Russ Brandon and others...

[fridge]

We all have higher expectations for the on field product. It's ridiculous to assume otherwise.

 

He EXCEEDED expectations for the job he was hired to do in 1997.

 

Again, the conflation is absurd.

 

The only thing absurd is that you keep bringing up 1997. He no longer holds the position he was hired for then.

[White Linen]

 

The only thing absurd is that you keep bringing up 1997. He no longer holds the position he was hired for then.

 

Go read some of your posts in this thread. There's other absurd things.

[stony]

From the Gospel according to pepsicat17, Chapter 23:

 

Then the whole assembly rose and led him off to Pegula. 2 And they began to accuse him, saying, “We have found this man subverting our team. He engages in marketing hoaxes, errs in his football related decisions, and yet claims to only be involved in business operations.”

 

3 So Pegula asked Brandon, “Are you the king of the marketing wonks?”

“You have said so,” Brandon replied.

4 Then Pegula announced to the TBD moderators and the crowd, “I find no basis for a charge against this man.”

5 But they insisted, “He stirs up the people all over Bills Nation by his lying. He started in Florida and has come all the way here.”

6 On hearing this, Pegula asked if the man was a Floridian. 7 When he learned that Brandon was from Syracuse, he sent him to She Who Must Be Obeyed--Kim Pegula--who was also in Orchard Park at that time, having left the family home in Boca.

8 When Kim saw Brandon, she was greatly pleased, because for a long time she had been wanting to see him. From what she had heard about him, she hoped to see him perform a marketing trick of some sort. 9 She plied him with many questions, but Brandon gave her no answer. 10 The forum moderators and many Bills fans were standing there, vehemently accusing him.11 Then Kim and her bodyguards ridiculed and mocked him. Dressing him in a New England Patriots warm up jacket, they sent him back to Pegula. 12 That day Kim and Terry Pegula became business cohorts—before this they had been husband and wife.

13 Pegula called together the forum moderators, the Front Office, and the fans, 14 and said to them, “You brought me this man as one who was inciting the fans to rebellion. I have examined him in your presence and have found no basis for your charges against him. 15 Neither has Kim, for she sent him back to me; as you can see, he has done nothing to deserve dismissal.16 Therefore, I will suspend him.” [17] [a]

18 But the whole crowd shouted, “Away with this man! Re-sign Fred Jackson!”19 (Jackson had been cut from the team due to an insurrection.)

20 Wanting to release Brandon, Pegula appealed to them again. 21 But they kept shouting, “Fire him! Fire him!”

22 For the third time he spoke to them: “Why? What crime has this man committed? I have found in him no grounds for immediate dismissal. Therefore I will have him punished and then return him to the Front Office.”

23 But with loud shouts they insistently demanded that he be fired, and their shouts prevailed. 24 So Pegula decided to grant their demand. 25 He re-signed Fred Jackson, the one they asked for, and surrendered Brandon to their will.

Brilliant.

More please!!

[DriveFor1Outta5]

I don't know what you can grasp and what you can't and I don't really care. I presume I'm better acquainted than you because you openly admit to not caring about the revenue aspect of things, let alone the marketing that entails. That's not ego, it's common sense.

 

I'm sure you can comprehend how teams make money. How about comprehending the nature of wide disparities in the application of revenues to player costs? Is there or is there not an inherent competitive disadvantage when you have to spend 65% of your revenues in that area vs. teams that spend 35%?

 

You hate Brandon. I get that. But your hatred makes you incapable of the least bit of objectivity when it comes to the success he had in the job he was precisely hired to do and especially in the short time available he had to do it back in the late nineties.

 

And I don't "absolve" Russ Brandon of anything. What the phuck does that even mean? He's made some bad decisions and he'll be the first to tell you that. He doesn't need my absolution. But if you refuse to acquaint yourself with widely available facts, that's on you.

So if I understand your posts you believe that Russ had made "some bad decisions" , yet we should keep him around because of stuff he achieved back in the Nineties ? Edited December 7, 2016 by DriveFor1Outta5

[Sisyphean Bills]

So if I understand your posts you believe that Russ had made "some bad decisions" , yet we should keep him around because of stuff he achieved back in the Nineties ?

 

I wasn't going to go here, but. It's not nice to mention that Brandon hired Doug Marrone, was directly involved with the Rex Ryan hire, or took over as GM when Marv Levy bolted. Click your ruby Bills slippers and repeat: "He has nothing to do with football."

 

Get your priorities straight as a fan. Make lots and lots and lots of money. It's easy to be great. Russ is the only one that can do that. All those gold bars that they got the Rodgers group to fork over, the dull thud of them dropping into Ralph's safe deposit box, that is really and truly what it's about. Believe me. That is what a real football fan craves. It's very, very, very good.

[thebandit27]

I feel like this got missed...or willfully ignored...

 

An awful lot of misinformation could easily be corrected if folks just read what the organization has said, consistently, about everyone's roles.

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/How-the-Bills-decided-on-Rex-Ryan-as-head-coach/aa1cc736-b6c4-4af7-bfe9-4aba573bf0fd

 

Just so that folks don't have to make up what happened with regard to Rex (not that I think it'll stop them from doing so)

 

And here's just one of the most-recent Russ-related mega-threads so that we don't have to re-hash the entire thing over and over and over and over:

 

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/188443-is-russ-brandon-to-blame/?hl=brandon

 

And the hierarchy laid out--clear as day--for anyone that's confused:

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-1/Complete-transcript-Rex-Ryans-introduction/56e897fd-f22f-4376-9489-7e84a5b4f0c1

 

RB: One of things, Vic, on that just so we can answer your question so we can put this to bed also: when it comes to the fifty-three and player personnel, thats under the purview of Doug Whaley, the game-day roster and the coaching staff is obviously Coach Ryan and I will have business ops and administration ops and football administration budgets, but as Terry said earlier and as Coach said, its not only one direction, its one mindset and well be in lock-step in everything that we do as an organization.

Also, in case anyone wants to continue to debate his role in personnel:

 

http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/10/bills_sabres_president_russ_brandon_new_role_criticism_unbelievable_year.html

 

Now feel free to carry on with the scapegoating, because only the truth-seekers can tell that this team's failures cannot possibly be as simple as "get a QB".

Edited December 7, 2016 by thebandit27

[The Big Cat]

I feel like this got missed...or willfully ignored...

 

An awful lot of misinformation could easily be corrected if folks just read what the organization has said, consistently, about everyone's roles.

 

 

Also, in case anyone wants to continue to debate his role in personnel:

 

http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/10/bills_sabres_president_russ_brandon_new_role_criticism_unbelievable_year.html

 

Now feel free to carry on with the scapegoating, because only the truth-seekers can tell that this team's failures cannot possibly be as simple as "get a QB".

 

it should also be noted that it's utterly baffling that fans have convinced themselves that the duties and objectives of an organization's PRESIDENT should be completely removed in every way from operations.

Edited December 7, 2016 by The Big Cat

[TSOL]

Just dont call um Rusty

[DriveFor1Outta5]

I feel like this got missed...or willfully ignored...

 

An awful lot of misinformation could easily be corrected if folks just read what the organization has said, consistently, about everyone's roles.

 

 

Also, in case anyone wants to continue to debate his role in personnel:

 

http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/10/bills_sabres_president_russ_brandon_new_role_criticism_unbelievable_year.html

 

Now feel free to carry on with the scapegoating, because only the truth-seekers can tell that this team's failures cannot possibly be as simple as "get a QB".

Yep because newspaper articles and team PR releases definitely tell us the truth on how the team operates. The entire FO needs cleaned out. End of story. It doesn't matter who does what, it simply hasn't worked. Rusty will get another job. We don't need to feel sorry for him.

 

it should also be noted that it's utterly baffling that fans have convinced themselves that the duties and objectives of an organization's PRESIDENT should be completely removed in every way from operations.

He should be removed from operations because he's basically a really good used car salesmen. He has no football credentials. Edited December 7, 2016 by DriveFor1Outta5

[BigPappy]

Seriously, more then any coach or player I feel he is responsible for the almost two decades of futility more then anyone else. We are not a team or organization that is only a player away and we are wasting our best players prime years. What's it gonna take to get him away from the football team and hire the "football czar" that we so desperately need. Coaches, players and schemes come and go and we still lose in the big spots, under the brightest lights and in the moments we need the most. The Pegulas are obviously smart people, if they really looked at our teams in the past decades they would see one constant... Russ. Why is he untouchable? Time to completely rebuild the organization from the ground up. Continuity for continuitys sake is not the answer. The time has come, we proved that today. We need a complete overhaul of the team, coaches and front office. Hell, were not making the playoffs anytime soon with what we have so why prolong the agony. The time is now - time to Make the Bills Great Again!

 

 

(Obviously this is a bit tounge in cheek but really we're just spinning our wheels and I think to make the long lasting, team/organizational defining changes we need, we need to get new blood in the organization at all levels. We just got new owners so what better time then now? We all deserve it as long time BILLS fans and more importantly to the Pegulas, paying customers.)

 

The Short answer to that question is that he makes money for the organization. And lots of it. You don't fire your top sales guy just because he's a d-bag. You may not like him, but you don't get rid of him. I don'y disagree with your thoughts on the matter, but Money is the answer to your question.,

 

A Message to the fans from Russ

 

Don't worry about the troubles our team is facing this season. We're working on Rebranding this thing, market the heck out of it and sell all you suckers on "hope" for next season. We'll move plenty of inventory in the process and the Pegula's will continue to buy my brand of ass kissing. We're going to line up some more commercials for Rex and Rob, Whales will trade up for some player he overvalues in the draft and he and I will be high fiving because we won another draft.

Rebranding, continuity, moving inventory, OneBuffalo, Kelsea Ballerini, Whales. Did I mention I won a World Series ring with the Marlins?

This post here from Jeff proves my point and he is 100% correct. RB is a re branding master. The organization has been selling us manure branding it as gold. We look at it mid season and realize its manure and accept it. What's worse is every year we go back and buy more.

Edited December 7, 2016 by BigPappy

[May Day 10]

 

The Short answer to that question is that he makes money for the organization. And lots of it. You don't fire your top sales guy just because he's a d-bag. You may not like him, but you don't get rid of him. I don'y disagree with your thoughts on the matter, but Money is the answer to your question.,

 

This post here from Jeff proves my point and he is 100% correct. RB is a re branding master. The organization has been selling us manure branding it as gold. We look at it mid season and realize its manure and accept it. What's worse is every year we go back and buy more.

 

What do the Bills do to brand themselves to convince people to buy tickets? They don't convey anything to me that gets me excited or makes me want to buy a ticket. In fact, I have lived in a few other NFL cities and their productions via television ads/shows, billboards, giveaways in Newspapers, etc put anything the Bills do to shame.

 

 

People go to Bills games because it is the NFL, Bills tickets are laughably cheap, and Ralph Wilson Stadium is a lawless and fun atmosphere. It also helps that the team teeters around mediocre. One winning season would accomplish what 50 Russ Brandons could as far as hype and demand go.

Edited December 7, 2016 by May Day 10

[thebandit27]

Yep because newspaper articles and team PR releases definitely tell us the truth on how the team operates. The entire FO needs cleaned out. End of story. It doesn't matter who does what, it simply hasn't worked. Rusty will get another job. We don't need to feel sorry for him.

He should be removed from operations because he's basically a really good used car salesmen. He has no football credentials.

 

They have zero reason to lie about it. None whatsoever.

 

 

The Short answer to that question is that he makes money for the organization. And lots of it. You don't fire your top sales guy just because he's a d-bag. You may not like him, but you don't get rid of him. I don'y disagree with your thoughts on the matter, but Money is the answer to your question.,

 

This post here from Jeff proves my point and he is 100% correct. RB is a re branding master. The organization has been selling us manure branding it as gold. We look at it mid season and realize its manure and accept it. What's worse is every year we go back and buy more.

 

Jeff's post is mere satire and proves nothing.

 

What do you really expect Russ and/or the team to do, come out and say "hey, we're probably going to suck this year"?

 

Whether folks like it or not, what happens on the field is up to Whaley and Rex, and if they aren't getting it done, they need to be shown the door.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

 

What do the Bills do to brand themselves to convince people to buy tickets? They don't convey anything to me that gets me excited or makes me want to buy a ticket. In fact, I have lived in a few other NFL cities and their productions via television ads/shows, billboards, giveaways in Newspapers, etc put anything the Bills do to shame.

 

 

People go to Bills games because it is the NFL, Bills tickets are laughably cheap, and Ralph Wilson Stadium is a lawless and fun atmosphere. It also helps that the team teeters around mediocre. One winning season would accomplish was 50 Russ Brandons could as far as hype and demand go.

Well said. IMO it's almost an insult to Bills fans to give Brandon so much credit for selling tickets. We are the most loyal fans in the league. This team and the city of Buffalo mean more than just football, to many people it's about family and our heritage. It's part of who we are, and where many of us come from. We don't need someone to sell it to us. Corporate deals and other sales are a different matter, but to credit him with selling tickets seems absurd to me. Edited December 7, 2016 by DriveFor1Outta5

[jms62]

Didn't the Bills of early 90's have a record for consecutive Sellouts. Win Games and they will come. Win Games and you will have lines of Corps looking to get into executive seats. Play some meaningful Dec and Jan games and any of us can sell tickets.

[May Day 10]

 

 

Didn't the Bills of early 90's have a record for consecutive Sellouts. Win Games and they will come. Win Games and you will have lines of Corps looking to get into executive seats. Play some meaningful Dec and Jan games and any of us can sell tickets.

 

They had trouble selling cold weather games... but the NFL, ticket markets, and the convenience in which tickets are bought and sold are completely different now.

 

They have zero reason to lie about it. None whatsoever.

 

 

I disagree.

 

The Bills under Ralph Wilson, especially post-Donahoe had a priority in keeping organizational control with Ralph and his inner-circle, while doing all they can to insulate themselves from blame. They have made an art-form of outsourcing blame and it seems to have centered around Brandon in the past decade as Mr. Wilson was declined in health. They know darn well that the second Russ Brandon openly admits anything to do with the football side, everyone would storm the castle... and Brandon knows that would all but cost him his seat at the adult table... It nearly did on the eve of "hiring the GM of Football" Buddy Nix (another GM agreeable to the inner circle). When things go far south, they will just throw Whaley or Ryan under the bus and make 50% of the fan base believe they are the source of 100% of the problems.

 

Even in that article you posted, Brandon claims to be separated from football... then goes on about how Butler, Donahoe, and Levy were showing him the ropes on the football side, sending him on scouting trips, teaching him the CBA, etc... The guy was GM for awhile. He was the guy they sent to meet with Shanahan. He was the man leading the "no stone unturned" search that brought the Marrone era. He was in on the Mario Williams courting as well as Rex Ryan. Pretty much everything that happens, he is front and center. He is president of the team, he is definitely involved, and very likely has been involved for a decade or more.

 

Wilson wanted him involved because he was inner-circle and paid respect to him, as well as the bottom line. They thought Levy being brought in to show him the ropes would have been enough for the fans to accept him as GM. They were wrong, and they put him behind a shill in Nix. Whaley also was shown how things are over a few years and I believe he has accepted the way of the organization in exchange for his opportunity.

 

 

 

I really don't care so much that the "fire Brandon"... I am in the camp that thinks they should have hired someone to build the football program, essentially walling Brandon off. When Pegula feels like this current structure has run its course, I hope we don't see another 'outsourcing' of blame with Rex or Whaley. I hope we see the major overhaul. Someone who knows what they are doing needs to be empowered. This idea always gets belittled and labeled 'czar'... but honestly, what is salvageable. The team isnt very good, deep, some pieces are aging, no QB, and they are tickling the salary cap with some big commitments.

Edited December 7, 2016 by May Day 10

[yungmack]

How exactly is Brandon the core of the problem? Seriously. He runs the business side of things, not the football side. How would replacing him improve the Bills football fortunes? If the problem is Whaley (which it's not), he can suggest firing him, but that is really a decision for the Pegulas. If the problem is Rex (which it is), that again is up to the Pegulas, probably with the input of Brandon and Whaley.

 

Getting rid of Brandon accomplishes precisely nothing in regards to the actual quality of football played by the Bills. It would be like firing the busboy in a restaurant because the chef sucks.

[26CornerBlitz]

How exactly is Brandon the core of the problem? Seriously. He runs the business side of things, not the football side. How would replacing him improve the Bills football fortunes? If the problem is Whaley (which it's not), he can suggest firing him, but that is really a decision for the Pegulas. If the problem is Rex (which it is), that again is up to the Pegulas, probably with the input of Brandon and Whaley.

 

Getting rid of Brandon accomplishes precisely nothing in regards to the actual quality of football played by the Bills. It would be like firing the busboy in a restaurant because the chef sucks.

 

The Pegulas hate Brandon so much they made him the President of the Sabres too.

[K-9]

Yep because newspaper articles and team PR releases definitely tell us the truth on how the team operates. The entire FO needs cleaned out. End of story. It doesn't matter who does what, it simply hasn't worked. Rusty will get another job. We don't need to feel sorry for him.

He should be removed from operations because he's basically a really good used car salesmen. He has no football credentials.

"Rusty" (that is funny, btw), has transcended the front office in the larger scope of PGE. His role governs the entire operation, from the Bills to the Sabres to their minor league teams to Harbor Center to their country and western record label, etc. He will be involved in doing the cleaning vs. being cleaned out himself.

 

He's a permanent fixture in the Pegula empire and you and others should probably reconcile that psychologically.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

"Rusty" (that is funny, btw), has transcended the front office in the larger scope of PGE. His role governs the entire operation, from the Bills to the Sabres to their minor league teams to Harbor Center to their country and western record label, etc. He will be involved in doing the cleaning vs. being cleaned out himself.

 

He's a permanent fixture in the Pegula empire and you and others should probably reconcile that psychologically.

I understand you made be right, but I'm not going to "reconcile" it until these teams win. Neither the Sabres or the Bills are winning. At some point they have to win. Rusty might be in tight with the Pegulas, but when people as wealthy as them don't achieve results relationships go out the window. I just don't think things will get better if there isn't more devotion to winning as opposed to marketing junk. Brandon is part of that culture, and it needs to end. P.S The Pegulas owning a country label shows what a joke that genre has become.

[vorpma]

 

What do the Bills do to brand themselves to convince people to buy tickets? They don't convey anything to me that gets me excited or makes me want to buy a ticket. In fact, I have lived in a few other NFL cities and their productions via television ads/shows, billboards, giveaways in Newspapers, etc put anything the Bills do to shame.

 

 

People go to Bills games because it is the NFL, Bills tickets are laughably cheap, and Ralph Wilson Stadium is a lawless and fun atmosphere. It also helps that the team teeters around mediocre. One winning season would accomplish what 50 Russ Brandons could as far as hype and demand go.

You are right on my friend; stand by to get run off this board!

Didn't the Bills of early 90's have a record for consecutive Sellouts. Win Games and they will come. Win Games and you will have lines of Corps looking to get into executive seats. Play some meaningful Dec and Jan games and any of us can sell tickets.

Yes! Everyone wants to touch a winner!