Kyle Posey: Debunking the Tyrod Taylor Myth

[MAJBobby]

That's a strawman argument. When people say "let's keep TT", I don't really think it means "We have found our franchise QB in TT. Look no more." You see the difference? There's nothing wrong with keeping TT and drafting a QBs within the next 2 drafts (or however long it takes). Then let there be a QB competition until one firmly shows us the goods.

Strawman OK maybe but history of this organization shows that if the option is picked no QB will he drafted in round 1 or 2.

 

I know it sucks but really this team is an illusion. It looks like it is on the verge to compete but it really isnt and alot of the key players are up there in age.

 

It really needs a complete rebuild but wont get it because of the drought and the pressure just to get out from under the drought

[Formerly Allan in MD]

I personally think Tyrod has developed as much as he is going to as far as mechanics etc.

 

The real question now.....what can be done on the offensive side of the ball to make him more productive in the passing game (if he says)

 

I believe there are things that can be done in that area when yu consider he played without his TOP receiver for nearly the whole year and woods was in and out of the lineup.

 

The next question I have is......why did Tyrod Taylor all of a sudden find his TE which had been running free in the final games of the season?

Your fourth point has puzzled me for two seasons. Clay has often been free but hasn't been thrown to very much. Many have criticized Clay for some unknown reason other than he hasn't shown up well in the stats. A good quarterback, on a good team, will distribute the ball. When you have weapons and don't fully exploit them, that's a problem. Woods was not thrown to that often as well. Recently that's changed. Does that mean TT has changed? I'm not so sure. He still holds onto the ball too long. That's a recipe for missed opportunities, sacks, and serious injury.

[BaaadThingsMan]

That's a strawman argument. When people say "let's keep TT", I don't really think it means "We have found our franchise QB in TT. Look no more." You see the difference? There's nothing wrong with keeping TT and drafting a QBs within the next 2 drafts (or however long it takes). Then let there be a QB competition until one firmly shows us the goods.

again, reasonable take

[fridge]

What did I say that you are disputing?

I'm not disputing anything. I'm just getting tired of the, "it's always the same people...they just want to be right argument."

 

I just want the team to be successful and make the playoffs more than I care about anything else. If by some miracle Taylor starts playing some clutch football late in games then I would shut my mouth immediately, eat crow or whatever, and happily enjoy his play.

 

I said it goes both ways because the two extremes, The Honorable St. John from Hemet of Troy and Colonial Major Bobby don't really reflect their common desire, to see the Bills win the Superbowl. It gets annoying reading that people think there's a negative group that just wants to be right. I think after 17 years we're just getting cranky and have stopped buying into the hype.

 

If Taylor was superman like a lot of you think, he would've carried the team in a few of their closer games and maybe we'd be in the playoffs right now. His disappearing act in Oakland and his 3-and-out parade in Miami seem to be long forgotten by most here. It goes both ways.

[aristocrat]

Yes lets Settle your right people do deserve what they get every year with the Settle mentality

 

not settling. but there is nobody in free agency better and we probably dont have a shot at anyone in the draft that might be available. so what's your suggestion?

[BaaadThingsMan]

Strawman OK maybe but history of this organization shows that if the option is picked no QB will he drafted in round 1 or 2.

 

I know it sucks but really this team is an illusion. It looks like it is on the verge to compete but it really isnt and alot of the key players are up there in age.

 

It really needs a complete rebuild but wont get it because of the drought and the pressure just to get out from under the drought

I cannot be sure of anything because I don't work for the Bills. Do you? History doesn't mean ****. The future is NOW!

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

But Consistenly how are they. See that is the key they all have bad plays, bad games. But overall they are doing what good QB traits are. Ball out on time, Ball Accurate, reading an entire defense, changing play at line, hanging in the pocket

 

I can't say for sure as i don't have the time to watch All-22s on wentz and goff. But i did watch a few eagles games this year... and in those games Wentz misses throws. He's late, he overthrows, he underthrows. He has good pocket awareness but the ball getting out on time is not one of his strengths. He had 12 games with a YPA under 7. 8 with a YPA under 6. He misses easy ones - a lot.

 

Higher INT%, lower YPA, less sacks, more sack yards.

 

After week two - Where did the Rub Routes go? (Ran alot in week 1 and two)

 

After week 2 - where did the slants go (ran alot last year and this year)

 

After week 2 - where did the option routes go

 

After week 2 - where did the combo routes go

 

See Big Boy route concepts.

 

Not run 8 yards and turn to QB

 

Watch week 1 and tell me Tyrod was the only reason we lost... Our line, and mccoy specifically gave up a ton of pressures. Oh and we were still late getting plays in and getting to the line. This causes problems when trying to predict coverage at the line.

 

Also - i don't recall seeing much of those concepts in those games but i may be mistaken. Roman never had those concepts in his offense. He has 900 formations, no audibles, and takes forever to get a play in.

Edited January 12, 2017 by dneveu

[BuffaloHokie13]

After week two - Where did the Rub Routes go? (Ran alot in week 1 and two)

 

After week 2 - where did the slants go (ran alot last year and this year)

 

After week 2 - where did the option routes go

 

After week 2 - where did the combo routes go

 

See Big Boy route concepts.

 

Not run 8 yards and turn to QB

After week 2 - we didn't score less than 16 points again until Tyrod got benched

 

After week 2 - we won as many games as we lost, instead of losing all of them

 

After week 2 - Our OC called plays and prepared in a way that was more suited to our personnel

 

Why are you so interested in developing a QB who isn't the long term answer into something he's not when he's a perfectly capable bridge QB as is?

 

This is the NFL, you play to win the games. And to do it consistently you use your personnel as effectively as possible. Establishing a quick timing based short passing offense will not magically create us a Tom Brady. You have to find him and then adjust your scheme to him. Development is not the same as transformation. Tyrod is what he is, he isn't going to be Tom or Ben. Use his skillset properly, and you might get Russ Wilson on a good day. Don't put square pegs in round holes, and don't use a hammer to make it work. That's how you break things.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

 

not settling. but there is nobody in free agency better and we probably dont have a shot at anyone in the draft that might be available. so what's your suggestion?

 

Overdraft someone and end up with tannehill/locker/ponder/EJ/gabbert/bortles and so on - and waste a bunch of time and money seeing if he's any good.

Edited January 12, 2017 by dneveu

[BaaadThingsMan]

I'm not disputing anything. I'm just getting tired of the, "it's always the same people...they just want to be right argument."

 

I just want the team to be successful and make the playoffs more than I care about anything else. If by some miracle Taylor starts playing some clutch football late in games then I would shut my mouth immediately, eat crow or whatever, and happily enjoy his play.

 

I said it goes both ways because the two extremes, The Honorable St. John from Hemet of Troy and Colonial Major Bobby don't really reflect their common desire, to see the Bills win the Superbowl. It gets annoying reading that people think there's a negative group that just wants to be right. I think after 17 years we're just getting cranky and have stopped buying into the hype.

 

If Taylor was superman like a lot of you think, he would've carried the team in a few of their closer games and maybe we'd be in the playoffs right now. His disappearing act in Oakland and his 3-and-out parade in Miami seem to be long forgotten by most here. It goes both ways.

i'm mostly of the opinion that TT is limited passing, I just want to know IF he can or will still develop that part of his game further or if he was limited by the playcalls?

[MAJBobby]

 

not settling. but there is nobody in free agency better and we probably dont have a shot at anyone in the draft that might be available. so what's your suggestion?

Thats settleing

 

Here combine over before you have to make a decision. There are assets on this team.

 

So go get a Fanchise QB (Yes i think Watson and Trubinsky will be the next two great young QBs).

 

So go get one.

[mannc]

Ask Alex Smith.

Or Matthew Stanford

[MAJBobby]

 

I can't say for sure as i don't have the time to watch All-22s on wentz and goff. But i did watch a few eagles games this year... and in those games Wentz misses throws. He's late, he overthrows, he underthrows. He has good pocket awareness but the ball getting out on time is not one of his strengths. He had 12 games with a YPA under 7. 8 with a YPA under 6. He misses easy ones - a lot.

 

Higher INT%, lower YPA, less sacks, more sack yards.

 

 

Watch week 1 and tell me Tyrod was the only reason we lost... Our line, and mccoy specifically gave up a ton of pressures. Oh and we were still late getting plays in and getting to the line. This causes problems when trying to predict coverage at the line.

 

Also - i don't recall seeing much of those concepts in those games but i may be mistaken. Roman never had those concepts in his offense. He has 900 formations, no audibles, and takes forever to get a play in.

My Post had NOTHING to do with saying Tyrod is any reason but those passing concepts were in preason, camp and first two weeks where the QB struggled.

 

OC fired and well those concepts gone as well

 

Overdraft someone and end up with tannehill/locker/ponder/EJ/gabbert/bortles and so on - and waste a bunch of time and money seeing if he's any good.

The standard overdraft remark

[Kirby Jackson]

I'm not disputing anything. I'm just getting tired of the, "it's always the same people...they just want to be right argument."

 

I just want the team to be successful and make the playoffs more than I care about anything else. If by some miracle Taylor starts playing some clutch football late in games then I would shut my mouth immediately, eat crow or whatever, and happily enjoy his play.

 

I said it goes both ways because the two extremes, The Honorable St. John from Hemet of Troy and Colonial Major Bobby don't really reflect their common desire, to see the Bills win the Superbowl. It gets annoying reading that people think there's a negative group that just wants to be right. I think after 17 years we're just getting cranky and have stopped buying into the hype.

 

If Taylor was superman like a lot of you think, he would've carried the team in a few of their closer games and maybe we'd be in the playoffs right now. His disappearing act in Oakland and his 3-and-out parade in Miami seem to be long forgotten by most here. It goes both ways.

Except I didn't say any of that. I said that the offense was 7th in points with him (that is a fact). I said that he misses throws most QBs make and makes some plays that no QBs make (that's an opinion but good luck arguing it). I believe that using basic surface level stats like passing yards are a TERRIBLE way to analyze his performance when much more advanced statistics are available that reflect actual impact (again it is 2017 not 1954). All of these more developed statistical data points suggest that he played around the middle of the league. I don't know how middle of the league is "Superman?" I also don't know how middle of the league is "he is no different than EJ Manual?"

 

We all wan to win. That goes without saying. I am just of the school of thought that you are more likely to regress from middle of the league QB play than you are to improve on middle of the league QB play. If the Bills offense is more effective next year I would be thrilled to be wrong. I just don't see someone coming in here and putting up 25.9 PPG (that is an opinion that all can feel free to dispute).

[Maury Ballstein]

Overdraft someone and end up with tannehill/locker/ponder/EJ/gabbert/bortles and so on - and waste a bunch of time and money seeing if he's any good.

Or Dak Prescott, Wentz, Mariota, Winston

 

Let's stay 7-9 forever with a Ravens backup! That's a better plan.

 

CoT out of control. Like Tyrod vs Oak and Pitt.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Ryan L Billz

[MAJBobby]

After week 2 - we didn't score less than 16 points again until Tyrod got benched

 

After week 2 - we won as many games as we lost, instead of losing all of them

 

After week 2 - Our OC called plays and prepared in a way that was more suited to our personnel

 

Why are you so interested in developing a QB who isn't the long term answer into something he's not when he's a perfectly capable bridge QB as is?

 

This is the NFL, you play to win the games. And to do it consistently you use your personnel as effectively as possible. Establishing a quick timing based short passing offense will not magically create us a Tom Brady. You have to find him and then adjust your scheme to him. Development is not the same as transformation. Tyrod is what he is, he isn't going to be Tom or Ben. Use his skillset properly, and you might get Russ Wilson on a good day. Don't put square pegs in round holes, and don't use a hammer to make it work. That's how you break things.

Got it so like i said a very basic designed passing concept offense for a flawed QB to execute

 

And we are right back at worst case scenario for this option

 

Making a decision based off production of an offense built to hide flaws.

 

Where i, Others and Hopefully the front offense can look past that and see the perfomance of the Actual QB traits

Edited January 12, 2017 by MAJBobby

[BaaadThingsMan]

Why are you so interested in developing a QB who isn't the long term answer into something he's not when he's a perfectly capable bridge QB as is?

 

This is the NFL, you play to win the games.

I think you answered your own question, to win more games. They didn't win enough to make the playoffs, maybe they could have with more passing when needed? And some !@#$in defense!

[MAJBobby]

Question for those that think we can keep TT and still draft a QB.

 

The argument i see is we can Win with Tyrod we need to fix defense and weapons and RT.

 

So where are all those players coming from when you are cap strapped (after picking up the option)?

 

The draft, ok well where is this QB then again?

 

 

So see just settled on a flawed QB

Edited January 12, 2017 by MAJBobby

[BuffaloHokie13]

Got it so like i said a very basic designed passing concept offense for a flawed QB to execute

 

And we are right back at worst case scenario for this option

 

Making a decision based off production of an offense built to hide flaws.

 

Where i, Others and Hopefully the front offense can look past that and see the perfomance of the Actual QB traits

Tom Brady isn't a runner. The Patriots don't run read option plays or QB rollouts very often. Russ Wilson is short and athletic, he gets rolled out very often so that he has open passing lanes and the option to run if needed. Both the Pats* and Seahawks are perennial superbowl contenders. You always design to your players strengths, not for future imaginary players.

[fridge]

i'm mostly of the opinion that TT is limited passing, I just want to know IF he can or will still develop that part of his game further or if he was limited by the playcalls?

I don't think he's going to develop at all. It is possible that a different playbook could make a difference and give him better route trees to work with.

 

The problem with hitting receivers in stride appears to be a rock solid flaw in his game though, and I don't think that's something you just pickup in your sixth offseason or whatever it is.