Thurman#1 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) I already said you're right. What more do you want from me? I'm sorry. EJ Manuel's better than Tyrod and he should be the starter. Sorry. And you're right too, Kumquats are more delicious than radishes. Can't blame you for trying to switch the argument, though. The main one you're working on sure doesn't look like a winner. Edited February 15, 2017 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) I already said you're right. What more do you want from me? I'm sorry. EJ Manuel's better than Tyrod and he should be the starter. Sorry.Give em hell Taylor ! http://youtube.com/watch?v=MIAuac3WdrQ&feature=onebox Edited February 15, 2017 by Ryan L Billz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share Posted February 15, 2017 Back to the topic. https://www.google.com/amp/s/cle.247sports.com/Bolt/Report-Mitch-Trubisky-a-top-five-lock-51267174/Amp?client=safari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) I agree. Trubisky's middling record as a starter (against weak competition) is a huge red flag for a supposed first round guy. I can't think of a single quality QB in the league right now who did not win big at the college level. Newton, Mariota, Winston, Wilson, Cousins, etc. Even Tyrod. Rodgers and Prescott won a lot of games for schools that had not had a lot of previous success and played very tough conferences. You really should dig more into some of these QB's records. While Trubisky was 8-5 this year, they went 11-3 in 2015 though Trubisky didn't start/play all those. Beyond Russel Wilson's 11-3 Wisconsin season, look at the W-L while he was with NC State. His first 2 years were really pathetic. Individual stats sucked too, completion % below 60 while he was there. Going to Wisconsin for a year was just the best decision he ever made. Dak Prescott, 2013 record, 7-6. 9-4 his last season, big difference between his and Trubisky's 8-5. Sorry, I don't buy in to the win-loss argument unless the guy barely ever won his entire career. Trubisky's career completion % of 68 and his overall rating of 158 compare very favorably with NFL starters from college and match Deshaun Watson's. Tom Brady's was 62% and 135, Drew Brees 61% and 133. For me, watching Trubisky's decision making and reads compared to Watson's have me favoring Trubisky. Watson played tougher opponents but also had far better receivers and overall team. Edited February 15, 2017 by GaryPinC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 You really should dig more into some of these QB's records. While Trubisky was 8-5 this year, they went 11-3 in 2015 though Trubisky didn't start/play all those. Beyond Russel Wilson's 11-3 Wisconsin season, look at the W-L while he was with NC State. His first 2 years were really pathetic. Individual stats sucked too, completion % below 60 while he was there. Going to Wisconsin for a year was just the best decision he ever made. Dak Prescott, 2013 record, 7-6. 9-4 his last season, big difference between his and Trubisky's 8-5. Sorry, I don't buy in to the win-loss argument unless the guy barely ever won his entire career. Trubisky's career completion % of 68 and his overall rating of 158 compare very favorably with NFL starters from college and match Deshaun Watson's. Tom Brady's was 62% and 135, Drew Brees 61% and 133. For me, watching Trubisky's decision making and reads compared to Watson's have me favoring Trubisky. Watson played tougher opponents but also had far better receivers and overall team. Russell Wilson and Dak Prescott also both came into the league as at least 3 year starters. In Wilson's 3 years at NC State and final year at Wisconsin he faced 11 ranked opponents 2008: #13 South Florida, #22 UNC 2009: #15 Virginia Tech w/ Tyrod, #24 UNC 2010: #16 FSU, #22 West Virginia w/ Geno 2011: #8 Nebraska, #16 Michigan State, #19 Penn State, #17 Michigan State, #5 Oregon With Dak, again you need to understand that we aren't just looking at W/L, but quality of opponents. From 2013-2015 Dak faced 2013: Auburn (Lost National Championship to FSU), #10 LSU, #15 Texas A&M w/ Manziel & Evans, #1 Alabama 2014: #8 LSU, #6 Texas A&M, #2 Auburn, #5 Alabama, #19 Ole Miss 2015: #14 LSU, #14 Texas A&M, #2 Alabama, #18 Ole Miss Over their careers each of them played against as many quality opponents as Trubisky has faced FBS opponents period. This isn't to say he's terrible or definitely won't work out, just that his body of work is concerning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webster Guy Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 A few recent mocks have him there at 10 if we want him. I personally like the trade down-grab Mahomes and another second round pick assuming a beast like Hooker doesn't fall to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share Posted February 15, 2017 A