DC Tom Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, sherpa said: Making stuff up? Let's start with the second lie, which is that I have ever supported Trump. Never have, and that has nothing to do with Iran. What I have done is fly off a carrier in that area, did my first, (and only), hostile intercept locking up an Iranian P3 with my sidewinder, and threatened to kill him if he opened any weapons doors, became extremely familiar with Iranian air defense, toasted a friend of mine who dropped a 500 lb laser guided bomb down the stack of the Sabalan, leaving it burning, but choosing not to sink it, have followed this situation closely for years, and kind of know what's going on. I am quite confident I am not "making stuff up," and equally confident that if the US decide to take out Iran's nuclear bomb plan, how it will go. You took part in Praying Mantis? I'd suggest that Iranian air defense in 2019 isn't quite the same as it was in 1988. But I'd also suggest that we'd take their AD system apart very quickly. In fact, I'd suggest that would be the strongest acceptable military response to this drone shoot-down: take their air defense system apart at the seams. Nothing else, just degrade their capability to the degree that they know they're vulnerable to follow-on strikes if they try anything else. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedge Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 I thought the reason we had drones was because they didn't risk American lives and if one got shot down, so what. Starting a war over a flying computer would be really dumb. Can't yall see they're trying to get us to jump in? Why help them? Don't give them what they want. Again, no Americans were killed. I hope Trump is smarter than this. Have they found those WMDs yet? Is communism still spreading over the far east? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 19 minutes ago, DC Tom said: You took part in Praying Mantis? I'd suggest that Iranian air defense in 2019 isn't quite the same as it was in 1988. But I'd also suggest that we'd take their AD system apart very quickly. In fact, I'd suggest that would be the strongest acceptable military response to this drone shoot-down: take their air defense system apart at the seams. Nothing else, just degrade their capability to the degree that they know they're vulnerable to follow-on strikes if they try anything else. Lots of stuff here. No I did not fly during Praying Mantis. The guy who stuck the LGB down Sabalan's stack was a dept head in my squadron and good friend of mine-still is by the way. He stayed in and dropped the thing as CO of his squadron on Enterprise. My old squadron. You are quite correct in the difference in the Iranian air defense system now vs. when I was doing this stuff. It was US built I-Hawk at that time, and is now Russian and a newer generation. A big problem, but we could handle it. That isn't how it will probably play out though. There are two scenarios, one, which I think is likely and was foreshadowed by Trump today, in a small comment regarding a rogue element of the Iranian military, is that the US thinks that the Iranian Revolutionary Guard is on their own on this, and that's what I think the response will target. The other issue is the known mission of taking out the nuclear capability, and that, I'm certain, involves a massive bunker buster strike at a few locations that are underground. That involves the full capability of US air power, with a huge jamming component to deal with the air defense system. If the US feels confident they can jam the air defense, or get through it by stealth, they will not need to take it out, they will simply strike the underground facilities. If they don't think they can do that, they will take out out, but that will take a few days. I don't think we're there yet. What I think is that if any Iranian combatant does anything that is remotely aggressive, like those stupid small boats that they run in and near the Strait of Hormuz, and they have in the past without response, they will be destroyed with immense response designed to send a message. Not simply the guns from a destroyer taking out the belligerent alone, but maybe the boat dealt with by a US combatant, a but its harbor and sister ships eliminated with an air strike. 24 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: I thought the reason we had drones was because they didn't risk American lives and if one got shot down, so what. Starting a war over a flying computer would be really dumb. Can't yall see they're trying to get us to jump in? Why help them? Don't give them what they want. Again, no Americans were killed. I hope Trump is smarter than this. Have they found those WMDs yet? Is communism still spreading over the far east? Because the right of free navigation in international waters and international airspace must be protected. Don't need to "start a war." Need to defend the right. The Strait of Hormuz and adjacent waters are extremely important, and need to be defended as international water/airspace. 3 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 1 hour ago, reddogblitz said: I thought the reason we had drones was because they didn't risk American lives and if one got shot down, so what. Starting a war over a flying computer would be really dumb. Can't yall see they're trying to get us to jump in? Why help them? Don't give them what they want. Again, no Americans were killed. I hope Trump is smarter than this. Have they found those WMDs yet? Is communism still spreading over the far east? Iran has to pay a price for their nonsense. No retaliation will only encourage them to do more. Whatever they do, we gave back to them plus some, and in a way that will hurt them. If I worked in a refinery in Iran, I might call in sick for the next week. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realtruelove Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 This is THE FALSE FLAG we have been speaking of. What better way to derail boomerang. Trump better wake up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 1 hour ago, sherpa said: Because the right of free navigation in international waters and international airspace must be protected. Don't need to "start a war." Need to defend the right. The Strait of Hormuz and adjacent waters are extremely important, and need to be defended as international water/airspace. This, exactly. We've done it before, both with Iran and other countries. We're actually pretty good at this sort of limited action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 15 minutes ago, realtruelove said: This is THE FALSE FLAG we have been speaking of. What better way to derail boomerang. Trump better wake up. No worries there (yet), for me. If he were going to fall for that kind of bait, he wouldn't have given the regime the wiggle room he did today. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, DC Tom said: This, exactly. We've done it before, both with Iran and other countries. We're actually pretty good at this sort of limited action. please explain our success with "limited action"? Serious question. When has it ever worked? How do we measure success in "limited action"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realtruelove Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Strike their nuclear enrichment facility, get samples and compare it to Uranium One samples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) Give the Israeli Air Force a Hall pass to run a few errands Edited June 21, 2019 by row_33 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedge Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) It's either true, part true, or not true at all. *shrug* -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From the guy who admitted to live tweeting closed door testimony: Edited June 21, 2019 by Hedge 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, sherpa said: Seriously Tibs, you suffer from gross reality distortion, based on an out of control political bias. Iran has never stopped it's nuclear weapons program because of some "skilled" US administration, and it never will. Iran is a very bad actor, responsible for many, many US deaths, plays brinkmanship games with its Iranian Revolutionary Guard, and gets is ass kicked every time its Navy gets aggressive. This shootdown will not prove to be a plus for them. Had this been a manned airplane, there wouldn't be an Iranian ship above the water line today. I mean nothing you said here is remotely factual. I'm not happy with the drone getting shot down, but I'm also not ignorant enough to think it was definitely in international skies. I'm not a defender of Iran or the plan. I also think completely alienating them is looking for trouble. And I'll tell all you old dudes this, you aren't going to catch me in the desert dying over some meaningless war. You can go get your old ass off the couch and fight if you want. Vet or not, I don't care. This all is wholly unneeded and created by both governments. ***** that *****. 7 hours ago, row_33 said: Give the Israeli Air Force a Hall pass to run a few errands Yea... it's that simple... Edited June 21, 2019 by Ol Dirty B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 12 hours ago, sherpa said: I hope it blows over as well, but it is a clear act of war, and some response is required. Doesn't have to be military, but you simply can't allow shootdowns in international airspace. Do we actually know it was international airspace? They already botched and lost any credibility with the tanker claims. You guys do realize we are becoming a joke right? It started in 03 and has only continued to decline. Almost every decision made has been wrong. No one likes that we backed out of the Iran deal. 13 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: You want him to be blackmailed by Iran, that is what would make him strong in your eyes? You really are deranged if you can actually explain this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 5 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said: Do we actually know it was international airspace? Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 1 minute ago, sherpa said: Yep. No. We don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said: No. We don't. I'm impressed with your ability to form such strong opinions without quoting any facts. Just think what you could actually do with a smidgeon of knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ol Dirty B Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: I'm impressed with your ability to form such strong opinions without quoting any facts. Just think what you could actually do with a smidgeon of knowledge. Lol what facts have you stated? I know that we said it was over the strait of hormuz, I know that Iran said that it was over their airspace. I know what I don't know, unlike you. We don't know if it was in international skies That's all I said. Clown. Edited June 21, 2019 by Ol Dirty B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 52 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said: Lol what facts have you stated? I know that we said it was over the strait of hormuz, I know that Iran said that it was over their airspace. I know what I don't know, unlike you. We don't know if it was in international skies That's all I said. Clown. What is the purpose and capabilities of the PQ-4 Global Hawk? What type of surveillance was it designed to perform? Is it the ideal drone to send over another country's air space? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said: Lol what facts have you stated? I know that we said it was over the strait of hormuz, I know that Iran said that it was over their airspace. I know what I don't know, unlike you. We don't know if it was in international skies That's all I said. Clown. Speaking of, care to refute Sherp’s facts since you called him out on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts