simpleman Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Am I reading it right to say that if the Bills release him before the 4th day of the NFL 2017 season, and he is not a member of the 90 man roster on that day, there is no guarantee ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 30, 2016 Author Share Posted December 30, 2016 Am I reading it right to say that if the Bills release him before the 4th day of the NFL 2017 season, and he is not a member of the 90 man roster on that day, there is no guarantee ? No that has to do after they pick the option up and the reduction of the INJ guarantee down to 12M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpleman Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 No that has to do after they pick the option up and the reduction of the INJ guarantee down to 12M Lawyers out there. Is the fact that the exception is included along with the guarantee reduction paragraph, rather than in a separate paragraph by itself make it apply only to the reduction. Even though it states it refers to paragrah 5 clause in the actual text? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 30, 2016 Author Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) Lawyers out there. Is the fact that the exception is included along with the guarantee reduction paragraph, rather than in a separate paragraph by itself make it apply only to the reduction. Even though it states it refers to paragrah 5 clause in the actual text?If the option is picked up 15.5M has been paid leaving 12M base salary of 2018 to account for so that is the reduction and why it referenced the 90 man roster. So in essence protecting the 12M base. However that does bring into question that everyone including myself has thought that picking up the option Fully guarantees the 2017 base contract. That paragraph seems to me that it is guaranteed for INJ only after the option is picked up. Because if it was a FULL guarantee like everyone has said no need for that paragraph unless it is an INJ only guarantee Edited December 30, 2016 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 The Bills doctors just have to say he's healthy. But that doesn't mean their credibility can't be contested. As I said in the other thread where you already discussed all of this.........it's hardly a coincidence that Taylor is rushing for an opinion on his "sports hernia" right now. Does a player named Kolby Listenbee ring a bell? Played his senior season, ran a 4.39 at the combine.......drafted by Bills.....presumably examined by Bills doctors.....then has surgery for "sports hernia"......and turns out there was another undiagnosed issue all along and he missed THE ENTIRE SEASON after playing all of 2015. As I said.......this is the only bullet that Tyrod's agent has in his gun to prevent being left high and dry on the option........so they are putting it in the chamber. Will they be able to get the money guaranteed? Unlikely....but if Tyrod's doctors and the Bills doctors see it differently the Bills doctors credibility could be contested based on their past experience. That possibility at least leaves potential settlement negotiation room for Taylor's agent should the Bills decide to move on from Tyrod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 30, 2016 Author Share Posted December 30, 2016 The Bills doctors just have to say he's healthy. But that doesn't mean their credibility can't be contested. As I said in the other thread where you already discussed all of this.........it's hardly a coincidence that Taylor is rushing for an opinion on his "sports hernia" right now. Does a player named Kolby Listenbee ring a bell? Played his senior season, ran a 4.39 at the combine.......drafted by Bills.....presumably examined by Bills doctors.....then has surgery for "sports hernia"......and turns out there was another undiagnosed issue all along and he missed THE ENTIRE SEASON after playing all of 2015. As I said.......this is the only bullet that Tyrod's agent has in his gun to prevent being left high and dry on the option........so they are putting it in the chamber. Will they be able to get the money guaranteed? Unlikely....but if Tyrod's doctors and the Bills doctors see it differently the Bills doctors credibility could be contested based on their past experience. That possibility at least leaves potential settlement negotiation room for Taylor's agent should the Bills decide to move on from Tyrod. I get that but also player and agent have to tread just as lightly here. They agreed to the clause allowing Bills to have the sole say with no ability for second opinion. Also they could hurt their future market with other teams if they try and push it as it is very clear in the contract its not some vague lanuage where interpretation matters. Pretty clear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 I get that but also player and agent have to tread just as lightly here. They agreed to the clause allowing Bills to have the sole say with no ability for second opinion. Also they could hurt their future market with other teams if they try and push it as it is very clear in the contract its not some vague lanuage where interpretation matters. Pretty clear 1)They did agree....but this was before the Listenbee error was exposed late this season. 2) Yes, that is why there is an urgency. Anything they want to get done they want to get done BEFORE the option is due. I see this as just an attempt to secure a settlement if necessary. As I said......I still think that Taylor will be the QB next year. If you are a HC candidate Whaley is probably toxic right now.......the Bills will probably have to go with Lynn and Whaley and Lynn will have a short leash so there is no time for re-starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 30, 2016 Author Share Posted December 30, 2016 1)They did agree....but this was before the Listenbee error was exposed late this season. 2) Yes, that is why there is an urgency. Anything they want to get done they want to get done BEFORE the option is due. I see this as just an attempt to secure a settlement if necessary. As I said......I still think that Taylor will be the QB next year. If you are a HC candidate Whaley is probably toxic right now.......the Bills will probably have to go with Lynn and Whaley and Lynn will have a short leash so there is no time for re-starts. Buddy that works in W coast organization thinks this Lynn will be HC QB depth chart will look like Tyrod, Watson, Cardale And also thinks if Bills can improve the defense slightly they will be in playoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 The Bills doctors just have to say he's healthy. But that doesn't mean their credibility can't be contested. As I said in the other thread where you already discussed all of this.........it's hardly a coincidence that Taylor is rushing for an opinion on his "sports hernia" right now. Does a player named Kolby Listenbee ring a bell? Played his senior season, ran a 4.39 at the combine.......drafted by Bills.....presumably examined by Bills doctors.....then has surgery for "sports hernia"......and turns out there was another undiagnosed issue all along and he missed THE ENTIRE SEASON after playing all of 2015. As I said.......this is the only bullet that Tyrod's agent has in his gun to prevent being left high and dry on the option........so they are putting it in the chamber. Will they be able to get the money guaranteed? Unlikely....but if Tyrod's doctors and the Bills doctors see it differently the Bills doctors credibility could be contested based on their past experience. That possibility at least leaves potential settlement negotiation room for Taylor's agent should the Bills decide to move on from Tyrod. High and dry?? Two words: free agency! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuco Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) I get that but also player and agent have to tread just as lightly here. They agreed to the clause allowing Bills to have the sole say with no ability for second opinion. Also they could hurt their future market with other teams if they try and push it as it is very clear in the contract its not some vague lanuage where interpretation matters. Pretty clear Taken by itself it looks to be very clear. But keep in mind the whole paragraph is precluded by "Not withstanding any language to the contrary in this Contract but subject to the terms and conditions of this section . . . " -- These kinds of introductory sentences are common in all contracts and usually point to some other area where other things are written that often make the meaning of the rest of the paragraph less clear (without being able to see the other sections). Additionally, all NFL contracts are drawn from a standard form that includes a paragraph that describes the player's right to injury grievance if terminated while injured (including second opinions and appealing the team physician's opinion), as well as language in the CBA regarding the same thing - and the CBA supercedes all contract language. While there are provisions in the CBA and in the standard contract that allow for certain changes from the standard contract form (they all start with a clause using the "notwithstanding" phrase too, LOL), I personally find it hard to believe this one sentence we're being shown is enough to overrule all those other provisions. I tend to believe it's written this way knowing full well the player has the right to a second opinion and an appeal, rather than redundantly specify all that information all over again. Basically saying, if our doc says you're fit you're fit - and there's no reason for us to further specify that you can disagree and appeal because all that is already included in the CBA and the standard part of the contract. But I have been wrong before. EDIT: I'd like to add writing it this way also allows for a definite time line. The doc says he's fit, contract voided. Now it's up to the player to appeal. But writing it saying the player has the rights to a second opinion, etc. before he can be terminated could drag the process of actually cutting TT well beyond the trigger date. And that would add a whole extra layer of cloudiness in the event they do cut him and he says he's injured. Edited December 30, 2016 by Tuco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Buddy that works in W coast organization thinks this Lynn will be HC QB depth chart will look like Tyrod, Watson, Cardale And also thinks if Bills can improve the defense slightly they will be in playoffs I've envisioned the same scenario. Not really that appealing for a first year HC though. The Bills talent level is in decline a bit......they peaked in Rex first season.....so even if you come in and have a good first year as a HC it's easy to conceive that success might be short lived. And as far as HC's go......decent opening acts followed by diminishing returns don't go over well. This team has a very Gregg Williams-last-year feel to it.......they have been badly underachieving for various reasons(poor coaching/injury) for at least a couple years......a kick in the pants could get them into the playoffs.......but the overall talent level is in decline and it will take some pretty clever drafting and free agency moves to reverse that trend. A better job is coming into a mid-range rebuild with a franchise QB prospect and improving and staying there. The Rams job offers that promise if you like Goff. The Jags job MIGHT if you think you can fix Bortles......they are a very young roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Yep. He did answer question "Yes you can still use the post June 1 designation on the dead money" Yep once I am out of Army I am Hoping like heck i can land one of these type of jobs. Would love to be around the inner workings of a NFL FO Other Buddy (works in scouting) "Jesus D1 it is early over here on W. Coast. Money accelerates unless you use June 1. Have your GM call our GM we will talk trade if your team is idiots enough to let him walk." Bobby We didnt agree on a lot of things during the season but you totally have my respect. I really appreciate the extra work you do when you present your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Buddy that works in W coast organization thinks this Lynn will be HC QB depth chart will look like Tyrod, Watson, Cardale And also thinks if Bills can improve the defense slightly they will be in playoffs Who the heck is Watson? Just curious, does your buddy agree that Whaley is "toxic" to HC candidates right now? My impression is: it might put off the "big name" guys who want personnel control or at least a say and who have their pick of jobs. But when all is said and done, there are only 32 of these jobs in the world Most coordinators/previous HC are going to at least want to talk about the job - maybe they have questions they want answered about what really went down or all the leaks etc, what are the Bills real intentions with Tyrod etc. But they're not going to let it keep them away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Who the heck is Watson? Just curious, does your buddy agree that Whaley is "toxic" to HC candidates right now? My impression is: it might put off the "big name" guys who want personnel control or at least a say and who have their pick of jobs. But when all is said and done, there are only 32 of these jobs in the world Most coordinators/previous HC are going to at least want to talk about the job - maybe they have questions they want answered about what really went down or all the leaks etc, what are the Bills real intentions with Tyrod etc. But they're not going to let it keep them away Deshaun Watson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 I've envisioned the same scenario. Not really that appealing for a first year HC though. The Bills talent level is in decline a bit......they peaked in Rex first season.....so even if you come in and have a good first year as a HC it's easy to conceive that success might be short lived. And as far as HC's go......decent opening acts followed by diminishing returns don't go over well. This team has a very Gregg Williams-last-year feel to it.......they have been badly underachieving for various reasons(poor coaching/injury) for at least a couple years......a kick in the pants could get them into the playoffs.......but the overall talent level is in decline and it will take some pretty clever drafting and free agency moves to reverse that trend. A better job is coming into a mid-range rebuild with a franchise QB prospect and improving and staying there. The Rams job offers that promise if you like Goff. The Jags job MIGHT if you think you can fix Bortles......they are a very young roster. It seems to me that whether or not the Bills talent level is in decline depends a lot on how Lawson and Ragland and Washington work out for whomever is next year's DC. Deshaun Watson Would it be a correct assumption this is the year's hot draft choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 (edited) It seems to me that whether or not the Bills talent level is in decline depends a lot on how Lawson and Ragland and Washington work out for whomever is next year's DC. Would it be a correct assumption this is the year's hot draft choice? And which and how many of a couple dozen FA's they have come back. The WR corps could be truly hurting. And how much KW, Wood, RI, Clay, Felton and McCoy have left. In 2018 I expect all of them to be gone or greatly diminished. If you have a good system you can get production from guys like Groy..........well, I don't really have a whole lot of others......depth is an issue and that is a bad sign. I'm not saying they are about to fall off the cliff but it's hard to say they aren't getting more gifted. And when you have unproductive QB play it makes most of the team look bad. Been there, done that. Edited December 31, 2016 by #BADOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Would it be a correct assumption this is the year's hot draft choice? I think that is fair. I think that he ends up as the 1st QB taken. He is certainly the most accomplished in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Thanks for digging up and posting the info in this thread, Bobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 I think that is fair. I think that he ends up as the 1st QB taken. He is certainly the most accomplished in the draft. Oh Lordy so if we have a shot at him it would mean this is another poor QB class and most everyone is staying away, so we'll draft the first QB? Shades of 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Oh Lordy so if we have a shot at him it would mean this is another poor QB class and most everyone is staying away, so we'll draft the first QB? Shades of 2013 It is better than 2013 but it isn't good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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