few recent mocks have him there at 10 if we want him. I personally like the trade down-grab Mahomes and another second round pick assuming a beast like Hooker doesn't fall to us. Sounds ok but still holds an element of risk. Texans or other qb hungry team could make a play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Russell Wilson and Dak Prescott also both came into the league as at least 3 year starters. In Wilson's 3 years at NC State and final year at Wisconsin he faced 11 ranked opponents 2008: #13 South Florida, #22 UNC 2009: #15 Virginia Tech w/ Tyrod, #24 UNC 2010: #16 FSU, #22 West Virginia w/ Geno 2011: #8 Nebraska, #16 Michigan State, #19 Penn State, #17 Michigan State, #5 Oregon With Dak, again you need to understand that we aren't just looking at W/L, but quality of opponents. From 2013-2015 Dak faced 2013: Auburn (Lost National Championship to FSU), #10 LSU, #15 Texas A&M w/ Manziel & Evans, #1 Alabama 2014: #8 LSU, #6 Texas A&M, #2 Auburn, #5 Alabama, #19 Ole Miss 2015: #14 LSU, #14 Texas A&M, #2 Alabama, #18 Ole Miss Over their careers each of them played against as many quality opponents as Trubisky has faced FBS opponents period. This isn't to say he's terrible or definitely won't work out, just that his body of work is concerning. I do get it, and I understand that NC's schedule strength is a concern. I just think that in terms of judging a QB, the ACC is competitive enough to do so even if they have less top 25 ranked teams than the bigger conferences. Alabama and OSU have 2 of the premiere college football programs. How many of their QB's are starting in the NFL? I'm just saying it's not as simple as looking at W/L or quality of opponents. Just look at Russel Wilson's stats against quality opponents when he was at NC State. More terrible than good there. Other than his great season with Wisconsin, he looked like a middling QB at NC State, which arguably had lower quality opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 I do get it, and I understand that NC's schedule strength is a concern. I just think that in terms of judging a QB, the ACC is competitive enough to do so even if they have less top 25 ranked teams than the bigger conferences. Alabama and OSU have 2 of the premiere college football programs. How many of their QB's are starting in the NFL? I'm just saying it's not as simple as looking at W/L or quality of opponents. Just look at Russel Wilson's stats against quality opponents when he was at NC State. More terrible than good there. Other than his great season with Wisconsin, he looked like a middling QB at NC State, which arguably had lower quality opponents. Please. There's no way to discount Wilson's final year, at Wisconsin, which was capped by a phenomenal game in the Rose Bowl. Trubisky's thin body of work, which came against generally mediocre opponents, is definitely a concern: 6-5 against Division 1 opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Russell Wilson and Dak Prescott also both came into the league as at least 3 year starters... The is the SINGLE most important factor weighing against Trubisky. He needs to find himself in a situation where he can red shirt a year or two. What QB desperate teams and their fan bases will have the patience for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just in Atlanta Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 This either or argument makes no sense. Why can't we draft high for a QB (like Mitch if he's a fit) AND keep Tyrod? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr8billsfan Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Let TT walk, 30th in the NFL for passing wasn't all his fault, because we lack WRs, but he still has accuracy issues like no other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 This either or argument makes no sense. Why can't we draft high for a QB (like Mitch if he's a fit) AND keep Tyrod? I get this, but in the team's eyes, it may be as simple as preferring to use TT's cap dollars elsewhere. As cap friendly as his deal is for QBs, we have a significant number of free agents and I think McDermott wants to retain some of them as well as shore up positions in free agency. In an ideal world, we'd keep TT, draft the prospect, and roll the dice but there are other considerations and if TT doesn't restructure I think it may be a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Please. There's no way to discount Wilson's final year, at Wisconsin, which was capped by a phenomenal game in the Rose Bowl. Trubisky's thin body of work, which came against generally mediocre opponents, is definitely a concern: 6-5 against Division 1 opponents. Who the hell is discounting his final season at Wisconsin??? It was the best football decision Wilson ever made as it got to really show his potential. No way the guy gets drafted 3rd round without