The Great National Health Care Debate Has Opened!

[Tiberius]

What is it you want the Republican Congress and President to do about the following programs:

 

Obamacare -- Complete repeal? Or will it actually be replaced by something that does not kick 20 million people off of their insurance

 

Medicare -- Vouchers with less care?

 

Medicaid -- Its for the poor, so doesn't look good for this program

 

Veteran's Administration -- Have not heard of any plans yet

 

 

I have this hope that somehow we come out of this all with a better system overall. Who knows?

 

 

 

[Nanker]

Wonder if the Republicans will shut out the Democrats from having a voice in the changes.

[DC Tom]

I'm just happy we'll actually have a Congressional discussion about it.

[Nanker]

I look forward to an open discourse on the issues. Not sure how the MSM will cover it, but it's a discussion that is long overdue. We could use a leader like Daniel Patrick Moynihan right about now.

[B-Large]

Wonder if the Republicans will shut out the Democrats from having a voice in the changes.

 

Republicans were at the Healthcare Summit discussion, John Boehner brought a blank sheet of 8 1/2 x 11 paper, held it up and just kept saying start over. they got a chance at input, they just weren't that interested in doing anything... and didn't.

Edited December 2, 2016 by B-Large

[Nanker]

The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, was passed in the senate on December 24, 2009, and passed in the house on March 21, 2010. It was signed into law by President Obama on March 23rd, 2010.

The "Summit" happened on February 25th. The Republicans wanted to start over from scratch. Stretch Pelosi would have none of it.

 

Following is the text of Boehner’s remarks:

“American families are struggling with health care. We all know it. The American people want us to address this in a responsible way. So I really do say thanks for having us all here.

“I think our job on behalf of our constituents, and on behalf of the American people, is to listen. And I spend time in my district. I spend time a lot of places. I have heard an awful lot. I can tell you the thing that I have heard more than anything over the last six or seven months is that the American people want us to scrap this bill. They have said it loud. They have said it clear. Let me help understand why.

 

"The first thing is we’ve heard from the two budget directors about our fiscal condition. We have Medicare that's going broke. We have Social Security going broke. We have Medicaid that's bankrupting not only the federal government but all the states and yet, here we are having a conversation about creating a new entitlement program that will bankrupt our country. And it will bankrupt our country. It's not that we can't do health insurance reform to help bring down costs to help save the system. This bill, this 2,700-page bill will bankrupt our country.

“Secondly, Mr. President, I'd point out that this right here is a dangerous experiment. We may have problems in our health care system, but we do have the best health care system in the world, by far. And having a government takeover of health care – and I believe that's what this is – is a dangerous experiment with the best health care system in the world that I don't think we should do.

 

“So why did I bring this bill today? I'll tell you why I brought it. We have $500 billion in new taxes here over the next ten years. At a time when our economy is struggling, the last thing we need to do is to be raising taxes on the American people. Secondly, we've got $500 billion worth of Medicare cuts here. I agree with Kent Conrad. We need to deal with the problem of Medicare, but if we are going to deal with a problem of Medicare and find savings in Medicare, why don't we use it to extend the life of the Medicare program as opposed spending that $500 billion creating a new entitlement program.

“But it's not just the taxes, Mr. President, or the Medicare cuts. You’ve got the individual mandate here, which I think is unwise and I do believe is unconstitutional. You’ve got an employer mandate here. It says that employers: you’ve got to provide health insurance to the American people or you're going to pay this tax. It's going to drive up the cost of employment at a time when we have over 10 percent or near 10 percent unemployment in America.

“And beyond that, a lot of employers are going to look at this and say, well, I'll pay the tax and they are going to dump their employees into the so-called exchange because in five years every American is going to have to go to the exchange to get their health care. And who's going to design health care bill offered under this exchange under this bill? The federal government's going to design every single health care bill in America within five years once this bill were to pass. I could go on and on and on.

“Let me just make one other point. For 30 years, we've had a federal law that says that we're not going to have taxpayer funding of abortions. We have had this debate in the House. It was a very serious debate. But in the House, the House spoke. The House upheld the language we have had in law for 30 years that there will be no taxpayer funding of abortions. This bill that we have before us, and there was no reference to the issue in your outline, Mr. President, begins – for the first time in 30 years – allows the taxpayer funding of abortion.

 

“So Mr. President, what we have been saying for a long time is, let's scrap the bill. Let's start with a clean sheet of paper on those things that we can agree on. If we bring down the cost of health insurance, we can expand access.

 

“Mr. President, I told you, the day after – maybe it was the day you were sworn in as president – that I would never say anything outside of the room that I wouldn’t say inside the room. I have been patient. I have listened to the debate that’s gone on here, but why can’t we agree on those insurance reforms that we have talked about? Why can’t we come to an agreement on purchasing across states lines? Why can’t we do something about the biggest cost driver, which is medical malpractice in the defensive medicine that doctors practice. Let’s start with a clean sheet of paper, and we can actually get somewhere, and we can get it into law in the next several months.”

[keepthefaith]

You probably have to repeal the damn thing as the process of modifying 2000 pages of this cluster !@#$ and hoping it makes any sense is probably greater than starting over and including the few good aspects of the monstrosity.

[North Buffalo]

You probably have to repeal the damn thing as the process of modifying 2000 pages of this cluster !@#$ and hoping it makes any sense is probably greater than starting over and including the few good aspects of the monstrosity.

Which is easy to do if you have and pass simultaneously a replacement that makes sense and covers all those who want health insurance. If we end up with worse coverage, non coverage or unaffordable coverage under proposed changes then it will be a huge cluster. ACA brought much more people into the system and now they have expectations of coverage. Denial won't work this time around and you think the protests are bad now. Single payer could result in 2 years as a reaction to such a repeal. Agreed ACA has plenty of problems, but it isn't the biggest problem. Dealing effectively with insurance cos that have everyone by the cahoonas and by demands from the public for healthcare coverage for everyone as "right" is a huge undertaking.

Edited December 3, 2016 by North Buffalo

[Nanker]

You probably have to repeal the damn thing as the process of modifying 2000 pages of this cluster !@#$ and hoping it makes any sense is probably greater than starting over and including the few good aspects of the monstrosity.

You mean actually take the Boehner approach. I see...

[Dorkington]

Ideally, I fully support some system of universal healthcare.

 

That being said, I don't trust the US to do it, due to the revolving door between for-profit interests and Congress.

[Nanker]

Ideally, I fully support some system of universal healthcare.

 

That being said, I don't trust the US to do it, due to the revolving door between for-profit interests and Congress.

Here's a system: Everyone gets one band aid a year. [/endofcoverage]

That good enough?

[Tiberius]

Since the Republican states, or most of them anyway, refused to accept Medicaid expansion because it was from Obama, I wouldn't be totally surprised if this block grant thing the GOP is talking about ends up being more extensive than the ACA. Trump care will be an expansion of the health care system. Could happen

[IDBillzFan]

 

Republicans were at the Healthcare Summit discussion, John Boehner brought a blank sheet of 8 1/2 x 11 paper, held it up and just kept saying start over. they got a chance at input, they just weren't that interested in doing anything... and didn't.

 

Was that the same summit where Paul Ryan had a copy of the ACA to discuss it and Obama called it a prop?

 

Or the same summit where he told John McCain to give it up because he lost?

 

Or was it the summit where he thought having a beer on the WH lawn would make people forget that he thinks cops are stupid?

 

I always get these Obama summits confused.

Edited December 3, 2016 by LABillzFan

[TH3]

Was that the same summit where Paul Ryan had a copy of the ACA to discuss it and Obama called it a prop?

 

Or the same summit where he told John McCain to give it up because he lost?

 

Or was it the summit where he thought having a beer on the WH lawn would make people forget that he thinks cops are stupid?

 

I always get these Obama summits confused.

Well the good thing is Obama is gone, the GOP controls the federal government and mosr state governments....

[DC Tom]

 

Was that the same summit where Paul Ryan had a copy of the ACA to discuss it and Obama called it a prop?

 

Or the same summit where he told John McCain to give it up because he lost?

 

Or was it the summit where he thought having a beer on the WH lawn would make people forget that he thinks cops are stupid?

 

I always get these Obama summits confused.

 

Was it before or after Obama told Republicans that they could sit in back because they were just along for the ride?

[B-Large]

I'd like someone to explain the notion of "buying insurance across state lines" and how it benefits our nation. our health insurance companies are national companies who pick and chose which States to do business in... the power now lies in each State to run their own insurance regulatory structure, will the Federal Government now take over that power?

Edited December 4, 2016 by B-Large

[Alaska Darin]

I'd like someone to explain the notion of "buying insurance across state lines" and how it benefits our nation. our health insurance companies are national companies who pick and chose which States to do business in... the power now lies in each State to run their own insurance regulatory structure, will the Federal Government now take over that power?

The current model is a monopolistic practice that drives up cost significantly.

 

http://www.theihcc.com/en/communities/health_plans_managed_care/will-buying-health-insurance-across-state-lines-re_h26f1qwe.html

[DC Tom]

The current model is a monopolistic practice that drives up cost significantly.

 

http://www.theihcc.com/en/communities/health_plans_managed_care/will-buying-health-insurance-across-state-lines-re_h26f1qwe.html

 

 

 

If I could buy insurance from another state, where regulations are less onerous, I might not be forced to buy a policy that covers drug-abuse counseling.

 

Yeah...except you're still subject to the regulations of your state. That's not a "buying insurance across state lines" solution, it's a "deregulating insurance to the lowest common denominator" solution - if North Dakota's regulatory structure results in lower health insurance premiums than Delaware's, a Delaware resident isn't just buying health insurance from a North Dakota provider that violates Delaware regulations.

 

So call it what it is: either deregulation of the insurance industry, or regulation at the federal level and taking the regulatory power away from the states. And keep in mind that the former almost certainly involves the entire industry and not just health insurance, which is far more complex than anyone expects; whereas the latter has already been tried in a half-assed fashion and shown to be far more complex than anyone expected.

[Tiberius]

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/12/aca-repeal-numbers/509777/

 

The goal of the Affordable Care Act was to whittle down the number of uninsured Americans and bring order to the Wild West of the individual insurance market. According to a new analysis by the Urban Institute think tank, if the law is repealed like Republican leaders want, both of those things would be undone. In fact, the uninsured rate would likely be even worse than it was before the law was passed.

If Obamacare is repealed, which Republican lawmakers say is their plan, health care in America would look a lot like it did a decade ago, with policies that are expensive and hard to come by unless they’re obtained through an employer. Nearly 30 million people would quickly become uninsured, the report authors find—the majority of them from the working class.

 

Trump and the GOP now own this. So while taking away people's health insurance--and health care--they will also be helping the wealthy, who did just fantastic under Obama, get even richer. Enjoy your Medicare voucher!

[Nanker]

It'll be better than the $3,000 + additional tax I had to pay this year for someone else's abortions.

[Gary M]

It'll be better than the $3,000 + additional tax I had to pay this year for someone else's abortions.

 

Don't forget you (and the Nuns) paid for the pill she forgot to take also!!!

[Tiberius]

It'll be better than the $3,000 + additional tax I had to pay this year for someone else's abortions.

That's bad! Was this individual tax or a business tax?

[keepthefaith]

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/12/aca-repeal-numbers/509777/

 

Trump and the GOP now own this. So while taking away people's health insurance--and health care--they will also be helping the wealthy, who did just fantastic under Obama, get even richer. Enjoy your Medicare voucher!

Yep because that is going to be the Republican plan. Repeal it and let whatever happens, happens.

Edited December 8, 2016 by keepthefaith

[Nanker]

That's bad! Was this individual tax or a business tax?

Individual. I noticed it this year. Haven't had the stomach to look back to my 2014 filing. That and the alternative minimum tax had me fuming.

[Tiberius]

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/310902-trumps-pick-for-budget-chief-could-signal-major-shift-on-medicare

 

Trump's cost cutter look to be taking aim at government programs that aid the middle class. Get in line to collect your government voucher for Medicare before they run out. They say they were after Obamacare, but they want more than that. And since socialist security might require tax increases, it is to be cut also.

[Tiberius]

And it looks like Donald wants nothing to do with entitlement deform

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/reince-priebus-donald-trump-doesnt-want-to-meddle-with-medicare-social-security/

 

Medicare and Social Security to be left alone

[ExiledInIllinois]

Of course!

 

Nothing will happen, change. It's why every single Fed co-worker of mine voted for Trump... Or the AA guy who didn't vote @ all. Nothing will change, even with a drastically different campaign preaching new boss trying to get votes, elected, power, and immunity.

 

One side of the tree will get shaken, leaves will fall and get caught & stroked back in.