CommonCents Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 As much as I despise the team that consistently wins the AFC East, they turned it around as an organization when they brought in Parcells as coach in 1993 followed by Kraft purchasing the team in 1994. Those of us who live(d) in the Boston area at the time will remember the dysfunction that existed in that organization prior to that time. Kraft brought in new people to run the front office, had a bit of luck along the way (i.e. Marcia) and here we are today. If your going to use them as an example I would remind you to mention Bledsoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 How many 1st, 2nd or 3rd round picks have the Bills used over past 20 years on the most important position in team sports ? How many successful GM's have the Bills had in the past 20 years ? How many successful HC's have the Bills had in the past 20 years ? EDIT (with answers): Most important position in team sports and no franchise QB: they've used 3 picks in first 3 rounds over 20 years !! --- criminal Not one successful GM (0 for 5), not one successful HC (0 for 7) over past 17 years Keep defending Keep tolerating mediocrity Keep Brandon What a !@#$ing joke ! Thank you for this response; it might have saved my sanity! You get what you deserve and boy are we getting it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 How many 1st, 2nd or 3rd round picks have the Bills used over past 20 years on the most important position in team sports ? How many successful GM's have the Bills had in the past 20 years ? How many successful HC's have the Bills had in the past 20 years ? EDIT (with answers): Most important position in team sports and no franchise QB: they've used 3 picks in first 3 rounds over 20 years !! --- criminal Not one successful GM (0 for 5), not one successful HC (0 for 7) over past 17 years Keep defending Keep tolerating mediocrity Keep Brandon What a !@#$ing joke ! I'd go back to 1995. By my count, they've spent top-three round picks on 6 QBs - Todd Collins, Rob Johnson (effectively), Drew Bledsoe (again, effectively), JP Losman, Trent Edwards, and EJ Manuel. (Plus a 4th on Cardale Jones.) The bigger issue is that none have been any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXBILLSFAN Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 I'd go back to 1995. By my count, they've spent top-three round picks on 6 QBs - Todd Collins, Rob Johnson (effectively), Drew Bledsoe (again, effectively), JP Losman, Trent Edwards, and EJ Manuel. (Plus a 4th on Cardale Jones.) The bigger issue is that none have been any good. A distinction without a difference. In the last 12 drafts, only EJ was selected in the first TWO rounds. We complain about not having a franchise QB, but show me the urgency and commitment this Brandon led organization has had for this position ?? Criminal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haslett_Stomp Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 As much as I despise the team that consistently wins the AFC East, they turned it around as an organization when they brought in Parcells as coach in 1993 followed by Kraft purchasing the team in 1994. Those of us who live(d) in the Boston area at the time will remember the dysfunction that existed in that organization prior to that time. Kraft brought in new people to run the front office, had a bit of luck along the way (i.e. Marcia) and here we are today. If your going to use them as an example I would remind you to mention Bledsoe. Excellent point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 A distinction without a difference. In the last 12 drafts, only EJ was selected in the first TWO rounds. We complain about not having a franchise QB, but show me the urgency and commitment this Brandon led organization has had for this position ?? Criminal Great point. Everyone points to bad luck at the QB position, but sometimes you have to make your own luck. Things don't happen if you don't even give them a chance to. Not drafting at the QB position is an example. I could however make the argument against the picks needing to be in the first round. We've hardly drafted QBs at all, even beyond the first round. In a couple drafts where QB was still a need some good ones where found in the second and third rounds as well. We drafted no one. Add the fact that Manuel was a guy with limits who we reached for, you get what we have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 A distinction without a difference. In the last 12 drafts, only EJ was selected in the first TWO rounds. We complain about not having a franchise QB, but show me the urgency and commitment this Brandon led organization has had for this position ?? Criminal It really is, the most important position has been entirely overlooked for 2 decades. Any person with any level of authority needs to be jettisoned for gross incompetence; it surely isn't a simple oversight, especially as the rules of the game changed to favor passing offenses. Getting rid of Ryan is an easy way to hit the rest button on the entire franchise; he should have did it when he bought it, but I can accept the fact that we had a good defense and they wanted to try to tweak the offense to get over the hump. It didn't work, over the past 5 years we were what 5th (?) in total money paid out in contracts and we are a mediocre/average team. Those players are aging and we have a ton of holes to fill this next year, maintaining continuity in the FO changes nothing, same decision makers making the same type of decisions. Most have been around long enough with all of the trash coaches we have had as well. A smart owner torches it now and starts fresh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 A distinction without a difference. In the last 12 drafts, only EJ was selected in the first TWO rounds. We complain about not having a franchise QB, but show me the urgency and commitment this Brandon led organization has had for this position ?? Criminal I don't disagree. There have been a couple of unorthodox stabs, however, and I think it's worth mentioning. They gave up a ton for Rob Johnson. If memory serves, the Jags got Fred Taylor with that pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 How many 1st, 2nd or 3rd round picks have the Bills used over past 20 years on the most important position in team sports ? How many successful GM's have the Bills had in the past 20 years ? How many successful HC's have the Bills had in the past 20 years ? EDIT (with answers): Most important position in team sports and no franchise QB: they've used 3 picks in first 3 rounds over 20 years !! --- criminal Not one successful GM (0 for 5), not one successful HC (0 for 7) over past 17 years Keep defending Keep tolerating mediocrity Keep Brandon What a !@#$ing joke ! WORD. Anyone who defends this franchise at this point needs medication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 They gave up a ton for Rob Johnson. If memory serves, the Jags got Fred Taylor with that pick. They did indeed get Taylor with that pick... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 WORD. Anyone who defends this franchise at this point needs medication. Back at you, some get it! How can you not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jms62 Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 I think this is the most unified these boards have been ever on this issue. Time to hit CNTL-ALT-Delete on this organization Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBills Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 If you look at ANY team that has turned around a consistent losing stretch, they have brought in a strong football guy to steward the operation. Patriots - Parcells, continued by Belichek Jets - Parcells, slow decline since then Seahawks - Holmgren, continued by Carroll Colts - Polian Falcons - Dan Reeves Cardinals - Whisenhunt/basically raided Bill Cowher's Steelers staff. Sorry, we have reached a point where small fixes and tweaks will not suffice. Major changes need to take place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsForever Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 (edited) BILLS RUN DEEP Sincerely, Russ Brandon President and managing partner of Pegula Sports Entertainment Edited December 12, 2016 by BuffaloBillsForever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Brandon is the "President" of the Bills franchise. So of course he's involved. The open question is how involved is he in football decisions? Or, to say it differently, how much blame does he bear? Without more information than TG presented, I'd hesitate to share an opinion. But we can see from the product on the field that something's going wrong. The Bills aren't terrible, they just aren't good. And those two observations worry me because average, middle-of-the-pack performances usually don't cost a guy his job or bring about dramatic change. Looking at the roster, Whaley hasn't done a terrible job. But he's clearly not a top echelon GM. Looking at the team's W-L record, Rex isn't doing a terrible job. But he's no Bill Belichick. Looking at his on field performance and passer rating, TT isn't terrible. But he's no Tom Brady. Are any of these guys so bad they should be replaced? Well, if the Super Bowl is our goal, then maybe all of them need to go because none of them are producing at the Super Bowl level. Not only are they not producing at the Superbowl level, they are not performing at the "make the playoffs" level. In a weird year with a lot of luck, our absolute ceiling is that team that makes the playoffs as a wild card, and is beaten in that first game. That's as good as it's going to get until this thing is stripped clean and rebuilt in the image of the best organizations in sports. I'd try to copy the St. Louis Cardinals, Steelers, Patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Not only are they not producing at the Superbowl level, they are not performing at the "make the playoffs" level. In a weird year with a lot of luck, our absolute ceiling is that team that makes the playoffs as a wild card, and is beaten in that first game. That's as good as it's going to get until this thing is stripped clean and rebuilt in the image of the best organizations in sports. I'd try to copy the St. Louis Cardinals, Steelers, Patriots. I have even recessed from that "goal". I just want the team to stay in it (legitimately) into the last week or 2. A few meaningful late season games. Can't even get to that point. Completely agree with looking at the best organizations in sports and trying to emulate their structure and management. The same goes with the Sabres too, where Pegula has also failed to do this. There has been a lot of dysfunction since the Pegulas bought the team. The Bills need a factory reset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 (edited) Not only are they not producing at the Superbowl level, they are not performing at the "make the playoffs" level. In a weird year with a lot of luck, our absolute ceiling is that team that makes the playoffs as a wild card, and is beaten in that first game. That's as good as it's going to get until this thing is stripped clean and rebuilt in the image of the best organizations in sports. I'd try to copy the St. Louis Cardinals, Steelers, Patriots. We've tried to copy the Steelers since we hired Donahoe; I'm over that. Let's not copy anyone and just find good football people and try to be ourselves... BTW as a franchise our goal was to make the playoffs. Goal should always be to win the whole damn thing... Edited December 12, 2016 by Reed83HOF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 I don't disagree. There have been a couple of unorthodox stabs, however, and I think it's worth mentioning. They gave up a ton for Rob Johnson. If memory serves, the Jags got Fred Taylor with that pick.Yes and a 4th round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Completely agree with looking at the best organizations in sports and trying to emulate their structure and management. The same goes with the Sabres too, where Pegula has also failed to do this. There has been a lot of dysfunction since the Pegulas bought the team. The Bills need a factory reset The Sabres are copying the exact format of Stanley Cup winners from the last several years...not sure what you're talking about there.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 (edited) The Sabres are copying the exact format of Stanley Cup winners from the last several years...not sure what you're talking about there.. Pegula started off with the same errors. Throwing money at bad management. This didn't fix problems, but magnified them (sounds familiar). Did the same things like blaming injuries. Blew up into the need to completely 'tank' They had the right idea with LaFontaine. His philosophy was right on. Also brought on Craig Patrick as a consultant. LaFontaine brought in who looks like a pretty good GM prospect in Murray. Meanwhile, there was apparently some sort of struggle between "Pegula's guys" and LaFontaine. LaFontaine left in what appeared to be a 1-day mysterious blowup. Batista eventually walks away. Ted Black (who was doing a great job from my view of a fan) has been removed for Russ Brandon (fan experience has been diminished). Craig Patrick was not retained. So after the mess shakes out, we have Tim Murray standing alone as GM. Not sure how I feel about that. He seems like a good scout (even though we are yet to see any fruits of that)... but seems to lack interpersonal skills. Has made some trades that do not look so good and has burned through a lot of assets. The farm team stinks and is barren. Things havent really stopped churning in management for almost 6 years now, and I suspect we aren't even at the "stopping point. I cannot fathom why someone who is in the process of buying a pro sports team would not have someone lined up to install directly underneath ownership. Especially in the case of the Bills and Sabres. The Sabres IMO still do not seem even-keeled or well-oiled. Toronto did it the right way and appear to be surpassing the Sabres, even when they started the process well after. There is a whole lot more to what Pittsburgh, LA, and Chicago have done than "get a top pick". The thing that really scares me, is if Murray doesnt pan out at GM... we are going to have Pegula and Brandon looking for a Sabres GM. Edited December 12, 2016 by May Day 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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