This stat seems way low to me. I believe there's a lot of subjectivity to those numbers. They decide whether or not it's a "catchable ball", or the ball has to be within some window relative to the receiver's body and head, or something, before it's called a "drop". But high-quality NFL WR routinely make grabs outside that window Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Cousins is a lot more of a gun slinger than Tyrod Taylor. The INT difference is significant but so is the TD and yardage per game. I think where they are the similar is when both are playing with the game on the line they are still struggling to play clutch football. This is a skill that can come naturally or be learned. Different offenses different schemes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) The stat of drops is easily the dumbest stat that is kept and still used by fans. It's soooooooo subjective. People I watch the games with almost never agree on what constitutes a drop and what doesn't. And there is never a theory attached to it, like, it's not as if one way to look at it is if a WR gets both hands on the ball. It's always just the eyeball test. One guy will say that was too tough of a catch. One guy with say it's a drop. One guy will say he could have caught it but it was more of a bad pass. One guy will say the defender made a good play so it's not a drop.Doesnt matter if everyone is graded the same does it I am convinced that a lot of posters here that bemoan TT don't watch other qbs week in and week out. I made a list to see where I thought TT stacked up. I would like to ask anyone to challenge me on this: (in no order just gonna go stream of consiousness) Much Better: Brady Roethlisberger Rodgers Matt Ryan Drew Brees Andrew Luck Russell Wilson A little Better: Cam Dalton Winston Dak Cousins Eli Jameis Mariota Going with those names Tyrod is the 16th best QB, yes I left out Flacco who is living on a SB from a few years ago, the corpse of Carson Palmer, and others. I could even make an argument against Cousins and Dalton that wouldn't take too much work and Eli if you looked at his performance this year. For the TT haters please tell me who I missed (I'm sure it was at least one) but doing this exercise yourself might show you that he is better than you think when stacked up against the rest of the league. TT contract next year would make him the 17th highest paid qb next year which would be right in line with production. Got it so you leave Palmer off because even though he is better he is old. Stafford?? Carr?? See you left Flacco off because it would hurt trying to put Close to top 15. And yes Alex Smith is better than Tyrod too So really he is in the 20s Edited January 12, 2017 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Doesnt matter if everyone is graded the same does it Got it so you leave Palmer off because even though he is better he is old. Stafford?? Carr?? See you left Flacco off because it would hurt trying to put Close to top 15. And yes Alex Smith is better than Tyrod too So really he is in the 20s Palmer was pretty bad this year and hurt his team with turnovers. Flacco... worse in YPA by half a yard, 3 more passing TDs, 9 more INTs, Lower passer rating, 1 less Total TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Got it so you leave Palmer off because even though he is better he is old. Stafford?? Carr?? See you left Flacco off because it would hurt trying to put Close to top 15. And yes Alex Smith is better than Tyrod too So really he is in the 20s I did indeed forget Carr and Stafford (like I said I'm sure I missed at least 1). I left Flacco off because he was terrible this year. Flacco - 6.42 ypa, 22 total tds, 15 ints, 3 fumbles lost, 58.6 QBR, 83.5 QB Rating Tyrod - 6.93 ypa, 23 total tds, 6 ints, 2 fumbles lost, 67.4 QBR, 89.6 QB Rating I ranked Tyrod above Carson because he is a shell of himself. Going forward I would prefer Tyrod to Carson Palmer. It isn't too far off either: Carson - 7.09 ypa, 26 total tds, 14 ints, 4 fumbles lost, 60.4 QBR, 87.2 QB Rating Alex Smith is Tyrod Taylor. He is the best player comparison in the league to me. He takes care of the ball, is mobile, and can struggle passing the ball. He also proves you can win with a TT type of QB. Even assuming I give you those guys, that puts him at no worse than 21. However you using Flacco and Carson speaks to me point of many of the TT bashers don't watch other teams. Hell you would have to try hard to say that Cam had a better year than TT and be able to prove it with any appreciable stat. Eli struggled this year as well. Watch other teams and you will see a lot of the things that you and others crucify TT for from their QBs. Palmer was pretty bad this year and hurt his team with turnovers. Flacco... worse in YPA by half a yard, 3 more passing TDs, 9 more INTs, Lower passer rating, 1 less Total TD. Dammit it took me too long to get stats and post my reply! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 (edited) I did indeed forget Carr and Stafford (like I said I'm sure I missed at least 1). I left Flacco off because he was terrible this year. Flacco - 6.42 ypa, 22 total tds, 15 ints, 3 fumbles lost, 58.6 QBR, 83.5 QB Rating Tyrod - 6.93 ypa, 23 total tds, 6 ints, 2 fumbles lost, 67.4 QBR, 89.6 QB Rating I ranked Tyrod above Carson because he is a shell of himself. Going forward I would prefer Tyrod to Carson Palmer. It isn't too far off either: Carson - 7.09 ypa, 26 total tds, 14 ints, 4 fumbles lost, 60.4 QBR, 87.2 QB Rating Alex Smith is Tyrod Taylor. He is the best player comparison in the league to me. He takes care of the ball, is mobile, and can struggle passing the ball. He also proves you can win with a TT type of QB. Even assuming I give you those guys, that puts him at no worse than 21. However you using Flacco and Carson speaks to me point of many of the TT bashers don't watch other teams. Hell you would have to try hard to say that Cam had a better year than TT and be able to prove it with any appreciable stat. Eli struggled this year as well. Watch other teams and you will see a lot of the things that you and others crucify TT for from their QBs. Dammit it took me too long to get stats and post my reply! I do watch other QBs. Watch them a ton because i like to see good QB play. Yes Carson is not what he used to be and is not an answer long term for a franchise but he is a Better QB Just like Flacco, Cam and others. Heck Romo as well. So if i wanted a QB that gives me the chance to win for 1 run yes all those QBs i listed i would pick before TT. If you just use Stats to justify an argument not the best way because really at that point it is Apples to Oranges with the different systems So look at the QB traits Ball out on time Ball placement Reading defense Pocket presence Etc etc Edited January 12, 2017 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I do watch other QBs. Watch them a ton because i like to see good QB play. Yes Carson is not what he used to be and is not an answer long term for a franchise but he is a Better QB Just like Flacco, Cam and others. Heck Romo as well. So if i wanted a QB that gives me the chance to win for 1 run yes all those QBs i listed i would pick before TT. If you just use Stats to justify an argument not the best way because really at that point it is Apples to Oranges with the different systems So look at the QB traits Ball out on time Ball placement Reading defense Pocket presence Etc etc So, to be clear, you would argue that Flacco was a more effective QB this year than Tyrod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I am convinced that a lot of posters here that bemoan TT don't watch other qbs week in and week out. I made a list to see where I thought TT stacked up. I would like to ask anyone to challenge me on this: (in no order just gonna go stream of consiousness) Much Better: Brady Roethlisberger Rodgers Matt Ryan Drew Brees Andrew Luck Russell Wilson A little Better: Cam Dalton Winston Dak Cousins Eli Jameis Mariota Going with those names Tyrod is the 16th best QB, yes I left out Flacco who is living on a SB from a few years ago, the corpse of Carson Palmer, and others. I could even make an argument against Cousins and Dalton that wouldn't take too much work and Eli if you looked at his performance this year. For the TT haters please tell me who I missed (I'm sure it was at least one) but doing this exercise yourself might show you that he is better than you think when stacked up against the rest of the league. TT contract next year would make him the 17th highest paid qb next year which would be right in line with production. That list is pretty accurate. In terms of effectiveness he falls in that 10-15 range. He's a lesser passer but better player than Dalton or Cousins, for example. Dalton has been pretty blessed with receiving and OL talent in his career but this year with a diminished grouped he dropped pretty hard and struggled to get his offense in the end zone. And that's just diminished......he had AJ Green more than TT had Sammy at his disposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 So, to be clear, you would argue that Flacco was a more effective QB this year than Tyrod? Yes to be clear Flacco gets the Ball out on time Has displayed very good pocket presence Uses entire field Cycles reads quickly Have very good ball placement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I like Fahey. Hes a good follow on twitter, but i totally disagree with him on Taylor. He was obsessing over Taylors game @ SEA. It was his best of the season. Problem is I didnt see any comments of his when we played OAK or PIT or BAL. Hes found the best tape of Tyrod and badically dug in. Today he was complaing that Tyrod gets no YAC from his WRs, totally ignoring the main reason for no YAC. Hes non consistently accurate and cant read or see the middle of the field good enough......which is where WRs get most of their YAC across the middle. Does Tyrod suck? NO Hes okay Fahey though seems to think you can build a long term plan with Tyrod and I couldnt disagree more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Yes to be clear Flacco gets the Ball out on time Has displayed very good pocket presence Uses entire field Cycles reads quickly Have very good ball placement Alrighty then. I'll still listen on some of your personnel commentary, but I cannot take you remotely seriously when it comes to QBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estro Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Yes to be clear Flacco gets the Ball out on time Has displayed very good pocket presence Uses entire field Cycles reads quickly Have very good ball placement Flacco has some warts, but anybody who cant see that he's so much better than Tyrod cant properly asses the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Alrighty then. I'll still listen on some of your personnel commentary, but I cannot take you remotely seriously when it comes to QBs. Yeah i know right. Afterall Harbaugh obviously doent see what the COT sees either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Flacco has some warts, but anybody who cant see that he's so much better than Tyrod cant properly asses the position. He's the better passer and with 2 minutes left down 7 and the ball at my own 20 I'd rather have Flacco. But he's generally less effective in the NFL right now. He's also reached a plateau in his career........he can probably stay there for longer than Tyrod will be able to maintain his multi-faceted game......but that only matters if you see Tyrod as a 5-7 year option which I don't think many people believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Yes to be clear Flacco gets the Ball out on time Has displayed very good pocket presence Uses entire field Cycles reads quickly Have very good ball placement Just Googled Joe Flacco. That's it, I didn't add anything to it. Here is the 2nd result. He has to play, but there can be no more excuses. It's not as if his performance just dropped off this season. He wasn't very good in 2015, either. Flacco played in 10 games that year before he suffered a season-ending knee injury. He completed 266 of 413 passes for 2,791 yards and 14 touchdowns. He also had 12 interceptions and finished with a quarterback rating of 83.1. This season Flacco finished with 4,317 passing yards by completing 436 of 672 passes, but he also threw 15 interceptions and had mechanical and accuracy problems. Bisciotti thought Flacco's difficulties were related to the injury. When the offensive line got hit by injuries early in the season, Flacco got rid of the ball too quickly. They need to criticize Flacco for poor footwork and pocket awareness. They need to demand patience going through his progressions instead of throwing to his check-down guys so quickly. He's the better passer and with 2 minutes left down 7 and the ball at my own 20 I'd rather have Flacco. But he's generally less effective in the NFL right now. He's also reached a plateau in his career........he can probably stay there for longer than Tyrod will be able to maintain his multi-faceted game......but that only matters if you see Tyrod as a 5-7 year option which I don't think many people believe. Agree with all of this. I would like to see a team built up around TT. Then I would like to see some competition for him. Some say you can't win with TT and KC is doing just that with a TT clone. I don't know if TT is the long term answer at this point I would lean no. He is however without a doubt the best option for the Bills. They can keep TT AND try to get better at the position it doesn't have to be one or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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