that Wisconsin season. What I am saying ignore his final season at Wisconsin and look at his career at NC State and how poorly he played against "quality" opponents. Reduces the weight of quality/ranked opponents IMO. At NC, Trubisky backed up Marquise Williams, a 4 year starter and currently with the Green Bay Packers. NC played 5 ranked opponents in 2016, which I don't think is that bad. I just don't think you put that much weight on schedule, the ACC is tough enough to judge and NC does not recruit the same quality of talent as Clemson, FSU, SEC, PAC and Big 10 top teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Who the hell is discounting his final season at Wisconsin??? It was the best football decision Wilson ever made as it got to really show his potential. No way the guy gets drafted 3rd round without that Wisconsin season. What I am saying ignore his final season at Wisconsin and look at his career at NC State and how poorly he played against "quality" opponents. Reduces the weight of quality/ranked opponents IMO. At NC, Trubisky backed up Marquise Williams, a 4 year starter and currently with the Green Bay Packers. NC played 5 ranked opponents in 2016, which I don't think is that bad. I just don't think you put that much weight on schedule, the ACC is tough enough to judge and NC does not recruit the same quality of talent as Clemson, FSU, SEC, PAC and Big 10 top teams. He was stuck behind a UDFA who got cut in September 2016 and isn't currently on any NFL team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryPinC Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 He was stuck behind a UDFA who got cut in September 2016 and isn't currently on any NFL team. Thanks, my source was out of date. Williams was a pretty good quarterback for NC though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 Thanks, my source was out of date. Williams was a pretty good quarterback for NC though. Certainly a good college QB, numbers-wise. Just hard to imagine a Top 10 NFL talent not unseating him. Maybe that's on the coach though, just like the coach at NC State who sent Russ Wilson packing for his senior year because he wanted to play baseball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) I get this, but in the team's eyes, it may be as simple as preferring to use TT's cap dollars elsewhere. As cap friendly as his deal is for QBs, we have a significant number of free agents and I think McDermott wants to retain some of them as well as shore up positions in free agency. In an ideal world, we'd keep TT, draft the prospect, and roll the dice but there are other considerations and if TT doesn't restructure I think it may be a moot point. As I mentioned in another thread........the Bills cap issues are really overstated. It's temporary and very manageable.........saving a $3M-$5M on Taylor's cap number this year is possible but they have much easier ways to get another $20M in cap space without leaving themselves naked at QB. To my point about the tight cap being temporary........if they simply pick up Taylor's option they are slated to have about $70M in cap room in 2018 at this point. It would take a mad FA frenzy to make much of a dent in that........and if they don't pick up Taylor and cut a few more of the elderly they could have an unmanageable $100M in cap room 12 months from now. Edited February 15, 2017 by #BADOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted February 15, 2017 Share Posted February 15, 2017 As I mentioned in another thread........the Bills cap issues are really overstated. It's temporary and very manageable.........saving a $3M-$5M on Taylor's cap number this year is possible but they have much easier ways to get another $20M in cap space without leaving themselves naked at QB. To my point about the tight cap being temporary........if they simply pick up Taylor's option they are slated to have about $70M in cap room in 2018 at this point. It would take a mad FA frenzy to make much of a dent in that........and if they don't pick up Taylor and cut a few more of the elderly they could have an unmanageable $100M in cap room 12 months from now. All good points to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) Give em hell Taylor ! http://youtube.com/watch?v=MIAuac3WdrQ&feature=onebox Give it up dude. I already said you're right. EJ Manuel is great. Tyrod sucks. And you're right too, Kumquats are more delicious than radishes. Can't blame you for trying to switch the argument, though. The main one you're working on sure doesn't look like a winner. I didn't switch anything. My point is this guy has no idea about anything. The fact that he liked Geno Smith, EJ Smith and Tyler Wilson says enough. Now Trubisky? Really. Don't quit your day job. Edited February 16, 2017 by QuoteTheRaven83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts